When creating custom Performances that are made up of several preset Performances in splits and layers you would begin by selecting your key sound.  And by this I mean that it would be the star of the show and shouldn't have one thing that's altered (effects or controls).  As you add more layers or splits from different sounds those added "secondary" Parts are going to have some compromises in terms of effects (system and master effects) and controls (how super knob works or other buttons knobs and controls).

Do you have to follow (as in keep up) with all of this?  Not really, you'll learn what all of this means in good time.  But know that the choice of what Performance you're going to start with as your foundation makes a difference.  And often a solution to "weirdness" in the final result is starting with a different Performance.

When selecting your foundation, you wouldn't care about trashing anything since you haven't started yet.  So you can select and preview all you want.

After this, from the home screen, press the [+] on an empty Part which should bring you to a different kind of Category Search.  It's only impacting at the Part level.  This should allow you to preview without trashing any other Parts.

I'm going by memory and typing on a cell phone.  There should be articles that walk you through the difference between Performance, Part, Waveform, etc Category Searches.  Someone can cut/paste those links here or I'll get around to it later.  But, broadly, try to implement the workflow I've suggested and see how that falls.

Eventually you'll have ESP which will certainly provide some alternative workflows used in combination with your MODX M or standalone.

Suggestion #1 - don't edit a part and then use category search to replace it with a different part. Load the different part into an unused part slot.

Suggestion #2 - don't look up! You are at the bottom of a fairly steep 'learning curve'. It is very cloudy up there and even if it wasn't you won't be able to see the top of the curve for quite a while.

Suggestion #3 - download the operations doc - https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modxm/downloads.html

Please don't take that in a RTFM way. I'm not suggesting you could have found the answers yourself just using the doc. The current docs have some serious deficiencies even when you know what to look for. 

But if you refer to that doc while you read the below info it will make things easier for you.

I'll be making multi-part performances with a lot of layers and splits.  I want the ability to try out different sounds in the mix for a part.  When I edit a part to try a new sound (edit > category search), I lose any setting for the part I had, and I don't seem able to undo the change I just made, whether I like it or not.

On p.73 of the doc you will see a graphic showing the preset performance 'CFX + FM EP 2' that has two parts: the CFX piano in part 1 and the FM electric piano (FM EP 2) in part 2.

Item (7) is the Keyboard Control switch. Both parts have it on. When the switch is ON for a part then that part can sound when you play the keys. If the switch is OFF for a part then when you play a key that part won't respond to your playing that key.

So the first way to 'audition' parts is to turn OFF the keyboard control switch for the sounds/parts you don't want to hear.

Item (12) is one of the '+' signs that indicates an empty part slot. Press a '+' sign to use category search to load a part into that empty slot. That way it won't get loaded and replace one of your other parts. When you load it and want to audition it just turn OFF the keyboard control switch for all of the other parts. Or if you want to hear how the new part 3 sounds with the old part 2 then just turn OFF part 1 keyboard control.

I'll be making multi-part performances with a lot of layers and splits.  I want the ability to try out different sounds in the mix for a part.  When I edit a part to try a new sound (edit > category search), I lose any setting for the part I had,

Correct - when you load a part it will replace any part in that slot. And if you haven't saved the performance before the load you will lose your settings.

IMPORTANT - you can NOT save 'parts' - you can only save the entire performance and ALL of its parts.

and I don't seem able to undo the change I just made, whether I like it or not.

Well, yes and no. If you refer to p.9 of the doc you will find there is a Recall buffer and a Compare buffer.

This can sometimes let you recover but don't rely on it. Save your work on a regular basis and don't load new parts into occupied part slots.

I need to have a way to audition sounds in the performance without committing to it.  I guess I could add a new part just to try it out, but that's a pain, especially if I need to add all the settings every time I try a new one.

Until you save the performance you are not 'committing to it'. Add a new part to an EMPTY slot and try it out. If you know you don't want to use that part then edit it and load another part into that same slot and it will replace the first part. If you aren't sure then load another new part into another empty slot and try them both out using the keyboard control switches to select the parts you want to sound together.

Finally delete any parts you don't want and then save the performance.

