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  1. CassieDennis
  2. Sherlock Holmes
  3. MONTAGE
  4. Friday, 09 September 2016
Bad Mister continues this instructional series for MONTAGE users of all levels. Learn how to take your live performances to the next level with creativity and the power of MONTAGE.

Not read the article yet? Check it out now.

Use this discussion string to ask questions and share ideas.

And stay tuned - more to come!
Responses (16)
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you Cassie for the announcement and Phil for the Article and performance examples.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 1
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I'm asking for help...
As usual I'm translating into Italian the whole set of articles "Mastering Montage" and sometimes I get across some phrases I can't understand... or, they make sense but I can't make a good Italian rendition...

The MONTAGE's current system does not have an "insert" function where subsequent assignments are pushed back, nor a "delete" function where assignments close rank,


I understand how an "insert" function works, but shouldn't old assignments be pushed back when I insert (new) subsequent assignments??

Then I don't understand what does it mean "assignments are closing raank".

Thanks
Michele
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 2
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Delete "assignments lose rank" example (not available):

[1] [2] [3] [4]
[Empty ...]

If could delete slot 2 and rank of later slots would shift:

[1] [3] [4] [Empty ...]

I changed "close rank" to "lose rank" - but also, I could say "delete where later assignments close the gap, filling into the deleted slot".

... and you already understand the insert (also not available):

[1] [2] [3] [4]
[Empty ..]

If could insert a "[0]" before the "[1]" and push back "[1]" and following slots:

[0] [1] [2] [3]
[4] [Empty...]

"Current system" seems to imply a later system is working on adding this as a feature. You cannot be sure - but in the past this language has indicated things to come.

Basically, there is no facility to shift slots in either direction. You either delete-in-place (causing a "hole" in your set list, free to fill with a new assignment) or you add-in-place and this will leave all other slots in their current position. In addition, swap and copy are available. Swap will affect two slots - but will leave alone all other slots.

Here is what does happen when you delete (matching the above delete example, but this time showing what the system does do):

[1] [2] [3] [4]
[Empty ...]

After you delete slot 2:

[1] [Empty] [3] [4]
[Empty ...]

So you are left with a gap (empty slot) between [1] and [3] after deleting slot [2]. The system (currently) has no facility to close this gap automatically and shift [3] [4] into the space of [2] which was deleted.

If you did want to accomplish this, you would need to use the copy or swap.

Swap 2 and 3:
[1] [3] [Empty] [4]
[Empty ...]
Swap 3 and 4
[1] [3] [4] [Empty]
[Empty ...]

If you had many more live set slots to swap - it may be best to leave the empty slot alone (after a delete operation) instead of doing the "swap" or "copy" housekeeping. This is a personal choice.

If you needed to insert a new slot in the middle and have many slots filled after - then this could present a lot of work.

You can manage this by leaving empty slots in the 3rd column so at most you would have to just swap a few slots to insert something new. This would degrade as you add more slots removing your "place holders" - but you may have a better idea of how frequently you add new content and leave more (or less) place holders for your situation. This is just a suggestion of an idea how to use the system and is by no means a rule. It's just a possible work-around for otherwise may be many more button presses to "insert" a new slot.

My usage of Live Set is not concerned with the order. I use Live Set as a list of "favorites" to make recall of performances easier to find vs. category search. They are all of my custom performances for a gig but are not in the band's set list order. I use the "hunt and peck" method to recall performances from the pool of live set. This works for me and I am therefore not impacted by the lack of shifting (delete and shift back / insert and shift forward).

I'd assume use a PC tool for the easiest assignment of order. There are creative ways to make the on-Montage button pressing experience better and I'm sure Yamaha will come up with something great.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 3
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Jason, very kind of yours. Your reply is a manual in a nutshell.

Let's hope Yamaha and/or John Melas will come up with something helpful.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 4
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
The article says:

Here a PERFORMANCE is setup with an acoustic bass for (uninterrupted) left hand walking, and uses the SCENE buttons to switch right hand sounds: Acoustic piano, Electric Piano, Vibraphone, and Jazz Guitar. Scenes are instantaneously recallable conditions. Here we are using it to switch right hand sounds. Part 1 is the left hand bass and the right hand sound is changed in each of the blue SCENE buttons. This is a perfect use for Scene buttons because, presumably you are "walking the bass" with your left hand and need to swap the right hand lead sound while maintaining the walking bass... This is not "seamless transitioning", this is a 'switch', the bass remains sounding, while you change to the next right hand sound.

