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Can you tell us what you mean by 'cant get part 9-16 to sound with other parts'?

On the montage m and modx m models only parts 1-8 have a 'keyboard control' switch and you can turn each switch ON or OFF. When you, the user, play the keyboard the parts with the control switch ON can all play together.

Parts 9-16 do NOT have a keyboard control switch. They will only play if you manually select ONE of those parts; then only that one part will play.

Parts 9-16 are generally played by a DAW, or other external device, that sends MIDI to the channel each of those parts is configured for - the default channel is their part number.

I have tried all suggestions

As you can understand that doesn't give us ANY info about what you tried or how you tried it.

Kier Darby has an excellent video titled 'Add keyboard control to parts 9-16 with Yamaha Montage M, Modx and Montage - tutorial'. It also applies to the Modx M.

https://youtu.be/jvWQ4t15OqI

Watch that video and it should explain what you will be able to do with parts 9-16.

After watching the video, and trying it, let us know if that addressed your issue or if you need additional help.

The M models have a lot of functionality and can often do what you want to do but it isn't always clear just how to do it.

Sure, thanks for your prompt reply. I saw some youtube videos where a midi cable was plugged into the midi in and out to "trick" the modx m into thinking there was a midi device attached, and you could get away with playing all 16 then...I'm not interested in using a DAW as per Kier's video, so thats why I was looking for some other workaround...no matter...interestingly when you choose midi instead of usb for midi under utility, it seems you lose the ability to use arps as well, is this correct?

Not knowing exactly how M works (gory details of the new MIDI rules) I can't really discover if there is a way to replicate that Montage/MODX classic trick.   

That said, I know you can set Parts to share the same MIDI receive channel so you can set Parts 9-16 to receive on channel 8 and set Part 8 to external so that it sends MIDI out on channel 8.

There may be a different way that doesn't "burn" a Part.  I'm just not sure what ends up on the outgoing MIDI bus when Parts are set to internal.

Someone else can chime in if there's a way to do something approaching this without using any external device (tablet, PC, laptop).

A part can only be either Internal or External but not both. 

There may be a different way that doesn't "burn" a Part. I'm just not sure what ends up on the outgoing MIDI bus when Parts are set to internal.

It depends. If there are any external parts then p.69 of the modx m operation manual states:

*Any Parts with Part Mode set to Internal will not transmit MIDI messages.

If there are ONLY internal parts then those parts DO send midi as can be seen using a midi monitor.

Parts 9-16 will sound for two use cases: 1) the user selects a part in the 9-16 range and plays the keyboard or 2) the part 9-16 receives MIDI from an external device.

I saw some youtube videos where a midi cable was plugged into the midi in and out to "trick" the modx m into thinking there was a midi device attached, and you could get away with playing all 16 then

Plugging a midi cable into the MIDI IN of the instrument is used to send midi to the instrument. If you connect the other end of the cable to the Modx M MIDI OUT jack and use a part 1-8 as an external part then that external part will send it's midi from the OUT jack to the IN jack and then to the part 9-16 that is listening on the same channel the part 1-8 transmits on.

Then anything you play on that external part will cause the part 9-16 to sound. 

interestingly when you choose midi instead of usb for midi under utility, it seems you lose the ability to use arps as well, is this correct?

Not quite correct - the M models no longer have the 'Arp Midi Out' switch. That switch determined whether the physical key presses (arp trigger notes) were sent as midi (switch OFF) or the actual notes the arp generated were sent as midi (switch ON).

The M models don't have that switch. So an external part will only send the notes that the arp generates. An internal part will only send the notes you play but will NOT send the notes the arp generates from the notes you play. 

CAVEAT: an internal part won't send ANY midi at all if there are any external parts. 

Right, good thing I didn't errantly suggest Parts could be internal and external.