ADVANCED solution - p. 18 of the doc introduces you to scenes. You can create 8 scenes and each one is a snapshot of a set of parameters for each part. In those scenes you can also decide the settings for each parts keyboard control switch. So you can have scene 1 use only parts 1 and 3 while scene 2 uses parts 1 and 2. That way you can use the scene button to switch between scenes 1 and 2 to hear how part 1/3 sound together versus how parts 1/2 sound together.

I'm having a really frustrating time with the workflow.

Do not, under any circumstances, think you can just follow the advice in that old saying 'lie down until the feeling goes away'. The frustration will diminish over time but it will ALWAYS be lurking in the background ready to make itself known at the first opportunity.

All kidding aside the M models are complex synths with a LOT of functionality and it will take some time to get familiar with it all.

A couple of key things to keep in mind.

1. Whatever happens, soundwise, happens because somewhere there is programming that is making it happen. When something happens you don't want or like then the first, not often easy, task is to find the programming that is making it happen. If/when you post here for help the more info you can provide about WHAT you have tried (step by step) the easier it will be for someone to help.

2. The M models are SYNTHESIZERS - not arrangers or pianos or organs. They can be programmed to do most of those things but, out of the box, they may not do what you want them to.

3. The preset performances, for the most part, are programmed as DEMONSTRATIONS and not as 'stage ready' for any gig you might use them for. In some cases each scene will demo a totally different set of functionality that may not even be related to what other scenes are doing. Almost like having 8 different performances in one unit.

4. In many cases, if not most, (see #3 above) you will have to modify a preset in some way to make it suitable for how you plan to use it. You should plan to create a set of your own 'base' performances to build on. Find a preset you like. Edit it to alter/remove the functionality you don't want or like. Save your changed version as 'rldoan_blues' to use as the starting point for other performances. In other words create your own, custom, set of presets and use those to build your real performances on.

5. Save your performances often and use unique names. The instrument WILL let you create 8 performances with the exact same name and you won't have any way to tell them apart later.

6. Ask for help when you need it. Why beat your head against the wall if someone else can just help you in the right direction?

Good luck with your new instrument. The more you get to know it the more you will like it.

Posted by: Jason

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When creating custom Performances that are made up of several preset Performances in splits and layers you would begin by selecting your key sound.  And by this I mean that it would be the star of the show and shouldn't have one thing that's altered (effects or controls).  As you add more layers or splits from different sounds those added "secondary" Parts are going to have some compromises in terms of effects (system and master effects) and controls (how super knob works or other buttons knobs and controls).

 

Do you have to follow (as in keep up) with all of this?  Not really, you'll learn what all of this means in good time.  But know that the choice of what Performance you're going to start with as your foundation makes a difference.  And often a solution to "weirdness" in the final result is starting with a different Performance.

 

When selecting your foundation, you wouldn't care about trashing anything since you haven't started yet.  So you can select and preview all you want.

 

After this, from the home screen, press the [+] on an empty Part which should bring you to a different kind of Category Search.  It's only impacting at the Part level.  This should allow you to preview without trashing any other Parts.

 

I'm going by memory and typing on a cell phone.  There should be articles that walk you through the difference between Performance, Part, Waveform, etc Category Searches.  Someone can cut/paste those links here or I'll get around to it later.  But, broadly, try to implement the workflow I've suggested and see how that falls.

 

Eventually you'll have ESP which will certainly provide some alternative workflows used in combination with your MODX M or standalone.

Thanks for the tips.  I'm used to working on Korg Kross, where the sounds (all samples) are changeable independently of the channel and its settings.  On the Yamaha, it would be comparable to changing out the elements in a part.  And you can try out a sound without saving it, and can "escape" and undo it.  That's a big feature I miss.

On my Kross, I would go back and swap instruments all the time in the channel.  It's a necessary part of my workflow.  Very frustrating that I have to come up with hacks and workarounds to do that on the Yamaha.

Looking forward to ESP.

Posted by: Toby

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Good luck with your new instrument. The more you get to know it the more you will like it.

Thanks for the tips, Toby.  I come from a Korg Kross, where the instruments and the channel are independent.  I have to learn a new workflow, of course.

Correct - when you load a part it will replace any part in that slot. And if you haven't saved the performance before the load you will lose your settings.

This is VERY unfortunate.

It really is awful that you can't play around with the part settings without losing what you had previously.  There should be two buttons -- one to keep your edits and another to exit out of it and go back to what you had.  The unfortunately named "Exit" button exits from the edit screen but keeps all the changes.  Exiting without saving is an intuitive workflow.  You need to be able to have the ability to experiment without committing.  That's a major fail on Yamaha's part.

