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CAN TAP TEMPO BUTTON BE QUANTIZED? ARE THERE ANY SETTINGS FOR TAP TEMPO BUTTON ON XF?

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 Paul
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Hi,
I’m using a couple of “fixed” arpeggios live. I tap the tempo button on the XF with the drummers beat and i notice that every time or 2 that i hit the button, the tempo number on the screen moves 1-5 bpm +/- and having hard time getting into perfect time with live drummer.

Yes, my rhythm and tempo skills are good, and i do hit it in good timing, it’s not me being that far off....no way.

Question is, is there a way to quantize the tap tempo button to quarter notes or sixteenth notes ect.?

Im wondering if the tap tempo button is currently set to quantize to 1/32 notes or something, and that’s why im having issues getting into time?

Any help is appreciated on this.

Thanks
Paul S.

 
Posted : 27/10/2017 12:37 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Quantize on Tap Tempo would totally defeat the purpose of Tap Tempo. It is predicting the tempo based on your input. Yes, YOUR input.

The resolution of the Tap Tempo is 480 pulses per quarter note. It takes at least three taps for it to predict a tempo, now the more taps you give it the finer to an actual tempo it will be. If the distance between the first and second Tap is longer than the Tap between second and third, it creates an average. This accounts for why it seems so way off to you. But if you were spot on accurate (and you are not) it would be as well. It may be hard for you believe that as a human being your sense of time is so raggedy but welcome to the species.

The distance between the first Tap and second Tap is observed, the third Tap let's it predict an average tempo based on your input.

If you want to prove to yourself just how far off you are (hard to believe as it may be) try recording a repeated middle C into the Sequencer without using the metronome... humans can play along with a metronome, but when they are the sole source of tempo, particularly when just starting, well, that's when you realize the time is raggedy, trust me (... or you can insist you have perfect time... I'm not going to argue the fact, as humans our time drifts, period).. Play it as steady as you can... then look at the data to see how very inconsistent you are.

There is a better way to use tempo driven items "Live"...
From a previous post on this topic......

If you are planning on using tempo driven effects, LFOs, Arpeggios, etc., “Live” or you need to feed tempo to other members of the band, there are the old methods and there are now some new methods to try.

In my humble opinion, the worst of these is Tap Tempo... now again this is my own personal view on the subject... if I’m tapping tempo, am I doing so trying to get my Arps, LFOs, Delays, back in sync with the band? (not a situation that I personally ever want to be in); the only time I want to be tapping tempo is during the count-in to the song, if at all... if I’m accessing that during the Song, then it’s already out-of-sync (something I want to avoid completely)

First thing, if you are using automated tempo in a band situation, then *hearing* the tempo is required by all players. *All* players, not just the keyboard player or as most bands do, just the (poor) drummer. Again, my personal opinion: most bands feed a click to the drummer so they have someone to *blame* when eventually timing goes wrong.

Imagine an orchestra where only the first violinist could see the conductor. The reason you want everyone in the orchestra following the conductor is obvious (hardly any other situation is foolproof. Why is it not so in any/every band situation? So MONITOR SPEAKERS are a minimum investment if you are going to attempt to use automated clocks in a Live situation. Trust me.

If the drummer *and* your automated technology are synchronized, this is usually enough to keep the rest of the members in shape... so I would work out with the drummer a method to solve the tempo issue.

An alternate method is to use an actual third party that is responsible for establishing tempo for the band. A metronome that can feed audibly to the drummer and directly to your keyboard's MIDI SYNC = MIDI.

Yamaha makes a basic (free) iPhone/iPad Metronome App that can be used as a Conductor. You can program it, select from different sounds, do odd time signatures, etc. and connected to the keyboard can act as the tempo source (MIDI SYNC = MIDI) and you can feed the headphone output for the drummer... since it can store setups you can put the drummer in charge of tempo (most bands do, as mentioned) and they can send accurate clock to your Motif XF. The person in charge of the app can even Tap Tempo or turn the dial...

You don't want things like Arps "close" to the beat, you want them to be locked in... this is why Monitor Speakers is a minimum, perfect timing can be achieved with a device that feed your XF the Reference tempo that the drummer is using.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 27/10/2017 3:25 pm
 Paul
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Bad Mister,
Wow, thanks for taking the time to explain the details of this. I now see the tap tempo button is not going to work and why it won't work for what we are doing, I did resign myself to the fact that a click track for the band is the only way to keep in perfect timing.

The musicians i'm working with do not want to have a click track, so i wanted to try the tap tempo button, but see it will not work now.

Going forward, I will review your suggestions on best ways to setup the timing and sync methods for future projects.

Thank again!

 
Posted : 28/10/2017 12:22 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

The musicians i'm working with do not want to have a click track, so i wanted to try the tap tempo button, but see it will not work now.

Having had to solve this for many bands in the past... Yes, in general you never want to present it as “a click track”... immediate flashbacks of having to concentrate and years of practicing scales to a metronome come to mind. You will likely get a negative response.

You have to present it so that everyone feels comfortable playing. You simply have to refocus the bands attention...

Presenting a drummer with a click is often just mean... not everyone can stick to it, because trying to “hold back” others who may be speeding ahead of the beat causes anxiety.

Have the drummer create a percussion part that compliments what they are doing. Playing along with it will be a relaxing experiencing rather than struggling to play with a click. A click has no feel, it’s just a noise and dead air, a noise and dead air...

The long story shortened... putting the tempo Reference (Conductor) in the band’s monitor speakers is ultimately the best way. Not a click, but something everyone is comfortable referencing... if you are using an Arp get everyone (individually) comfortable with playing along with it. Remember what you put in the Monitors does not have to go to front of house.

 
Posted : 29/10/2017 2:47 pm
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