I am thinking about replacing my MOXF with the MODX and this is a key functionality for me. The problem is this the described approach only works for up to 4 sounds, and I need more like 15 (i.e. a bank of alternate RH sounds that will get me through the entire gig). On the MOXF, I have my RH sounds all set up in a User voice bank, I leave the board in Edit mode, and I change my RH sounds on the fly. It's instantaneous, and the LH bass sound never glitches. The MODX obviously doesn't have the buttons, so I'm wondering about two other ways to possibly replicate this functionality:

1. I could create 15 User Performances (LH bass with different RH sounds) and switch between them (something that didn't work on the MOXF because of the lack of SSS, which meant LH bass could easily glitch), but I have read that there can be a slight delay when switching Performances, which may be problematic. Does anyone have any experience here, in terms of how practical Performance-switching would be for this purpose?

2. Is there a MODX screen that would give me the Edit functionality I had with the MOXF buttons? That is, I'd be playing LH bass, and from a single screen, I could select from 15 User-defined sounds that could be played in the RH part, such that pressing one on-screen button would replace my currently playing RH sound with the one I had just tapped on?

In case anyone is curious, there was a more detailed conversation about this approach to LH bass playing at http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/468866/ - and it worked well on the MOXF and MOXF, and I hope there is something that works at least that well on the MODX.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 5
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You are referencing an article which, at least in the quoted section, does NOT deal with switching Performances. This difference stands out as either a pivot from one idea to another (but not really trying to make them at all equivalent in construction) -- in other words, you understand the concepts and are just trying to "fit the curve" finding a different solution to a similar goal, or a misunderstanding of the article's approach.

One misunderstanding that is clear is in your stated limitation of sounds. Understand that an approach is a general thing and the Performance in the article is a specific example of that general idea. The fact that the Performance in the article only accomplishes 4 "sounds" is not a limitation of the approach, it's a limitation chosen in implementation.

The actual limit (without "tricks" ), assuming a bass PART that consumes one out of the 16 Montage (or MODX) PARTs, is a total of 7 different "sounds" (aka PARTs other than the walking bass PART). That's the maximum because the "sound" (or instrument) that uses the least resources consumes only a single PART. Some instruments ("sounds" ) require more than one PART - but these would not create a Performance with the most you could possibly pack in.

Why 7 in an instrument that can play 16 simultaneous PARTs? Because this example I believe has you playing Montage with the built-in keyboard. If you use an external controller - then it may be possible to play all 16 PARTs.

Also, if you were dead-set on playing 16 PARTs with the built-in Montage (or MODX) piano keys - you could do that. Connect MIDI out to MIDI in and setup CH1-8 as Part Zones with a transmit channel of PART1's transmit = CH9, PART2 transmit = CH10 ... PART8 transmit = CH16. Your split would be setup on all PARTs 2-16 (assuming the bass on PART 1) to filter out the left-hand bass notes using note limit.

The maximum you can switch with SCENE buttons is 8. So using SCENE buttons, you can only address 8 different instruments to add to the bass.

That said, you could also use (in combination) an assignable switch so that the PARTS 2-8 will sound if the switch is OFF and PARTS 9-16 will sound if the switch is ON.

This would require two items to change to set your desired sound: 1) SCENE button (1-8) AND 2) A.SW1 (assignable switch 1) - as an example. There are other ways to accomplish this, but A.SW1/2 allow for XA control where other methods would perhaps deal with volume offsets (like using superknob or modwheel or ribbon or assignable knobs etc).

Also, if you wanted to, you could assign one key on the keyboard to start and stop an ARP - and that ARP could only turn on/off A.SW1 - so you need not even move your hands away from the keyboard to select the other "bank" of 8 "sounds on/off" settings (which leverage A.SW1 setting).

So to summarize (article method):

The maximum number of "sounds" you can play with the RH and using the article method without adding any external controllers or cables is 7 (not 4) in addition to the walking bass. This is due to limitations in simultaneous PARTs you can play with the keyboard piano keys - which is 8.

