Yes - the MODX M has the same channel assigment functionality as the Montage M models.

Question: It would be good to know if MODX M can assign a receive channel 7 to all parts 5-8 to play the layered sound from the controller.

See page 70 of the 'A0' MODX-M operation manual.

Set keyboard control to OFF for parts 5-8 and on the zone screen for each of those parts set the Tx/Rx receive channel to 7. That will allow all parts to receive on channel 7.

It's kind of a mixed bag though.  Some improvements and some things that are more shackled versus the previous gen.  Hopefully what you want to do in its entirety is supported by the new functionality.  I know you clearly articulated a use case but there are edge cases and overall the implementation is not simply what the older Gen could do plus ability to arbitrarily set the MIDI receive channels.

Kier summarized some of this:

http://www.kierdarby.com/2025/01/unwanted-changes-to-midi-implementation.html?m=1

Maybe with his proximity to Yamaha some weighted influence can help steer future MIDI enhancements.

Posted by: Jason

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It's kind of a mixed bag though.  Some improvements and some things that are more shackled versus the previous gen.  Hopefully what you want to do in its entirety is supported by the new functionality.  I know you clearly articulated a use case but there are edge cases and overall the implementation is not simply what the older Gen could do plus ability to arbitrarily set the MIDI receive channels.

 

Kier summarized some of this:

That's interesting, but while he shows something you used to be able to do with fewer steps, I'm not sure I see an actual loss of total functionality there. The one aspect that seems like a loss is that you're burning through more Parts to achieve the same end, which could create an issue if you're already low on spare Parts. But since we're specifically talking about a function in a DAW environment, well, once you're in the DAW environment, could you not address the issue by integrating ESP, to essentially give you more total Parts to work with, so that the loss of the additional otherwise available Parts would also no longer be an unsolvable issue?

That should work for some use cases but I'm not sure using ESP is an option for the OP.

My usecase is the following for a live setup on stage.

. . .

Mapping/replicating MIDI channels in a DAW is also not an option for a live scenario. No PC on stage.

For us the problem is that a part on the M8X can only be internal OR external but not both. There are several IdeaScale suggestions to remedy that.

We're hoping 'Santa' brings a late Xmas present for NAAM in Jan when the MODX M OS update is due out. Since it will get an update to match the Montage M model functionality we think the odds are good that update will also include bug fixes and some new things and be available for the Montage M models also.

To be sure, although we are hopeful we are NOT keeping our fingers crossed. Last time they had been crossed for so long we had to have surgery to get them straightened out again!

Hi, here is my video tutorial explaining how it's work on Montage M, it apply in the same way for the MODX M 

Yamaha Montage M Essential | Understanding MIDI Management (English & Subtitles)

https://youtu.be/XfFfOrPEXO8

Hope it will help 

Posted by: Toby

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That should work for some use cases but I'm not sure using ESP is an option for the OP.

My usecase is the following for a live setup on stage.

. . .

Mapping/replicating MIDI channels in a DAW is also not an option for a live scenario. No PC on stage.

You already completely solved the OP's issue with your first post. 🙂 I was discussing an unrelated issue, brought up by Jason. That unrelated issue--at least to the extent discussed in the link Jason referenced--is specific to DAW use. 

@AnotherScott - please accept my apology! I got the two confused and didn't mean to suggest your comments were misdirected. I'll try to pay more attention next time.

Just saying that, as usual, the new gen doesn't incrementally build on the old gen.  Then rules have changed and there's a different set of compromises to deal with.  Kier's video wasn't exhaustive but gives the general flavor that there's a new set of gotchas this gen.

The sky isn't falling, but I thought it was fair to give a heads up.  

Posted by: Toby

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Yes - the MODX M has the same channel assigment functionality as the Montage M models.

Question: It would be good to know if MODX M can assign a receive channel 7 to all parts 5-8 to play the layered sound from the controller.

See page 70 of the 'A0' MODX-M operation manual.

