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Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Out of interest, I connected the MIDI out of the Montage to the MIDI in of my Korg M3, went into 'Utility' - 'Settings' - MIDI i/o' and ensured MIDI IN/OUT was set to MIDI on the Montage - the little diagram showed Ch: 1 as the transmit channel, though I couldn't find anywhere listing the channels. I left 'Local Control' on (didn't make any difference off anyway except the Montage didn't sound). Ensured the Korg was set to receive on all channels 1 - 16 and that the sounds were working correctly. It and the Montage go through a 4 channel mixer to the speakers. Tried playing the Montage - not a peep from the Korg. Checked it all again, same result. The question is - am I missing something on the Montage? Thank you ...

 
Posted : 05/10/2016 2:52 pm
Jason
Posts: 7910
Illustrious Member
 

Many MIDI threads I cannot really help on, since I do not have a similar configuration. But this one, perhaps I can. Instead of a Korg as the MIDI slave device being controlled by the Montage - I have a Voce V3 organ simulator as the slave device being controlled by Montage. So other than manufacturer and sounds the device makes - all other things should be equal.

Of course, whatever MIDI channel(s) you're transmitting on need to match the Korg setup - but that's stuff you need to straighten out on the Korg side of the equation. For those details, I can't really help.

I didn't have the Voce (MIDI slave device) plugged in - so I went ahead and plugged it in.

Like you said - I checked to make sure the top of the screen has an icon that looks like a MIDI connector. It does - so I know Montage is in legacy MIDI mode and not USB MIDI mode.

To make things easy, I:

1) Pressed [CATEGORY SEARCH]
2) Pressed the "Init" square on the touchscreen
3) Selected "Multi/GM" on the touchscreen

I see this as a default setup for MIDI control - although you can certainly start at a different place.

One other item that's NOT Midi related is how the sound gets out of the Voce (for you the Korg) and routed to the speakers. For me, I take the output of the Voce and route it into A/D IN on the Montage. To have the sound come out the same speakers as the Montage, I have to remember to press the [A/D IINPUT ON/OFF] button so it is lit. Also, unlike what I did, a good idea to turn the gain all the way down first then play and turn it up to avoid blasting out the speakers if the A/D level input is high like it is for me (from the Voce).

So for me it "just works".

Configuring the MIDI slave (Voce for me, Korg for you - will be different in your case)

On the Voce, I have an "Edit" button. When I press "Edit" the very first parameter to change is the MIDI channel for the "Upper Manual". This is the main sound of the Voce the way I use it. It is set to MIDI Channel 1. If I set it to MIDI channel 2, I will not get a sound. So be sure your device is setup to receive on MIDI Channel 1.

Note: the Voce did get "messed up" where there was sound - but notes were not changing. I powered off/on the Voce and that issue went away.

... also, for some reason in order for the Voce to start responding to MIDI note data, I had to bump the mod wheel first. This seemed to "wake up" the MIDI receive. Before doing this, I did not get any sound after power off/on the Voce.

Hope something in there helps.

Of course there's the normal "MIDI out" on Montage to "MIDI in" on Voce type basic stuff.

There may be another thing to check - the MIDI clock out as on/off. For me it didn't seem to matter for the Voce although it would probably be best to turn on so everything is synchronized (more reliable assuming the controlled device uses it).

 
Posted : 05/10/2016 5:39 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

The question is - am I missing something on the Montage?

The Montage can transmit on as many as 8 MIDI channels simultaneously, from its keyboard and on as many as 16 simultaneously via its MIDI PLAY/REC function.

What you may be missing is the basic concept when you wish to use the Montage as a keyboard controller (that is, when you wish to play an external device either along with or simply trigger it via MIDI), it is best to use the Zone Master Settings so that you can intelligently manage internal and external selections. Once activated, this Zone Master function let's you customize each Performance as you require. The system allows you to treat the external device separately, or in combination with your internal Montage setup. In other words, you know that the Montage KBD CTRL setup allows you to play as many as 8 Parts, you can substitute an external device for any of those eight Parts, or you can set it so you can play just the external device. Even toggle back and forth between internal and external sounds within the same Performance program.

How to Turn On the Zone Master
Press [UTILITY] > touch "Settings" > "Advanced"
Set the Zone Master = On

This activates the ability to customize the Performances you use to control internal sounds or external sounds, or both. Each Performance will have two new screen options once the global ZONE MASTER is activated.

See page 63 of the Reference Manual for details of setting up your Performance Zone Settings, use these to control external devices. If you get stuck post back here.

If you don't use the Zone Master function, how the Montage transmits OUT via MIDI is pretty simple:
MIDI I/O mode = MULTI each Part 1-16 transmits to Midi Out on channels 1-16, respectively. Part1 on 1, Part2 on 2, and do on.
MIDI I/O mode = SINGLE you determine the single channel on which Montage transmits.

See page 17 of the must recent Montage Supplemental Manual (came with the download of version 1.20.x)

Final word: each Part in a Montage Performance is like a Motif XF. It sounds so simple to say, but it is like playing 8 Motif XF's - you can be transmitting on 8 channels at the same time. "DJ Montage" is an example of an 8 Part KBD CTRL Performance that transmits on 8 channels.