The maximum "sounds" you can change between (RH PARTs) is 8 (not 4). This is because there are 8 scene buttons (even for MODX - just need to press another button to get to the 2nd bank of 4).

Beyond the article:

If you use an external controller you can play more than 8 PARTs at a time assuming either your keyboard (MODX/Montage) is in single channel MIDI mode or your external MIDI controller can target 16 zones (MIDI channels 1-16) simultaneously.

If you use a loop-back cable from MIDI OUT to MIDI IN (Montage/MODX) - then there is a setup which will allow playing all 16 PARTs simultaneously with the built-in piano keys (no external controller).

There's no way around only 8 SCENE buttons - so you'll have to add another button or controller if you want to address/switch between more than 8 different RH sound "ON" states. A.SW1/2 (assignable switch - previously known as AF1/2) can do this or just about any other controller. Many creative ways you can do this not limited to what's suggested here.

Arpeggios can target controllers - so you could also assign a piano key to expand the number of "sounds" you can turn "ON" beyond the 8 SCENE buttons. Similar to the previous, but just a different way to trigger the same controller suggested.

... Now on to the other part of the message (after clearing up the number of PARTs you can address using the method - including extending the method) ...

You reference another article and ask if that method in a link can be used. The other thread describes at least 3 different ways some keyboard with a fairly "completely different" architecture can achieve a similar goal as the Montage article. The issue here is that two of those methods (on the Motifator link) use an old keyboard with modes neither the Montage nor MODX have. The other method is sort-of-doable (is not employing an unsupported mode) -- but this method is, in my opinion, more cumbersome on Montage/MODX due to lack of random access buttons. What I mean is that one of the Motifator suggestions is to swap out a "part" by calling it up using the BANK (like PRE1, USR1) / GROUP (like A-H) / Number (like 1-16) buttons. Montage/MODX doesn't have these buttons. Montage has something similar - similar layout of buttons - but the usage is not the same. To recall a preset - there is no combination of 3 button presses (like Motif, MOXF, MOX, MO) that can "load up" a "sound". That's just one of the ways (in detail) - and not sure which way you thought was the best.

**IF** all you wanted was, as many of the suggestions in the other article, was to address 7 different RH "sounds" - then the previous discussion covers you. You can do that without anything fancy or any tricks. You can, therefore, match the RESULT (but not method) of the Motifator article.

Now, lets pivot to this thing about using SSS and a different Performance for each instrument. There are a few places where this may fall apart.

1) Say you're holding a bass note for 8 measures. 4/4 time and 8 tied whole notes. Not very practical bass line - your bass also has to have enough sustain to actually ring out that long without decay. Pretend like all of this holds true (for the point). You play the first 2 measures with the first Performance (1st RH sound). Bass (LH) is still held and you switch to the 2nd Performance (2nd RH sound). This works perfectly - the bass continues to ring out. You play this 2nd RH sound for another 4 measures (now you're at measure 6) - and for the last 2 measures - you switch to a 3rd Performance (3rd RH sound). "BOOM" goes the bass. A not-good boom. Note that you cannot hold SSS through more than ONE performance change. Once you switch to the 2nd different performance - SSS will not apply and your bass will cut off. You cannot hold any note through more than one Performance change.

2) Say you have something more reasonable, a walking bass line. You're never going to hold any note for so many measures you're worried about it crossing multiple RH "domains". Then this becomes a question of HOW are you going to switch between Performances? What's your intended method? If you're OK with advancing to the NEXT Performance (meaning your "roadmap" of instruments in terms of sequence is pre-planned) then this method can work OK. If you switch Performances in the middle of holding a note (even just a quarter note) - the bass won't sound interrupted. Assuming you let go of the bass and play a new note before switching to the next Performance - your bass won't cut off. The delay in switching Performances for your RH is about an 8th note. I'm assuming you can deal with stopping playing the RH while changing Performances -- you're going to need that hand to accomplish the switch unless you use a footswitch. You probably should NOT use a footswitch - or decide to tap the footswitch with your hand just to make sure you give the RH a breather enforced by the RH advancing the Performance. You're unlikely going to "beat" the race between Montage being ready for RH notes and your RH getting back to the keys.

HOWEVER ...

