Can you provide a specific example? Does this occur when you use a preset? If so, which one?

where ever i plug the modx to a mixing console it delivers A LOT of low frequencies and there's a need to low cut it substantially, otherwise it send a disturbing amount of bass.

It isn't at all clear what you mean by 'delivers A LOT of low frequencies.

A synthesizer is, in many regards, just a computer in the sense that it really doesn't do much of anything without a program (performance, external controller) telling it what to do.

A 'fresh out of the box' instrument isn't going to be delivering a lot of low frequencies to it is possible that there are some global settings that have been changed. 

Don't do this yet but one 'common starting point' is to do a factory reset and see if the problem still occurs.

A second common test is to use a basic preset, rather than one of your own performances, and see if the problem still occurs.

A third common test is to disconnect the instrument from EVERYTHING - mixers, speakers - no input or output cables. Then use a good set of stereo headphones and see if the problem still occurs.

is there anyone experienced this phenomina?

What you describe would be due to either custom settings or a possible hardware failure. The settings are more likely to be the cause.

is there a way for 'global eq setting' accross all preformances?

Yes - If you review the Master EQ section on p.173 of the Modx reference doc it will tell you about the top-level eq settings you can change.

CAUTION - that would be a place to look to see if someone HAS changed them. But if they haven't been changed then any changes you make won't fix whatever the real problem is.

i'm consideing having a steroe eq rack or a small mixer with low cut / hpf feature to try to overcome this problem.

The better path is to find the actual cause and address it - not try to overcome what it is doing. Either your instrument is broken (unlikely but possible) or someone has configured it to do what it is doing.

Start with the SIMPLEST possible test case that causes the problem. Then we can analyze why that is happening.

As mentioned earlier if you can use a basic preset and manifest the issue then tell us what preset you are using and someone can try to reproduce it.

The 'Initialize All Settings' (p.196 of the ops doc) will restore the factory settings without disturbing you user area. Do the reset and then turn the instrument OFF and back ON. Does the problem still occur?

This is not a common problem.  At least I can't recall another reporting of this.

thanks Jason for your answer, and thank you Toby for your elaborate answer. Most helpful.
my modx7 is a second hand unit, so there is no warrany or such.
i also did not 'factory reset' it as i got it. i usually do this action on a second hand gear, but in this case i thought i might learn a few things from the previous owner. actually he didn't even scrached the surface. i got this modx for over a year now and i'm quite familiar with 'performance' and 'parts' manipulations in reasonable depth.
it is strange that the 'massive bass output' occurs only on the L\R output. it is not present with headphones.
the bass boost it presents in every fatory ROM sounds and user sounds. for example, the 'Acousic Piano DA' delivers A LOT of bass freq, i had to duplicate this to a user preset and tune the eq to cut low freq. i love this preset nad uses it a lot, but it will be redicolus to duplicate every ROM sound i need.
since i realize i'm the only one complaining, i think there is a reason to beleive that this phenomena is on my unit only.
i think Toby's suggestion to 'factory reset' my modx might help. idk.
i have a gig tommorow, but have no problem reseting the modx after it, hoping all my performance backups will be recoverable.
i'll keep you posted.
thanx thanx thanx 🙂

I'm assuming you have this connected with both the Main L and R outputs fed into your mixer (not running mono).   Are you able to isolate if just the L or just the R channel (Main Out L or R) has the over emphasis of low frequencies?  If they both have the same problem then this would be unusual since the outputs (Main L and R) feed directly into the headphone jack through another set of op amps.  I would think more likely there would be maybe a problem with FI301 or FI302 wither of which wouldn't impact the headphones but would cause a local problem on either L or R Main out.

