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  1. natalini
  2. Vanity Monster Sherlock Holmes The Voice
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Thursday, 04 July 2019
the pitchbend of the montage is stepped, this default is even more obvious when you use an external controller for gliding the beast. it is impossible to get a natural bending as you can hear each halftone in the coarse. i cannot figure out why this bad behavior, a such limitation in a professional priced device. it have been already some judicious comments in other threads about this issue. it looks like a smooth bending is not important for montage owners and designers or maybe is there a technical issue at the core of the montage? now that there are some interest from rolli mpe world toward yamaha montage, is this dysfunction does not matter to them to ? that is a pity, montage with his sonic possibilities and the ability to routes controllers should be the best candidate for mpe controllers. i was dreaming to control the montage with the Linnstrument but not be able to get a true bending is juste a severe limitation and a desperation.
Responses (73)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ribbon has only ever had 128 output values so ribbon is going to have limits that pitch bend may not. Pitch bend (MIDI command 0xEn) is only tied to the pitch "wheel" controller and cannot be assigned to other controllers like ribbon. If you want ribbon to not step, you have to limit the range since you'll "only" get 128 different values of pitch offset using the ribbon controller.

Summary statement: ribbon controller as affecting pitch offsets is a different animal than pitch wheel controlling pitch bend.

Interesting note, thanks!
Come to think of it, there is quite a range on the ribbon by default, so I will try limiting the range and test to see what the range limit is for it to be smooth.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 41
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation


One of the good things is we have regular updates to the Montage OS versions that constantly add new features based on customer feedback. I see that you have found the ideascale forum: That is a good place to register your requests. We do listen.


Nagging is usually not my thing, but...
Requests won’t keep coming if updates don’t get out there in the field and only stay inside.
A year has past without a single move forward, just saying... :(
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 42
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
+1
Sad but true
Not much going on here.
Or only bug fixing and new Performance???


Nagging is usually not my thing, but...
Requests won’t keep coming if updates don’t get out there in the field and only stay inside.
A year has past without a single move forward, just saying... :(
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 43
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have been struggling with a Roli Seaboard and trying to get the glide working with Montage. The Roli sends pitch bend messages for glide, i.e. when you move your finger between notes.

Despite matching the pitch bend range with the Roli and Montage performance, I just could not seem to get the glide to be quite right - and it looks like I came across this same issue i.e. the Montage is ignoring the LSB. With a pitch bend range set to 24 on both Roli and Montage, this does not give enough precision to land on a note that we glide to.

I used Logic Pro to send pitch bend messages that I would have expected to move the frequency up one semitone and used a chromatic
guitar tuner to measure the frequency output by the Montage. The Montage frequency is too low - because the LSB has been ignored.

In conclusion I decided to shelve my attempts at Roli Montage integration pending a Montage update to solve this issue.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 44
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have just tested the pitch bend with the 3.0 update and it looks like this issue has not been resolved. i.e. the Montage is still ignoring the LSB
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 45
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Blake's acknowledgement of the issue to pass along to the engineering team was likely fairly late in the firmware development cycle.

Also, I'm wondering when MIDI 2.0 (if ever) will migrate from the custom firmware already developed for the MIDI 2.0 plug-and-play events to public firmware. Which would be a good time to fix/alter this. Which means there may already be firmware with this "fix" in it - just not on the roadmap for us commoners at the moment.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 46
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Blake's acknowledgement of the issue to pass along to the engineering team was likely fairly late in the firmware development cycle.

I think the good news about this is that they are likely already planning more fixes, enhancements, features for another future OS release at some point!!
Maybe that survey from a few months back that asked about a VA/VL engine might be the next big feature..!? If not, I feel relatively good that they will likely have another OS update in the future with fixes for the Pitch Bend LSB issue and maybe some other features we request via ideascale.