If you do not have the sequence of RH instruments pre-planned, then switching between each of your Performances may be cumbersome to go to a certain Performance. OR - if you think you can "spin the dial" until you get to the Performance which is nearby -- then you're going to "kill" SSS (your bass) in doing so. The bass will start to stutter because even shorter notes cannot survive the multiple Performance switches you're going to setup by spinning the dial.

Personally, if 15 RH PARTs is what you want - I would probably use the MIDI loopback method and do all of this in one Performance. As a second, more mainstream, option I would use TWO Performances and drop the requirement for 15 - downsizing to 14 RH Parts. Where the 1st Performance has the same bass in PART1 and then different RH Parts in PART2-8 (all single PART instruments). Then I can go "one up" or "one down" in terms of Performance number and reach all 14 RH parts without having to have much to fool with in terms of getting there.

It'd be nice if a single-tap on the footswitch could be used to advance to the NEXT Performance and a hold or double-tap on the footswitch could be used to go to the PREVIOUS Performance - then a single footswitch would allow for back/forth (yes, there's an ideascale suggestion for this). Alternatively, you could also copy the same 2 Performances over and over until you feel like you have enough to cover any tune you'd want to switch back and forth.

Say:

Performance A had LH part 1=bass, RH parts 2=piano, 3=jazzguit, 4=organ, 5=sax, 6=flute, 7=trumpet, 8=t-bone
Performance B had LH part 1=bass, RH parts 2=synth, 3=fmguit, 4=epiano, 5=synthbass, 6=portamento sine, 7=synth brass, 8=squarewave

Then you could copy these two Performances over and over, in sequence so:

Performance 1=Performance A
Performance 2=Performance B
Performance 3=Performance A
Performance 4=Performance B

... and so on until you have enough so you could really JUST advance to the next Performance over and over which would toggle back and forth between set A and set B. If you had 100 of these, you could switch back and forth 50 times -- which is too many for any realistic tune. However, 100 Performances in your User area is only 16% -- so not an unreasonable amount of space, just to illustrate.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 6
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I am thinking about replacing my MOXF with the MODX and this is a key functionality for me. The problem is this the described approach only works for up to 4 sounds, and I need more like 15 (i.e. a bank of alternate RH sounds that will get me through the entire gig).
Four is all that I needed for a particular song - so the example just had four. That is not the limit of the synth, but a performing decision. I tried to give a *real world* example of one Song. If you need 15 right hands sounds on any one song (wow!), but that can be accomplished in a different fashion. The MODX is one of two of the most programmable/configurable synths ever (MONTAGE being the other)!

I really do not see any major issue to do to accomplish your goal in the MODX - off the top of my head I can think of three or four ways>

One method: You can simply create 15 Performances, then simply advance through them with a Foot Switch... No problem.
Or you can place them in a "Live Set". You can have 256 different Performance in each Live Set listing. You can advance through them with a Foot Switch or select them directly with a touch of button. 16 Performances per Page.

Each Performance will be the same bass sound (if you wish) and a different right hand sound.
You will be limited to 3-Part right hand sounds... in order to use SSS (but don't get hung up on using SSS... that is not the only method to transition sounds (not at all).

You can use the Super Knob and the very flexible Assign Knob system to transition right hand sounds just as easily, keeping the bass the same. This method would allow you to use an FC7 sweep pedal to transition smoothly between right hand sounds while the left remains on the bass.

SCENE buttons can recall right hands sounds by adjusting Volumes or Mute status.
Assign Switches (controlling XA Control) can be used to recall right hand sounds (turning one off while simultaneously activating another).

I did not read through all of what Jason wrote, but there are many, many ways you can accomplish the goal.

I cannot get tired of writing it because it is very true and it cannot be stated enough: There is no ONE-WAY to work.

Necessity is the Mother of Invention. I find new ways to accomplish things everyday with this system... you will too!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 7
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thanks for the quick response, Mr. Mister!

If you need 15 right hands sounds on any one song (wow!)
Nah. As I said, it's to get through the entire gig. I've done lots of MOX/MOXF gigs where--apart from maybe a small handful of song-specific Performances--I stay in one Performance for the entire night, playing LH bass and switching RH among about 15 other sounds that cover every sound for every song. That band is a wedding band, we have a repertoire of hundreds of songs, and the vast majority can be played with that small set of sounds. I set it up this way and I have no need to program hundreds of individual songs, nor does it matter what order the songs are called in. As long as I can switch my RH at any time among 15 or so common sounds, I can get through practically the whole gig with that one Performance.