Kier Darby made a video specifically highlighting the MIDI changes in the M models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkX8Kn2iDhw

Zone Master, Arp Midi Out have been eliminated as has the ability for a part to be both internal and external.

And although the Zone Settings screen has params to configure zoning for external parts if you set values on that screen for internal parts they will be used IN ADDITION to the normal params for internal parts on the part settings screen. Except the scene info will only show the misleading zone values rather than the actual combined values being used.

So, if i am not using a DAW and am playing live, there is no way I can use parts 9-16, except if I have one of those parts selected, and then my other parts (part 1-8) wouldn't sound, is this correct? If so, then, for a live performer who is interested in using more than 8 parts to build a performance, including the potential use of arps in all parts, then parts 9-16 are pretty much useless!

On saying this, I absolutely love this keyboard and the ability to "get under the hood" with it...it's been a steep learning curve, but to me, it offers much more flexibility in some ways than my 3 times more expensive Roland Fantom 6!! Thanks everyone for your responses..

No - that is NOT correct. As explained earlier you use a short MIDI loopback cable to have one external part (e.g. part 8) transmit its MIDI on a channel that parts 9-16 are configured to listen on.

Then when you 'play' parts 1-8 the midi from external part 8 will be received by parts 9-16.

Get yourself a short MIDI cable and get familiar with how to do this. Start simple with just one internal part, one external part and one part in the 9-16 range. 

Once you learn how to do it you can expand it to more parts.

Arps do have a limitation in terms of how many can run at one time.  The limit is less than 16 (8 max) and it's not related to Part control.  It's a limitation baked into the arpeggiator.

It's a limitation that can probably be looked at.  I don't know the internals if arps are part of the asic "hard coded" or if they are code running on the CPU.   If the latter, then there's more horsepower but who knows what limitations are under the hood.

I know you don't want to use a computer but ESP gives you a whole other set of Parts and resources.  A way to really expand the possibilities for the willing.  I personally have resisted carrying a compute device to gigs (except an iPad for charts) so I completely get the desire not to use one for anything.  As a side note, I asked for ESP to get ported to iPad (even a Pro if that's what it takes) since personally I'd be willing to hook up the iPad to expand the Part count live.  I already carry one (not for any virtual instruments, though).

Thanks for this clarification Pete, and yes, I have now got the external parts (all linked to part 8, which i have made external) all sounding (as well as one internal part on part 1)...obviously this sacrifices a part which Im fine with...I still dont quite get the arp info...your caveat stated that "an internal part won't send ANY midi at all if there are any external parts"...the problem i have is i cant get any arps to sound now, on either internal or external parts...is this because, as you stated, I have external parts and internal parts both in my performance?...I have tried on both internal parts and external parts using arps and neither works...

Both the Arp Master and the Arp Part switch have to be ON.

See the graphics on p.214/217/179 of the Modx M operation manual.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modxm/downloads.html

1. Load the CFX + FM EP 2 performance.

2. Set Arp Master to ON 

3. press and hold a key to hear the arp.

No, all those were definitely on Pete..part and master arp...in the end I worked it out...in all my testing of things I must have inadvertedly switched the midi sync switch under Utinities from Internal to Midi...once I switched it back, all good...my mistake...thanks for getting back to me.

Great news! Much thanks for posting that solution! It hadn't occurred to us to consider that switch.

That is just the sort of feedback that will help others, and us, in the future.

We just tested on a Montage M8X and that 'Midi Sync' setting IS preserved when you turn power OFF and back ON so once set properly it should be ok.

TIP: What you found needs to get added to the list of things to check if you need to use a 3rd party instrument at a gig. The gig machine might not have the 'Midi Sync' setting you need. 

If set to MIDI or A/D but without a source it will affect arps (your issue) but should also affect motion sequences, and tempo-synced effects - although we haven't yet tested the latter two. The front panel tempo/tap button was NOT affected on the M8X and allows you to set/change the value but that value is then ignored.

Excellent work finding that.