Set keyboard control to OFF for parts 5-8 and on the zone screen for each of those parts set the Tx/Rx receive channel to 7. That will allow all parts to receive on channel 7.

Thanks Toby, this is exactly what I asked for. And would help a lot in my setup. One more argument to move to MODX M. 😉

But the discussion hardly shows that the whole MIDI story can easily get quite complicate to serve all needs. Let's see if that Jason's issue can be solved by some firmware update.

Outside of MIDI there's lots of live use improvements.  Having more destinations in the control matrix is great.  The ability to slow down tempo with a knob is given this gen which I used in the past when doing ritardandos with ARPs but couldn't do with Montage Classic.  The new scene capabilities with shifting around octaves and key range really helps prevent "burning" Parts like I have to do now with Montage Classic.  There's a lot of features that help conserve resources which means you can squeeze more out of a single Performance.  The huge element count per AWM2 Part help shrink down sounds from taking up a bunch of Parts to taking up much less so this saves on Part utilization.   There's a pretty sizable list of improvements geared towards live use.

Posted by: Jason

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Outside of MIDI there's lots of live use improvements...The new scene capabilities with shifting around octaves and key range really helps prevent "burning" Parts like I have to do now with Montage Classic....The huge element count per AWM2 Part help shrink down sounds from taking up a bunch of Parts to taking up much less so this saves on Part utilization.   There's a pretty sizable list of improvements geared towards live use.

Yup. One of the other nice live enhancements of the combination of those new scene capabilities and move away from multi-part single instruments is that, for live use, fader use is more predictable. Part burning--besides using up parts you might not have to spare (especially if you wanted to maintain SSS)--also meant that, within a Performance, the slider for any particular component sound could change depending on what Scene you had recalled. Plus there was the complication that, for some sounds, there was no single slider to adjust its volume, but rather, a combination of sliders. Add to that you only had 4 sliders available at once to begin with, instead of 8. All of which means live management of your individual sounds within a Performance is enormously improved now. And the additional sliders improve live pseudo-clonehweel operation as well. 8 instantly available Scene buttons instead of 4 is a nice live enhancement too. Some other nice live improvements that strike me are the proximity of shift and transpose buttons (making transpose a 1-hand operation instead of 2), and that the dedicated split button/screen looks like it could be a way to quickly and clearly show you what sound you've got where as you're playing

And getting back to MIDI, besides the OP's appreciation of the ability to put multiple Parts on the same MIDI receive channel (a nice live enhancement e.g. if you're pairing the MODX M with a board that can only transmit on a single zone), the fact that seamless switching works with Performance of up to 6 Parts instead of only up to 4 also makes it easier to integrate external sounds into your Performances without breaking SSS. Related, I *think* it no longer insists on often having each part transmit MIDI on its own channel, which means you no longer have the issue where the system is only really happy if external devices only receive on channels 9 through 16. (Or as Bad Mister had referred to that, it was a "best practice" to do so, unless you pre-planned accordingly to avoid running into problems when doing otherwise.) Am I correct about this?

The only thing that I've found that negatively impacts live usability from my own perspective is, as I've mentioned, search results now only show 8 results at a time instead of 16. Sometimes I'm in unpredictable live situations, where I call up sounds directly instead of via pre-arranged Live Set pages, and this will slow down patch navigation by increasing scrolling when searches yield more than 8 results.

... trying to think through:

Related, I *think* it no longer insists on often having each part transmit MIDI on its own channel, which means you no longer have the issue where the system is only really happy if external devices only receive on channels 9 through 16.

Not sure I follow everything here.  Can't start to try to answer.  Just my mental block following which device is the "it" or "its" in the above.  Since some interpretations I think would lead to too simple of an answer you'd already know - I'll just not try to answer this now.

... but on the 16 Performance per screen during Category Search.  I think your highlighting the why it's impactful goes a long way.  The previous discussions I didn't internalize that your usage relies on Category Search during a live Performance and that 8-at-a-time kills this workflow.   

