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  1. Oliver
  2. MONTAGE
  3. Saturday, 28 March 2020
Hi. I’m struggling a little with guitar arps- when I play a chord , I hear a sort of brief clang of notes in the chord playing at the time I press the keys.
What am I doing wrong?
Responses (5)
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi. I’m struggling a little with guitar arps- when I play a chord , I hear a sort of brief clang of notes in the chord playing at the time I press the keys.
What am I doing wrong?
First thing is, you are giving us no information about the Performance (name) or the Arpeggio (name). There are over 2700 Performances and over 10,000 Arpeggios. Over 1700 of them in the Guitar category.

Not all Guitar Arpeggios can be used on just any guitar sound. For example, an Arp Phrase that has “Mg” in the name (short for “Mega”... ) are designed specifically for Guitar Parts with “MEGA” in the name. These have special notes mapped at specific velocities and/or above and below the normal range of a natural guitar. These special sound EFX can be rakes, zings, fret noises, scrapes, knocks, and what could be described as a brief clang of notes - and can be just weird when assigned to a sound not looking for these sound EFX.

But without giving anyone the name of the guitar sound or the name of the assigned Arp Phrase, anyone reading this cannot help you.
Ask yourself:
Is it a factory sound? Or is one I programmed myself?
If it is a factory sound then tell us which one, and we can try it and see if we hear a clang of notes
If it is not a factory sound then it is likely because you made an assignment that does not work.
There are ways to Note Limit the range of the Part, and perhaps better choices of Arp Phrases to apply.

Other causes could be linked to MIDI routing — when connected IN/OUT to a DAW for example, it is possible to get strange behavior if routing is in correct.

Let us know. There are far, far too many possible combinations of Guitars and Guitar Arps to tell you specifically even IF you are doing something wrong. And without details about what else is connected (if anything) we can’t say the definitive cause.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the quick reply.
I was using the performance Acoustic Jam.
It’s like when you play a chord, you get a strum of the notes in addition to the arp. It’s more obvious to the ear if I play a quick broken chord and less obvious if I play the whole chord exactly on the beat.
It seems to happen on all chord arps (“..._C”), and for all guitars.
What I’m hoping to achieve is the smooth transition you get with the picking type arps like the default arp 1 for 8 Amps & a TC where the notes you press are only sounded when they come round in the arp no matter when you press them.
:-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the details, it really helps.

Let’s start with “Acoustic Jam”. Arpeggio guitar in left hand, Normal play in the right hand.
Select Part 1
Press [EDIT]
The top left of screen will tell you where you are “Edit - Part 1 - Common”
Touch “Arpeggio” > “Common”
Let’s focus on the Arp HOLD options... only one of the three can be active (green).
ArpHold.png
The Arp Phrase in the Left hand of “Acoustic Jam” is set to strumming chords and set to “Arp Hold”... HOLD = ON. In order to ‘play’ (perform) this guitar under these conditions takes a degree of musical timing accuracy... to reproduce the phrase as intended you must enter the controlling chord quality information at musically appropriate times within the resulting 4 measure Phrase. If you are entering controlling information at a rhythmic sub-division of the time where the phrase has notes sounding, you will hear what amounts to a "muffed chord" (in other words: it is your fault...) Under these circumstances neatness counts!

We often describe when discussing Arp Phrase creation, they are as much about the rhythm as they are about the notes.
The behavior of Arp Phrase will change by setting Hold = Off.

The Arp Phrase in “8 Amps and TC” is more finger picking and, significantly, it is set so there is no Hold function active, Hold is “Off”... lift your hand and the Arp Phrase stops. Each time you trigger a Key, the Arp Phrase starts anew. You cannot trigger a note inaccurately within the resulting 3 measure Phrase because the Phrase begins anew each time you press the Key. This is due to Arp Hold = Off

Extra Credit:
We would be remiss if we didn’t explain the third Hold option “Sync-Off”. If this is the setting, the sound requires you to manually hold the Key down... that is the Phrase stops when you lift your hand... but the Phrase keeps timing and when you re-engage a Key wherever in the Phrase it is, as referencing the clock, the Phrase sounds. Synchronization with the Tempo and beat count, is guaranteed, but the sound is Off when you release the note. The Phrase does not begin at the top each time — it simply picks up wherever it would have reached by that time.
You may need to set the CLICK, or add a drum groove, to fully appreciate “Sync-Off”... instead of restarting the phrase with KeyOn, the Phrase is running in sync with the clock, the KeyOn simply allows audio to occur. Peek-a- boo.