Here's to optimistically hoping, but not holding my breath! ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 47
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I have no doubt that they will fix the LSB issue, as it has been acknowleged by Blake. Just hope it comes in a small interim release... In the meantime, I can't decide whether to put my Roli in the attic or on ebay :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 48
Blake
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just to let you all know: The development team is aware of this. I have been in meetings for the last part of the week and we discussed this issue along with many others. We ABSOLUTELY do listen to you and we most certainly do our best to implement reasonable requests. OS v3.0 introduced the Pattern Sequencer to the Performance Recorder. This feature alone was among the top requests from our customers. The new Hybrid Mode and Keyboard Control features were also added, along with other cool things like new DSP effects, Global Tuning and USB MIDI host.

I can assure you that there is more to come. I will say it again: We really do listen. Implementing these requests take time, and apologies if they cannot happen as fast as many would like.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 49
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Blake,
This is off topic, but I am wondering this every day of the last 3 years now; and as you spoke to the development team: Is it possible to change the fixed midi channel implementation? Or is the midi channel of the parts used (abused) as an identifier of the parts? If the latter; can the development team introduce a new (extra) identifier, so that we are allowed to change the midi receive channel of each part?
Thank you for replying.
Jeroen
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 50
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Just to let you all know: The development team is aware of this. I have been in meetings for the last part of the week and we discussed this issue along with many others. We ABSOLUTELY do listen to you and we most certainly do our best to implement reasonable requests. OS v3.0 introduced the Pattern Sequencer to the Performance Recorder. This feature alone was among the top requests from our customers. The new Hybrid Mode and Keyboard Control features were also added, along with other cool things like new DSP effects, Global Tuning and USB MIDI host.

I can assure you that there is more to come. I will say it again: We really do listen. Implementing these requests take time, and apologies if they cannot happen as fast as many would like.
Hi Blake, thanks for passing on those requests. I was always convinced that more OS updates would come (based for example on BMS comments in this forum) but it was great to actually see such a major update happening for my 3 year old synth. That’s really amazing!!!

Personally I was really very happy when in one of the interviews you mentioned the scene KbdCtrl state! That’s so useful and clearly shows that Yamaha listened. A small thing but for me a game changer!

And thanks also for the very clear and unambiguous statement that more updates will come. As I wrote in some different thread earlier, I would still buy the Montage again if mine was damaged beyond repair (of course I hope that this will never happen?). With the new update and the knowledge that more is to come that’s even more true!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 51
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
We ABSOLUTELY do listen to you and we most certainly do our best to implement reasonable requests.
I can assure you that there is more to come. I will say it again: We really do listen. Implementing these requests take time, and apologies if they cannot happen as fast as many would like.

Thanks for confirming what I was already 95% positive of!

Now feels like the perfect time to plug my second highest 'Up Voted' ideascale idea in hopes that it might appear in a future update.

Expand KBD CTRL to 16 parts on the Montage/MODX
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expand-KBD-CTRL-to-16-parts-on-the-Montage-MODX/223218-45978


I realize that this may be a difficult one or possibly near impossible, but even if there is a way to allow an additional 4 PARTs to be under KBD CTRL, it would be awesome...12 PART layered strings is better than 8! :D
I just seems like there is so much potential sitting in PART slot 9 - 16, that can't be utilized without a Sequencer or something else...


It would double the amount of playable PARTs on the Synth, making it twice the Monster that it already is!

If pitch bend gets fixed along with something like this, it would mean we could have 16 PARTs with perfect Pitch Bend as opposed to 8 PARTs!! ;)

As usual, I don't expect any of these ideas to absolutely come in an update, I am extremely happy with & enjoying what I already have, and I am not holding my breath, but it never hurts to ask & dream of the potential of being able to layer and split 16 PARTs, all off of one keyboard, which would be Super Powerful!

If anyone likes this idea I posted on yamahasynth.ideascale.com, and would like to see it in a future OS update, please 'Up Vote' my idea, because 'they are definitely listening to us'! ;)

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expand-KBD-CTRL-to-16-parts-on-the-Montage-MODX/223218-45978[/i][/b]

.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 52
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Hi Blake,

I'm using the pattern sequencer and is pretty flexible tool, I admit that is not really immediate to understand but after some test and experience I think that now I understood the philosophy

Is it possible to introduce the event editor in order to change single events?

It was available on the motif and would be a nice add on

Thx
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 53
Blake
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks everyone.