One method: You can simply create 15 Performances, then simply advance through them with a Foot Switch... No problem.
Creating 15 Performances and switching among them was the "option #1" I described, that I hoped would work. I was just looking for confirmation that Performance switching is fast enough for this purpose, since I seemed to recall reading that Performance switching is not necessarily instantaneous. If it's fast enough for switching RH sounds over walking bass mid-song (the same bass sound would be in both Performances), great, problem solved! I'd just set up the 15 Performances--bass+strings, bass+horns, bass+whatever--all on the same screen, and as long as I could tap the one I wanted at any moment, without worrying about a delay in the new sound or my bass glitching during the transition, I'm all set!

You will be limited to 3-Part right hand sounds... in order to use SSS
No problem there. I'm used to single-part RH sounds when I do this on the MOXF. ;-) And seamless transitions on the RH sound (i.e. a tail of the old RH sound could carry over as I switch to the new) would just be an additional bonus! Being able to have multiple layered RH sounds while doing tis is a bonus as well. It looks like MODX LH bass implementation beats MOXF from start to finish. (Availability of a 76 key model is great for this, too.)

You can use the Super Knob and the very flexible Assign Knob system to transition right hand sounds just as easily, keeping the bass the same. This method would allow you to use an FC7 sweep pedal to transition smoothly between right hand sounds while the left remains on the bass.

SCENE buttons can recall right hands sounds by adjusting Volumes or Mute status.
Assign Switches (controlling XA Control) can be used to recall right hand sounds (turning one off while simultaneously activating another).
This is like an infommericial... "But wait, there's more!!" Looking forward to my MODX, thanks again.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 8
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You're gonna love it!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 9
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Your usage of Option #1 is going to be closely tied to how simple changing Performances is (or is not) for you. It's important for you to understand that changing between Performances to change between #1 and #8 or #14 to #3 ("random" access - meaning any Performance to any other Performance in your collection) is NOT the same as MOXF. MOXF had a way to tap 3 buttons to get random access. MODX is different - and understanding this different would be, IMO, key to determining how this option will align with your needs.

Going to the next Performance (current Performance + 1) or previous Performance (current Performance -1) is simple. This is not random, it's sequential. Going to a random Performance (at least one out of 16) would likely best be accomplished with Live Set (this is what I use). Live set allows you to place 16 Performances on a single screen and then use the touch screen to switch between them. If you begin to "memorize" the spacial location of each RH instrument on the 4x4 grid - then you can start to switch between the intended Performances without taking too much time out to "hunt and peck".

The Live Set grid looks like this:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/images/MODX_Basics_Images/1_Live_Set.png

The Montage (maybe MODX is too where you are - not here yet) is in stores and has the same Live Set menu. You can testdrive this and see if the screen angle and touchscreen works for you in order to leverage Live Set.

For single-gesture "random access" of 1 out of 16 RH parts - Live Set is about your only option.

Regarding "fast enough" - this method of switching should only use 2 PARTs assuming your RH PART is a single-PART instrument. It can be up to 3 PARTs which is fairly liberal for a single instrument. Most instruments that use more than 3 PARTs will have a version that fits within 3 PARTs (I'm thinking about pianos or organs). Since SSS will apply here, your walking bass line will never be interrupted using the random access switching method (touchscreen).

Now your RH part will have a slight delay. It's going to be about an 8th note. The delay is not long - but it will not allow you to play a 16th note line with one RH Performance, then switch to a different RH Performance and continue the line on the next 16th note. I'm not aware of what your needs are - but I believe the audience will not see any difference between a continuous stream of fast notes that change instruments (with a walking bass line that is uninterrupted) vs. the RH PART which pauses for a quarter note and resumes with another sound on the next quarter note. This is, of course, tempo dependent -- so faster tempos may need a dotted quarter note of "rest" time. Again, your bass need zero rest. It will leverage SSS in order to play through the transition without interruption.

It may make sense to open up a topic on the MODX category to continue this discussion.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 10
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
You are referencing an article which, at least in the quoted section, does NOT deal with switching Performances.
I know. I merely used that as a jumping off point to discuss the various approaches to the objective discussed there, i.e. LH bass.