Of course, there's more to the Main L&R circuit - but really just a voltage divider which seems more of an amplitude related thing and not a frequency thing  (if the values were wrong).  Other than this I don't see anything in the circuitry that would be isolated to the Main outs and wouldn't end up being heard on the headphone output.

thanks for your input Jason.
i'm having this bass boost on both cases, mono only and stereo outputs.
i also think that maybe because i set the system output gain to +6db, instead of leaving it on 0db, cuases the high output gain. i set it because soundmen are knowen to be not very kind to keyboardists 😉
but i think i'll try in a couple of days to take the time to backup and factory reset the modx7 and set the gain to 0db. i didn't do it when i bought the synth, and it already came with the 2.5 update. i believe it will do nothing but good to reset it.
i'll see the consiquences after booting and i'll update you.
thanx 🙂

Hello, 

Just saw this thread and thought you might find this article by Howard Massey helpful. Boosting the output by +6dB will certainly give you lots more of everything, and if the system already has a boosted low end that will really be noticeable. Also, if there is a HPF button on a channel I would engage that and see how it sounds. It helps to cut the low frequency band on the channel as well to reduce muddiness and add more presence.  

Whatever you do don't overlook the three links at the very bottom of that Massey article. Each link is a 'keeper' and has over a dozen detailed articles written by experts that you won't find anywhere else.

That is an excellent article but it has one glaring flaw when he talks about a 12 ounce glass filled with 4 ounces of liquid having 8 ounces of 'noise'.

The rest of the wasted space in the glass—in this case, 8 ounces of nothing but dry, undrinkable air—would, in audio terms, be equivalent to noise.

That isn't true - that 8 ounces isn't noise or sound. The point he is making is true though - the lower the signal the higher the proportion of noise so the lower the 'signal to noise' ratio.

Also - on your Modx there are several Utility settings that do NOT get reset when you power OFF and back ON and some of them relate to gain and some related to 'transpose' and 'note shift'.

So at some point you should definitely do a system reset to make sure YOU are controlling the settings you want to use.

thanks Blake, and thanks again Toby.
i'm sorry i haven't got the time to experiment. i'll do it this weekend.
i do tend to believe that the +6db has a significant effect on the output, as Blake said. it is definitally not the same as just increasing the volume with the volume knobe. it increases the output as if Chuck Norris burst through the door. one time i got curious and set it to +12db and it was like an earthquake...
i realy want to solve this problem, it bugs me a lot. you'll be updated this weekend. may the force be with me... 🙂

Posted by: mckeithen69@gmail.com

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i also think that maybe because i set the system output gain to +6db, instead of leaving it on 0db, cuases the high output gain. i set it because soundmen are knowen to be not very kind to keyboardists 😉

I have a fair amount of experience with keys and live sound (but I'm not an audio engineer), so FWIW, I wanted to add some insights I haven't seen mentioned yet.

First, a 6 dB gain boost theoretically is 4x the power (watts), and not quite double the volume. That's still a lot of gain, on top of the MODX output with volume set, so I'd ask where your volume knob on your board is positioned.

I have never tried to boost the gain on the keyboard's output directly.  I always work with an ADAT style mixer (I use it for getting AU midi zone controlled instruments on my laptop into the mix, but mainly use it to run my own IEM so I'm not dependent on that same sound guy for adequate monitoring and of course to save my hearing). 

The ADAT/mixer's line level 1/4" outputs go through my stereo DI box.  During sound check (or more likely just 'level check'), if they need a little more gain, it's usually not much, and then I turn the master knob (push up the fader) on the ADAT removed link

Everyone can chime in here, but has anyone experienced a scenario where FOH complains that your MODX line level output (with your volume set) requires MORE gain?  I find if anything it's too hot.

Many (most???) sound 'engineers' (unless you're traveling with them or working with them regularly) if they're at least competent will keep you in the mix, but set you and forget you, and not bring you up for dynamic parts or solos.  Some will say, leave your volume control 75% up, to maintain some "headroom" so you have some control on your own - and presumably they're doing their part during sound check to prevent clipping when you reach for the knob.

In summary, my first troubleshooting point would be to kill the 6dB output gain and test.  Live show coming up or not, you can put it back on if you really feel you need it.