If you want to experiment with your existing ANX wave or filter or lfo, for example, you've got to copy it to a new part (if you haven't used all 8), and experiment there.

IMPORTANT - Almost anything you do will change the 'performance' in some way whether you think you are 'editing' or not.

Read the above several times to drill it into your head. That is probably the most important, and most often unknown and overlooked, difference between the M models and other manufacturers instruments.

Load a performance, twirl a knob - you have CHANGED the performance without ever using that 'EDIT' button. If you now use STORE whatever change you made will be there the next time you load that performance. 

There really aren't any 'modes' on the instrument. The DAW REMOTE is about the closest you get and many users don't use that for normal operations.

It really is awful that you can't play around with the part settings without losing what you had previously.  There should be two buttons -- one to keep your edits and another to exit out of it and go back to what you had.  The unfortunately named "Exit" button exits from the edit screen but keeps all the changes.

What there 'should be' isn't going to help you deal with 'what is'. Reread, and remember, those first paragraphs I wrote above. There are some basic realities you will need to accept and deal with. You ignore/dismiss them at your peril:

1. A loaded performance is LIVE - twirl a knob, try 'something' and you have made changes that, if you STORE, will become permanent and be there the next time you load the performance. 

2. You, the user, can NEVER create a performance from scratch. All user performance begin by loading an existing performance: load a preset, load a library performance or load a user performance from a library/user file you loaded. The closest you can get to a 'new' performance is to load one of the 'Init Normal' presets. And even those are likely to have some settings you will want/need to change to your liking.

3. You, the user, can NEVER create a new part from scratch. Your only option is to copy an existing part from the same, or another, performance. Which means whatever part you copy is likely going to have 'stuff' programmed into it that you aren't going to want and may not even know is there.

  Exiting without saving is an intuitive workflow.

Sorry - there is no such thing. There isn't any 'mode' to exit from.

  You need to be able to have the ability to experiment without committing.  That's a major fail on Yamaha's part.

The ONLY way to guarantee that is to not use STORE to save any, even unknown, changes you may have made. And that only applies to the performance as a whole. Even then there are still some pieces (e.g. patterns) that aren't technically part of the performance and if you make a change to them that change may get saved without you even knowing it.

If you want to experiment with your existing ANX wave or filter or lfo, for example, you've got to copy it to a new part (if you haven't used all 8), and experiment there.

Correct - and sometimes it is best to use parts 9-16 for that since they don't have keyboard control anyway. So load/copy a part you want to test into slot 9-16 and when you have that part selected you can play it. But if you have any other part selected it won't play. Of course that doesn't help you if you need to audition a new part to see how it plays with another part. For that both parts need to be in slots 1-8 so they can have keyboard control enabled.

I have to learn a new workflow, of course.

Here's a thought. Have your significant other write that 'new workflow' quote backwards on your forehead.

That way it will be the first thing you see every morning when you look in the mirror!

It can be a steep learning curve. As you start your journey upwards clip a carabiner to the safety cable so you won't fall all the way back to the start!

Posted by: Toby

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Here's a thought. Have your significant other write that 'new workflow' quote backwards on your forehead.

That way it will be the first thing you see every morning when you look in the mirror!

Lol.  I do understand the new workflow.  That's what I was confirming with my initial question.  😀   Unfortunately, for my use case -- sound design / experimentation and audition on the fly -- the workflow is not convenient.

If Yamaha were to implement a non-destructive-editing-and-exiting feature, my quality of life would improve.  I'm hoping ESP will offer some relief.

By the way, there's a lot about the board I like.  I love the sound engines, and the ability to add elements to 128 elements (!) to a part.  And I'm quite used to menu diving, so not fazed by that at all!

What I have described broadly as the "file system" functions on Yamaha gear, I've said it lacks elegance and places a fairly heavy burden on the user.  This is part of the Yamaha DNA that goes back for decades.

Slowly, suggestions have been getting rolled in but changing one's DNA is a tough road for any manufacturer.

I wish there was better abstraction and things worked in a more industry standard manner that better match modern devices (even take how other keyboards work out of it, but just consumer devices in general).   

So, if so moved, do cast your wish/suggestion to the Ideascale well and we'll see where this goes over time.