Hope that helps - each of the Arp Hold options influences how the Phrase behaves ...

Extra Credit 2:
The old Motif XF converted Performance “Double Dip the Funk” is an ideal example of “Sync-Off”, Rhythm Guitars are split left and right hand... you create different guitar riffs by how long you hold down a chord on each side of the split... staccato play creates different results... the phrases are always advancing, you control *when* they sound!

Arpeggios require a musician to control them... A Pattern that is prerecorded to a Sequencer plays back exactly the same, every time, whether you push play or your cat jumps up on the keyboard and touches the play button. However, Arps can require a musician - one that understands how to count and how to trigger the correct notes to configure the proper musical phrase (Chord quality, one that plays in tune with the composition). Controlling Arps is musical, starting a Sequence is, well, not.
Attachments (1)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you - much appreciated “extra credit” too.
I can get the timing perfect some of the time!
I am going to suggest in ideascape an “arp quantise” function to help with this timing like normal quantise helps with recording, or pattern playback.
:-)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you - much appreciated “extra credit” too.
I can get the timing perfect some of the time!
I am going to suggest in ideascape an “arp quantise” function to help with this timing like normal quantise helps with recording, or pattern playback.
:-)
No, thanks! Not necessary, that parameter is found among the Arp parameters, it is called Arp “Sync Quantize” and it does just that. Before making the suggestion we recommend utilizing what already exists, first.

When recording Arpeggios (transferring Arp Phrases to MIDI events) it is recommended to use the Pattern Recorder’s “KEY ON START” = On and “LOOP” = Off this will automate punch in and punch out, rendering a perfect transfer.

Use Arp “Sync Quantize” to auto correct your controlling information.... when playing with Arp in real-time.
See the screenshot I posted above, just to the right of the “Arp Part” and ”Arp Master” options is the ”Sync Quantize” — set in that example to ”120” clocks (or a 16th note); this is usually fine for most musicians, but set as you require.

From the tutorials in the MONTAGE “Learn” area:
On the PART > "Arpeggio" > "Common" screen you can see how the arpeggio has been set to respond.
ARP SYNC QUANTIZE - Sets a value for the accuracy of feeding chord intelligent information to the ARPEGGIATOR. If set to a value like 240 clock pulses (an eighth note, to you and me) then you need only be within an eighth note of the downbeat to correctly have the arpeggio change at the top of the next measure. With computer-based/chip-based artificial intelligence, you can be ANY THING BUT LATE. It is better to feed the information to the technology prior to the downbeat. If you are late (musically, late) you will hear the error as the technology tries to accommodate you. If however, you feed the F7#9 chord within an eight note of when you wish to hear it, the 240 setting will make you sound great, immediately! It QUANTIZES only the start of the ARPEGGIO PHRASE - it does NOT, change the timing of the phrase itself, just the "START" of the phrase. This means if you are late by an eighth note, the phrase will remain clock shifted exactly 240 clock ticks behind the beat!

Extra Credit: Using Arpeggios means KeyOn Start.
This means, as player, you are responsible for causing that trigger event... So your timing counts. The "technology" offers the following help:
_ the "Change Timing" parameter found among the ARP EDIT parameters
_ Arp “Sync Quantize” value parameter found as a Arp Common Edit parameter

CHANGE TIMING: Determines the actual timing at which the Arpeggio Type is switched when you select another Type during Arpeggio playback. When set to “realtime,” the Arpeggio type is switched immediately. When set to “measure,” the Arpeggio type is switched at the top of the next measure.

“Measureless is useful for performing
“Realtime” is useful when auditioning
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
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