A final point is that some MODX/Montage performances (synths, synth basses) have a crazy amount of low end (shake the drum kit, dominate the mix) but most are not problematic.  Using the HPF / low cut is the way to go, but as I'm using mostly MONTAGE ESP through MainStage, I'll sculpt the EQ on the channel containing that instrument to make it authoritative but not overwhelming.

well, i backup all user's data and factory reset the modx (initializing all data).
personally, using 'feel' as a measurement, i cannot tell there is a significant difference. maybe i'll record the output straight to a recording device (i got a tascam dr40) and will upload here the wav file for analisys.
on the other hand, reseting the output gain to 0db DOES restrain the low freq output, before and after reseting the modx.
i use the 'Acousic Piano DA' (factory preset) as a refernce to the amount of low freq i get on the output. it delivers A LOT of bass, but in a nasty way.
if it's not a trouble for one of you, and if you do have modx ver.1, maybe you'll find this preset bass amount too hash. idk.
i'm going to have several rehearsals and live show in the next couple of week, and it will be a good test case.
thanks you all. i'll keep updating 🙂

Zeroing the ouput gain seemed to help if I understand you correctly.  Why don't you now simply adjust the EQ (drop the low end) on the performance presets you're having trouble with, and store the performance(s) for use?

CAVEAT: the below is based on testing on a Montage M8X so you will need to check to see if the comments are applicable to the Modx model you are using.

That performance on the M8X definitely produces high-intensity bass and there are at least three contributing factors for it.

i use the 'Acousic Piano DA' (factory preset) as a refernce to the amount of low freq i get on the output. it delivers A LOT of bass, but in a nasty way.

Thanks for providing that info. It makes it a LOT easier to help when you provide info about what you are using and how you have it configured.

That performance only has one part and only uses one element. So there is only one waveform producing sound and that is the 'S700 ff St' waveform. The 'ff' means fortissimo which is Italian for VERY LOUD.

The second factor is that one element is using a 'Dual LPF' - dual low pass - filter type with a +31% Cutoff/Key setting. So as you play up the keyboard the cutoff frequency rises with it which will include even more bass.

The third factor is that the 'Gain' setting on that filter screen is set to the max at 255. 

P.113 of the Modx reference doc shows it having a similar Gain param.

Assuming the above applies to your instrument model you have several options:

1. don't use that performance. It only has one element anyway so it may not have anything to offer that you can't replicate with a different performance.

2. change the waveform to something less intense. P.62 of the Modx data list doc shows waveform 160 is that same 'S700 ff St' waveform. So your modx perf version could be using that as well.

3. change the gain setting to reduce the amount of filter contribution.

The Modx performance may have different settings but I thought I would provide the above so you can use it as reference.

One takeaway you should note is that presets are often just 'demos' of what the instrument is capable of. They often won't be suitable some types of gigs. They can have a lot of 'hidden' settings in them that can surprise you. Using the AUDITION button can give you a sense of what a performance can/will do. Watch the lights and knob indicators while the audition is playing - especially the scene buttons and the super know.

thanks Toby.
since i do like this particular preset and i use it in many perfornaces settings, i copied this preset to a user preset 'Acousic Piano DA II' and reduced the low freq amount. i call it 'the Elton John piano'. it sounds like most of his piano sounds 😎 .
i've mention this preset because that my reference when i need soundmans to set and reduce bass to my synth channel. some other presets are also producing a notable amount of bass and it disturbs the overall mix for the band.
since i reset the gain to 0db and factory reset the modx, and i have reahearsal today and the next day in a studio we're familiar with, it will be a good chnace to check if there is any posotive progress.
my other solution is to but a small stereo eq deck like Behringer FBQ800 V2 to be able to control the eq values. i hope this wont be needed. one more grea to carry.
i'll test it in the next couple of days to come and update you.
thanks a lot for your trouble 🙂