The fact that the Performance in the article only accomplishes 4 "sounds" is not a limitation of the approach, it's a limitation chosen in implementation.
The approach described there employed scenes. I mistakenly said the approach was limited to 4 sounds, when in fact I should have said 8. But the point was, I was looking for more than 8, so I was indeed running into a limitation of that particular approach.

You reference another article and ask if that method in a link can be used. ...The other method is sort-of-doable...but this method is, in my opinion, more cumbersome on Montage/MODX due to lack of random access buttons. What I mean is that one of the Motifator suggestions is to swap out a "part" by calling it up using the BANK (like PRE1, USR1) / GROUP (like A-H) / Number (like 1-16) buttons. Montage/MODX doesn't have these buttons.
Right, that's why I was wondering whether there might be a screen that provided similar functionality (i.e. you're in Edit mode, playing LH bass, and selecting from among 15-ish on-screen buttons to instantly select the RH sound as you play, something you could do with the physical buttons on the MOXF). That was my "option #2." And actually, I still don't know whether that's possible, but from what Bad Mister said, it sounds like there are better options anyway, in which case it's pretty much moot.

2) Say you have something more reasonable, a walking bass line...If you're OK with advancing to the NEXT Performance (meaning your "roadmap" of instruments in terms of sequence is pre-planned) then this method can work OK...I'm assuming you can deal with stopping playing the RH while changing Performances -- you're going to need that hand to accomplish the switch unless you use a footswitch. You probably should NOT use a footswitch - or decide to tap the footswitch with your hand
I will never "advance to the next performance" because there is no set order, I need random selection of my RH sounds from this palette of about 15. Yes, I would stop playing the RH before switching performances, and would use that hand to select the next sound. Though I might use a sustain pedal to hold the first RH sound while doing so. I will never be using a footswitch to change sounds.

If you do not have the sequence of RH instruments pre-planned, then switching between each of your Performances may be cumbersome to go to a certain Performance.
But I can have 16 user-defined Performances on the same screen, and just tap the one I want. That wouldn't be cumbersome at all.

if 15 RH PARTs is what you want...As a second, more mainstream, option I would use TWO Performances and drop the requirement for 15 - downsizing to 14 RH Parts. Where the 1st Performance has the same bass in PART1 and then different RH Parts in PART2-8 (all single PART instruments). Then I can go "one up" or "one down" in terms of Performance number and reach all 14 RH parts
That option would work for me. I'd rather have all 14 options on one screen than flip back and forth between two, but I could deal with the latter. That's a viable fallback approach if there is any issue with having the 16 different Performances I want all quickly/seamlessly selectable on the same Live Set page.

Alternatively, you could also copy the same 2 Performances over and over until you feel like you have enough to cover any tune you'd want to switch back and forth....you could copy these two Performances over and over, in sequence...If you had 100 of these, you could switch back and forth 50 times -- which is too many for any realistic tune.
These ideas are not relevant to my particular needs. I have no desire to ever use a footswitch to change sounds. And again, to be clear, this is not about being able to have tons of switches inside a single song, but rather, to handle all the switches for the entire gig.

It's important for you to understand that changing between Performances to change between #1 and #8 or #14 to #3 ("random" access)...is NOT the same as MOXF. MOXF had a way to tap 3 buttons to get random access. MODX is different - and understanding this different would be, IMO, key to determining how this option will align with your needs.
Again, I rarely changed Performances on my MOXF. Everything I've been talking about was done from within a single Performance. Though if I did have to get to another Performance, it was quick and easy, as you say. I don't need to have instant access to every Performance. From my understanding of Live Sets (including what you've said), it sounds like I could create a Live Set that has 16 LH bass combos that I could freely switch between, and one more Live Set that has up to 16 additional Performances I might customize for particular songs. That would probably take care of everything I need, at least for these gigs.

For single-gesture "random access" of 1 out of 16 RH parts - Live Set is about your only option.
That looks best, 16 LH bass+something combos I could select from a single screen. But the alternate methods you and Bad Mister discussed for doing similar things are good to know about too, thanks!