 
Posted : 05/10/2016 11:17 pm
Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hello Jason and BM - thank you for detailed responses. Finally got back to the Montage, and the first thing I did was test the MIDI cable itself with a multimeter. I found that only two of the five pins are active - pins 2 and 3, reading clockwise. Pins 1, 4, and 5 are not continuous. Now I don't know if this is as it should be - I remember that not all the pins are active in MIDI, but not which ones!

Having done that, I re-plugged Montage OUT to Korg IN, switched everything on - still nothing from the Korg. Your Voce, Jason, is similar to my Korg, but I route the output through a mixer to the speakers, rather than through the A/D on the Montage. The Korg plays fine, so I know that link is OK. I tried exactly your 'default' settings, but still nothing. I again checked the Korg is receiving on ALL channels, and that the Montage is transmitting on Ch: 1. I also set the Korg to 'External Clock' and the Montage clock to ON. I even tried jiggling the mod controls (a joystick on the M3). Nothing!

I then went through your advice, Bad Mister, and went the 'Zone Master' route (it was already on). Still nothing (I read Page 63 too, but it only said what you had already said) Also no joy. I am still MIDIless! It is not a big deal insofar as the Montage is quite capable of doing without the Korg - but I really dislike things not working when they should. I have the MIDI in/out mode set to single, and the Montage set to Ch: 1..So, unless the MIDI cable itself is faulty in having just pins 2 and 3 active, I'm a bit stumped!

Thank you both for your time and trouble! Much appreciated.

 
Posted : 07/10/2016 12:51 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

I then went through your advice, Bad Mister, and went the 'Zone Master' route (it was already on). Still nothing (I read Page 63 too, but it only said what you had already said) Also no joy. I am still MIDIless! It is not a big deal insofar as the Montage is quite capable of doing without the Korg - but I really dislike things not working when they should. I have the MIDI in/out mode set to single, and the Montage set to Ch: 1..So, unless the MIDI cable itself is faulty in having just pins 2 and 3 active, I'm a bit stumped!

You didn't do anything. Just because the Zone Master is On doesn't guarantee anything. That's like saying I opened the car door but the engine didn't start. Opening the car door is just step 1! πŸ™‚

Get a yourself a new MIDI cable. And then tell us *how* you setup the Zone within the Performance.
When the Zone function is active, the Zone setting for the Performance is given priority over the β€œMIDI I/O Mode” setting.. Read that sentence again for emphasis. When the Zone function is active, the Zone setting for the Performance is given priority over the β€œMIDI I/O Mode” setting.

Pick a Performance you wish to work with.
Reveal the name.
We will help you setup that Performance to trigger the external device.

Test the MIDI cable by plugging it OUT of the Korg to IN on the Montage. (I'm assuming you can work MIDI on the Korg).

 
Posted : 08/10/2016 1:56 am
Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - been brushing up on my MIDI facts. My MIDI connection is made up of all 3 of my extension cables because it needs to be 5m long - and at least one of those is faulty in that Pin 4 should be active as well - but it isn't. And Pin 4 carries the key command signal, so it ain't gonna work! I have ordered a new cable, but this being rural France I'm told (by Amazon.fr) that it could take up to 14 days to get here! 14 days! A horse and cart would be quicker ... anyway, I think I'll abandon the 'Zone Master' route and go to simple MIDI instead. I've owned many synths over the years - since before MIDI was invented even - and all those that had MIDI simply plugged OUT to IN and they worked every time. Why would the Montage be any different? So that's what I'll do when I have the new cable (which I'll test anyway!). I'll come back once it's all up and (hopefully) running, and thank you for the advice.

 
Posted : 08/10/2016 7:25 am
Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - an update in that, having a spare hour, I unhooked all the MIDI cables and tested them. Found the faulty one, which has been thrown out (Pin 4 was dead), and stretched two of the remainder between the Korg and the Montage, abandoned the 'Master Zone' format, single channel (Ch: 1) transmit, and it worked a treat. I must now await the new cable to tidy things up.

For interest, MIDI pins 1 and 5 are not used and should be inactive, but Pins 2, 3, and 4 should be active.

 
Posted : 08/10/2016 4:19 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

For interest, MIDI pins 1 and 5 are not used and should be inactive, but Pins 2, 3, and 4 should be active.

Not sure that is a true statement. MIDI cables only use three pins (to be sure) but 2, 4 and 5 if memory serves. I simply get a new one when they stop working. (Technically speaking, you don't count the pins 1-2-3-4-5 around the connector, they are laid out differently); just get a working cable.

Do not abandon the Zone Master, it's sole purpose is MIDI communication with external devices! You're going to need it.

 
Posted : 09/10/2016 3:17 pm
Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - you are correct - I was being logical, looking at the 5 pin male connector with the locator at the top and reading clockwise I named them 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. BUT in reality they are numbered 3, 5, 2, 4, and 1 clockwise, so correctly the inactive pins at 3 and 1, the active pins are 5, 2, and 4 which, confusingly, are the middle 3. Weird, huh? I hear you about the Zone Master, so once I get the set-up right and working normally, I'll go back and try the Zone Master route again. Thank you! Stay well ...

 
Posted : 09/10/2016 6:59 pm
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