More Parts under Keyboard control: That one might be a bit difficult. However: I think you CAN get what you want in the 8 Parts. You have 8 elements per Part. Most of the multipart sounds do not take advantage of all the element possibilities, routing, control assignments, effects, etc.

Event List Editor: I agree it would be nice to have an event list editor.

Again, the best place to request that and all suggestions is in the Ideascale community.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 54
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks everyone.

More Parts under Keyboard control: That one might be a bit difficult.

I didn't think it was a technical limitation, as I believe people have achieved it through midi. For my part, the biggest issue isn't having simultaneous control over all 16 parts, but that I can only select among parts 1-8. If it's an architectural limitation, it would still be possible to implement the ability to select up to 8 parts among part 1-16 for keyboard control?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 55
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
More Parts under Keyboard control: That one might be a bit difficult. However: I think you CAN get what you want in the 8 Parts. You have 8 elements per Part. Most of the multipart sounds do not take advantage of all the element possibilities, routing, control assignments, effects, etc.


Difficult, but hopefully not Impossible..!?
However, thanks for the idea of utilizing any additional/unused Elements per PART (and effects, Ctrl Assigns, etc.).
Yes, having 16 PARTs under KBD CTRL would be more flexible & preferred; however working with what I've got right now (which is quite awesome!), what you are referring to is basically how I've been programming sounds on the DX7II since over 30 years...taking a combination of Operators from two different Voices and finding an Algorithm that fits, then splicing the two together in one new Voice (then tweaking the h311 out of it :p ). I have already been programming a few new Montage Performances similarly, taking various elements from one PART and adding them to another. This will likely be what I'll do if I run past the 8 PART KBD CTRL limit, thus essentially layering 2 or more PARTs together within 1 PART!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 56
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If I build a 10 story building and have all the light switches on the first 5 floors connected to kite string that can turn off, by pulling the strings from a central location, all of the lights on floors 1-5 or I can pull one string to turn off one light on floors 1-5. It's difficult after I have this set up to get the kite string routed and placed around all the switches on floors 6-10 once all the furniture, people working, etc. are in place. Not impossible - but there does reach a point of diminishing returns. That's my interpretation.

I'd rather have had parts 1-16 enable local keyboard control and ARP support and ... the same as 1-8 from the get-go. But there were some resource constraints that led us here. And I'd rather have keyboard control reflect what's happening more accurately. If I'm selecting a PART with keyboard control OFF - I'd prefer keyboard control to turn off all PARTs except the selected PART which turns its own keyboard control icon orange to show the current selected PART is under "forced" keyboard control. I'd actually prefer a different system altogether - but at least the previous would be easier to document and visually understand.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 57
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
If I build a 10 story building and have all the light switches on the first 5 floors connected to kite string ... Not impossible - but there does reach a point of diminishing returns. That's my interpretation.

That could be dangerous if lightening strikes the kite! ;)


I'd rather have had parts 1-16 enable local keyboard control and ARP support and ... the same as 1-8 from the get-go. But there were some resource constraints that led us here.

I think most of us would prefer that.
Are the resource constraints an obstacle that can't be overcome or is it just a difficult problem for Yamaha to solve, but it could be solved?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 58
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
According to Dom, this has been fixed or at least improved in Montage 3.5 / MODX 2.5. The relevant line the the change log would appear to be this last one:

  • New Performances have been added.
  • The Smart Morph function has been added.
  • New functions have been added to the Pattern Sequencer.
  • MODX files can now be imported.
  • Controllability and playability have been improved.
I'm looking forward to hearing some user feedback on this point. I don't yet have a Montage or MODX, but given my interest in continuous control surfaces (I have an Osmose on preorder and regularly use GeoShred Control on iOS) this issue was something close to a deal-breaker. Very exciting to see this addressed!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 59
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The supplementary manual has more detail specific to the pitch bend - but not really specific enough to know that external MIDI events can utilize this resolution. Thus far, I've seen users proclaim that their physical pitch bend controller is more smooth now - but have not seen reports of MIDI control taking advantage of this.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 60
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