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  1. Jason
  2. Montage
  3. Saturday, 10 February 2018
For the most part, the MIDI Data Format and MIDI Data Table in the Montage Data List has not been fully updated when new features are added each firmware release. One example for version 2.0 is "montage_en_dl_f0.pdf" page 184: the table which lists MSB/LSB+Pgm No. for each bank. This table is identical to the previous version. There are now more than 16 * 128 = 2,048 Preset Performances - which means the MSB/LSB had to gain slots to fit the new content. I've seen a post from BM which goes into some cursory detail - but the docs need to stay current and match the firmware. Incomplete docs lead to poor support - and sometimes the docs can be wrong if not updated (not finding BM's post at the moment - so not sure if the MSB/LSB had to "shift around" for many of the banks or if the choice was to preserve the current User and Library MSB/LSB and "tack on" after the previous mapping the extra slots (causing non-contiguous ranges). Yamaha isn't a fan of non-contiguous so I'm thinking the entire memory map got swizzled - which may match part of the reason why Song & Perf isn't working from previous backup save files. That and an oversight not to do a conversion on the MSB/LSB saved in the song's "tag" for the Performance location.

According to this post: https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/montage-does-not-listen-to-midi-program-changes-anymore-after-update-to-os-v2-0

What was previously the first "page" of the User bank, "User 1" MSB/LSB = 63/80, is now MSB/LSB = 63/32. The details are a bit suspect because if the user area moved - I'm not sure why the program number would change considering the user area didn't grow that I'm aware of. Note: program number detail which is alluded to is in the linked message. Documentation would help nail this down.

I did find the mapping documented here:

http://www.moessieurs.com//download/n2/MSB_LSB_PC_Montage_OS2.pdf

But the manuals need to stay current - there are other items which are not updated from previous and current firmware changes as well.
Responses (6)
Joe Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Yes
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 1
Jean Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
@ Jason:

Page 184 of datalist is inaccurate, but pages 187-188 gives the good infos.

As far as I know, the rest of doc seems accurate.
For example we have new arpeggios, few people talk about it, and the datalist show it.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 2
Jason Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the pointer. My reference has always been the table for this information. Page 184 as inaccurate needs to be fixed in order to clear up ambiguity of information mis-match. Since I have my information from other sources - the goal wasn't to find this particular one piece of information but to point out that the document has errors or omissions which need to be shored up in order to be current.

Here is some data which possibly could be new information in the MIDI memory map:

documentation not found (or maybe these are not MIDI mapped) ...

2) V2.0 (System): Keep Current Tempo Flag (aka global Tempo) - Not found - Maybe this is not saved in MIDI memory map?
3) V2.0 (System): Keep Current A/D Volume Flag (aka global A/D) - Not found - Maybe this is not saved in MIDI memory map?
4) V2.0 (Performance): New variables for keeping user audition information in Performance (User Performance Bank) - missing - seems like it should be in the 30h/4Dh area
7) V1.5 (Performance): Favorite icon flag for each performance - missing - "favorite" doesn't show up in data list (searched for "fav" as well)
8) V1.5 (Performance): Super Knob link on/off - couldn't find detail on how link on/off is saved
9) V1.5 (System): USB Monitor Volume (aka USB Input Volume) - didn't find with search for "USB" or "Digital" - maybe not MIDI address mapped?
10) V1.5 (System): Scene CC (Scene Control Change Number) - could not find (searched for "control" and "CC";)
11) V1.5 (System): Live Set Font Size (Normal/Large) - could not find (search for "font" and "large";)
12) V1.2 (System): Super Knob CC (Control Change) Number - could not find (searched for "control" and "CC";)
13) V1.2 (System): Arp Bypass and Keyboard Control lock -- not sure if these are saved through reboots may not be MIDI mapped - could not find (searched for "bypass" and "lock";) - maybe this is not saved?
14) V1.2 (Performance): Shows USB Monitor and USB Assign Monitor volumes as Performance-level data - could not find (searched for "monitor";)
15) V1.1 (System): MIDI I/O mode as multi or single and MIDI I/O Channel - could not find (searched for "single";) - not saved through power cycles?

documentation was found ...

1) V2.0 (System): Live Set Startup Slot Number (initial live set bank, initial live set page, initial live set slot) (0h/0h/20h-0h/0h/22h) [OK]
5) V1.6 (Effect): Spiralizer effects have been added to the data list [OK]
6) V1.5 (Effect): Rotary speaker, uni comp, parallel comp, presence effects have been added to the data list [OK]
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 3
Jean Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jason

Of course they are hiden or omits parameters.

Super knob control number is found at 00 00 17 (hexa)
Favorites are mapped in tables and are not inside performance or arpeggio or waveform
etc.

I don't know all parameters, but I think it is useful only for programmer.

This is not the case of msb, lsb pc, list of perfs, arpeggios, waveforms, etc useful to many.

In my case I am happy if I know how to extract by Midi names of Libs, Arpeggios, Waveforms, etc as It was possible for Motif/Moxf.
I think it is not implemented.

A dedicated port for communication between Montage and an editor was also useful (and exist on Motif/Moxf)

A technical doc on the format of X7? file was also very useful for programmers.

But for now, I think Yamaha don't want to divulge these infos.

So we must do the "Champollion".
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 4
Lex Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Jason.

Yes I faced the renumbered User Files. Luckily I didn't update just before a gig. (good practice i thing ;) )

I got this answer of Yamaha so I have to renumber all my MIDI data in Setlistmaker.

Yamaha Reply:

The bank system was reorganized to open up the amount of memory allocation in Montage. Ultimately this will be a good thing but it has caused an issue with the re-numbering of the user banks from previous versions to OS v2.0. For the time being this new situation is permanent so you will have to change the bank numbers.

Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 5
Jason Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Note that error in revision F0 of the data list has been corrected in the recent update of the data list (revision g0).

Page 184 of datalist is inaccurate


... now fixed.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. Montage
  3. # 6
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