If I were Yamaha I'd probably start to dig into your live workflow and see how to customize an interface that gets you what you need in Category Search with the least amount of clicks.   There may be a better way still than the Montage/MODX classic way.  Clean slate if you had a way to organize Performances in any which way - what would yield the perfect night of pushing buttons or touchscreen that would get you through the night?   20 performances on the screen (or 16) may be one thing - but I wonder if there's anything else that would help.

For me, I would never want to use live any of the ARP based Performances which typically have drum loops and such.  So in the live setting there'd be a bunch of Performances I would just never want to be returned.   I guess I could go through the trouble of favoriting everything except those Perfs and filter by favorite but that's still a few extra "clicks".  I'd kind of wish for a mode where I could switch the keyboard into "live" mode vs "studio" mode where "live" mode would allow for a bunch of pre-baked filters on Category search so a "live" Category Search just wouldn't have any of these ARP based Perfs.  And maybe allow for other ways to filter Performances in this "Live" mode.  I think about user categories without much more thought on how to integrate this.   There's probably other entire ways of rethinking the interface that would work best in the seat-of-the-pants style live usage.   And this is probably a common enough way to use the keyboard that it would be beneficial to brainstorm.

Having a way to search for and 'find' a performance without it automatically becoming the current performance would be nice. Just because I use cateogory search to look thru things doesn't mean I want it to replace the performance I'm currently using.

So maybe having to use the 'Enter' button to actually do the replacement would be useful. 

Posted by: Jason

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... trying to think through:

Related, I *think* it no longer insists on often having each part transmit MIDI on its own channel, which means you no longer have the issue where the system is only really happy if external devices only receive on channels 9 through 16.

Not sure I follow everything here.  Can't start to try to answer.  Just my mental block following which device is the "it" or "its" in the above.  Since some interpretations I think would lead to too simple of an answer you'd already know - I'll just not try to answer this now.

Re-phrasing:

I think MODX M no longer insists on often having each part transmit MIDI on its own channel, which means you no longer have the issue where the system is only really happy if external devices only receive on channels 9 through 16.

Further clarifying: On older MODX, if you weren't using a Performance with Zone Master enabled, Parts 1-8 always transmitted on MIDI channels 1-8, respectively. So if you were switching from a user Performance with external sounds to some stock factory (or other non-zone-master engaged) sound (which could have anywhere from 1 to 8 Parts under Keyboard Control), any attached external device set to receive on the first 8 MIDI channels could suddenly be sounding against your wishes. The way around that (other than sticking with zone-master-enabled sounds) was to limit your use of external gear to MIDI channels 9 through 16. I believe that complication has been eliminated in the M.

Posted by: Jason

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If I were Yamaha I'd probably start to dig into your live workflow and see how to customize an interface that gets you what you need in Category Search with the least amount of clicks.   There may be a better way still than the Montage/MODX classic way.  Clean slate if you had a way to organize Performances in any which way - what would yield the perfect night of pushing buttons or touchscreen that would get you through the night?   20 performances on the screen (or 16) may be one thing - but I wonder if there's anything else that would help.

MODX worked okay for me because, when looking for a sound mid-gig, filtering by FAVORITES (which is remembered, so only has to be set once) and then CATEGORY (and perhaps subcategory) was sufficient for letting me quickly find what I needed. And no category had more than 16 items, so no scrolling was needed, I could then just tap on what I wanted. (Some categories did have more than 8 entries, however... hence my issue with the new layout.)

But you're right, it's not perfect. The biggest problem is that sounds change even if you don't explicitly choose anything. (See the Ideascale entry at https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/yamahasynth/idea/42650 ) - This means that this approach works fine for choosing a sound when you're *between* songs, but if you want to locate a sound *while* you're playing (either for a later section of the song, or for the upcoming song), you're SOL.

Posted by: Toby

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Having a way to search for and 'find' a performance without it automatically becoming the current performance would be nice. Just because I use cateogory search to look thru things doesn't mean I want it to replace the performance I'm currently using.

I think you're pretty much talking about that same problem discussed at that ideascale entry.