Regarding "fast enough" ...your RH part will have a slight delay. It's going to be about an 8th note. The delay is not long - but it will not allow you to play a 16th note line with one RH Performance, then switch to a different RH Performance and continue the line on the next 16th note.
That's fine. That delay was one of my concerns, but it sounds plenty fast enough. As discussed above, my RH will leave the keyboard to change the sound, and it sounds like I'm unlikely to be getting it back to the keys before the change has taken place anyway.

It may make sense to open up a topic on the MODX category to continue this discussion.
Yeah, maybe I didn't post this in the best place, I just followed the link from the article, for where to discuss the article. Though I guess almost everything discussed here apples equally to either board.

Anyway, thanks for all the input, there was some helpful detail in there!
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 11
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Regarding "fast enough" - this method of switching should only use 2 PARTs assuming your RH PART is a single-PART instrument. It can be up to 3 PARTs which is fairly liberal for a single instrument. Most instruments that use more than 3 PARTs will have a version that fits within 3 PARTs (I'm thinking about pianos or organs). Since SSS will apply here, your walking bass line will never be interrupted using the random access switching method (touchscreen).

Now your RH part will have a slight delay. It's going to be about an 8th note. The delay is not long - but it will not allow you to play a 16th note line with one RH Performance, then switch to a different RH Performance and continue the line on the next 16th note. I'm not aware of what your needs are - but I believe the audience will not see any difference between a continuous stream of fast notes that change instruments (with a walking bass line that is uninterrupted) vs. the RH PART which pauses for a quarter note and resumes with another sound on the next quarter note. This is, of course, tempo dependent -- so faster tempos may need a dotted quarter note of "rest" time. Again, your bass need zero rest. It will leverage SSS in order to play through the transition without interruption.

It turns out this wasn't quite as trouble-free as it seemed like it would be. The good news is, as I expected, the RH delay is inconsequential. I lift my right hand to choose a new RH sound anyway, and by the time my hand is back to the keys, the sound is playable. Also, as you said, if I'm holding a LH bass note though the transition, the SSS assures that the bass note doesn't glitch during the change. However, if it's a moving bass line, it will occasionally drop a bass note if I hit that bass note just when the sound switch is happening.

Also, I tried doing things basically the way I did on the MOXF... I created a split with bass on bottom and one of my common RH sounds on top, selected the RH sound, and clicked Category Search and brought it to the first page of my User sounds, so at any time, I could pick any of my 16 favorite RH sounds as I played. (On the MOXF this was done from within the Edit page, but it was the same idea.) So in this case, when I switch sounds, I'm not loading a new identical replacement of my LH bass sound as I was when I was switching Performances from the Live Set page, I'm actually keeping that sound loaded and unchanged. Yet still, when I select a new RH sound (which I understand is also a Performance even though it's only changing the sound above the split point), again the LH bass sound holds fine through the change if it's just a held note, but may lose a note if I'm playing a quick moving bass line. I don't remember ever hearing that happen on the MOXF, which made it doubly surprising.

So that's two ways of changing just the RH sound that are not foolproof in terms of no-glitch LH bass. I'm still experimenting...
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 12
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That's the basic rule for SSS. It's for sustaining notes over a Performance change. If you're doing moving lines - SSS is not the way to go. Some will say it works for them - but we all approach the keyboard differently and our music has different demands.

I'm thinking enabling the Live Set to have a set of 16 switches you can turn on/off for each PART - where you can "protect" any PART or PARTs from being swapped out would serve you.

Inspired this: https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Use-Live-Set-to-Load-Only-SOME-Parts/218963-45978

There are actually lots of things that would help. Note shift as a destination is another. That was covered in previous discussion.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 13
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I can't find the performance examples zip file referred to in the article, where can that be downloaded from?
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 14
Bad Mister
Yamaha
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
I can't find the performance examples zip file referred to in the article, where can that be downloaded from?
You are correct, they seemed to have disappeared. Thank you for pointing that out... we’ll try to get that link restored to the article. In the meantime I have attached the "LiveSetExample.X7U" Zipped.

You can unzip this and copy the File to a USB stick you use with your MONTAGE.
Remember: Loading a USER File will automatically overwrite the current User data. Not a big deal if you already have a File of your current User Bank, but if you have newly created data in your USER Bank, make sure you save it BEFORE loading any other User File (.X7U)
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  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 15
Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Thank you very much for a quick response.
  1. more than a month ago
  2. MONTAGE
  3. # 16
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