Sometimes I run it standalone and sometimes thru Cubase.

Question: Which way, specifically, is there a problem? When running the VST standalone? When running it thru Cubase? Both?
Please verify and answer.

What I'm thinking is that you are clear on routing Midi from your Motif ES to the computer, but you provide no information on if or whether the computer is echoing this data back to the ES... which could cause your issue. There is no reason for the notes being sent to that VST to be actively sent back towards the ES. Do you see what I mean?

And since you don't mention that part of your setup, you may just be leaving it as it defaults.

The VST soft synth is typically, designed for you to record information in the computer (in the DAW). You are using the computer as a tone generator only... So no MIDI information needs to flow from that VST toward ES. (... If I'm understanding you correctly)

Also, I'm not at all familiar with the VST you mention and I'm not at all clear on whether you are generating arpeggio data in the ES or this VST generates its own data. Arpeggio data from the ES is generated differently than when YOU play the keys directly.

When you press the keys and send MIDI Note-on messages OUT via MIDI, this comes from a difference place from when the ES is triggering the external device via the ES's arpeggiator. It is no longer YOU playing the data, it is (in effect) the arpeggiator that is "playing" the external tone generator. Thus the difference in how things behave. You may only be holding down a C minor 7 chord as a whole note, meanwhile all this fabulous strumming and note picking is going on. Trouble happens when we 'forget' it is not us "playing" all of that, it's the technology generating all that from our very basic instructions.

Again I have no experience with your particular VST and I'm not exactly clear on how you are using it. But make sure that Midi data is NOT returning to the ES from that app. Hope that helps

The extra note-on signal ONLY occurs when the arpeggiator sends the MIDI out over USB to control the external VST. That's what I meant when I said it happens through the sequencer. The VST I am running is STRUM. It doesn't matter whether I run it standalone or thru Cubase, I get these extra note-on whenever I let the argeggiator send MIDI. No issues when I simply play the keyboard to control / send MIDI data to the VST. I thought maybe there is something wrong with my MIDI send setup.....? Is there something additional setting (on/off switch) within the arp or MIDI that I should shut off whenever I want the arp to send MIDI to external tone generators? If I got everything set up correctly on the Motif side, my next step would be to send the STRUM engineers SMF files from the Motif so they can see exactly what MIDI data is being sent from my arpeggiator and let them examine to determine if there is some problem with the way the VST is interpreting and playing what MIDI data is sent. You mentioned it might be some sort of echo but the held notes are different the the notes I played and sent.... Anything else you could suggest for me to check on the Motif side?

So if I understand this latest post, Strum is the name of the VST (see I assumed you were using it as an arpeggio) now it seems that you ARE using the Motif ES as the arpeggio... Is that correct?

If yes, then you must work with LOCAL CONTROL = ON within the ES, and you must insure that the arpeggiator's notes "dead-end" in the computer. They must not be echoed (thru'd) back to the ES.

I use the STRUM arpeggiator to convert MIDI data from the chords I play and record on the keyboard into more proper sounding guitar strums

To complete a mix of all parts for my songs (including guitar strums created externally), I run the Motif ES sequencer to record and playback both internal user phrases I created with local Motif voices AND I also send MIDI of chords I play to the external VST called STRUM. STRUM then in turn runs its program to convert the MIDI to the guitar strumming patterns which are then sent back to and played by the Motif thru A/D input when I start the Motif sequencer.

Sorry.. I'm sure that is all clear to you, but I'm having a difficult time following what you wrote.

So break it down for me: Are you using the Motif ES Arpeggiator or not? Forgive me but I have no experience with this VST "Strum" - and what it is or how it works or how you are using it.

You can skip how the data was created... just with what you are doing when you get the hung notes.

Yes, I am using the Motif ES Arpeggiator in pattern mode. I start the Motif arpeggiator to play a section that contains data I want the VST to play. The VST then plays correctly through its own arpeggiator. I am careful to only send to the VST, MIDI data from a single track on the Motif

When I then stop the Motif ES arpeggiator and look to the display screen on the VST, I see notes highlighted but I hear no sound. These are not the notes I played. I attached a screenshot from the VST just to give you an idea of the display. When notes are playing (meaning MIDI data is sent to the VSt) green dots appear and follow the corresponding notes played. I normally see no dots until I play; however, when notes hang I see green dots even though nothing is being played. If I then restart the Motif arpeggiator at this point, the VST plays both the highlighted notes and the notes that I recorded into Motif arpeggiator. If I want to get rid of the unwanted notes, I simply tap the corresponding note on the Motif keyboard, the hanging notes are then turned off and the VST arp correctly plays what I recorded.

I trying to figure out if the Motif arpeggiator could be sending any additional MIDI data thru the USB other than what I recorded on the one track that I set up to send to an external tone generator. My settings all seem to work fine (meaning the VST plays just what I play on the Motif, nothing more nothing less) so long as I play the notes. However, if I record the notes in the Motif arpeggiator and play them from the motif arp. Then, when the Motif arpeggiator stops, it then places what seem to be random note on instructions (the so called hanging notes) on the VST. These are notes I see on the VST display but don't hear until I then play something new on the Motif on the track sent the the external tone generator.

thomas wrote:

Yes, I am using the Motif ES Arpeggiator in pattern mode. I start the Motif arpeggiator to play a section that contains data I want the VST to play. The VST then plays correctly through its own arpeggiator. I am careful to only send to the VST, MIDI data from a single track on the Motif

This is very confusing because it's not what is happening. If the MIDI data is recorded to the Motif ES track 16... At that point you should stop calling it an arpeggio. An ES arpeggio is always real time data. Once you record it, it is no longer an arpeggio... It is Midi events on a track. You can view MIDI events on the ES sequencer tracks. Arpeggio data is real time, and cannot be viewed on any track UNTIL you record it. Once you record it, it then is considered MIDI event data and is indistinguishable from any other note data, any other MIDI events that can be viewed on the track. (And once it is recorded events you should stop calling it an arpeggio)

What you have written is that one arpeggio is triggering another arpeggio. That not only sounds confusing, it is confusing. Again, make sure no MIDI data is being echoed back to the ES.

When you say you "start the arpeggio to play a section" - know this: you can only start an arpeggio by touching the keys or having trigger note events on the track that trigger the arpeggio data. You cannot ever start an arpeggio by simply pressing the play button... Unless the trigger notes are recorded to the track. If you start the sequencer by pressing the Play button, and there are events recorded to the Track 16... And you have an arpeggio set to play, if this is the case any external device will not be able to tell the difference between the arpeggio generated notes and the trigger notes recorded to the track.

This could be the source of you "unknown" notes.

When I then stop the Motif ES arpeggiator and look to the display screen on the VST, I see notes highlighted but I hear no sound. These are not the notes I played. I attached a screenshot from the VST just to give you an idea of the display.

The view of the graphic interface does not really help me; the MIDI setup screen, if there is one, would be helpful.

When notes are playing (meaning MIDI data is sent to the VSt) green dots appear and follow the corresponding notes played. I normally see no dots until I play; however, when notes hang I see green dots even though nothing is being played. If I then restart the Motif arpeggiator at this point, the VST plays both the highlighted notes and the notes that I recorded into Motif arpeggiator.

? You mean notes you recorded into the ES sequencer. Because the arpeggiator does not record notes, again , it is real time only.

If I want to get rid of the unwanted notes, I simply tap the corresponding note on the Motif keyboard, the hanging notes are then turned off and the VST arp correctly plays what I recorded.

An external device cannot tell the difference between notes on track 16 and the arpeggiator assigned to Part 16... To a receiving device they are just incoming MIDI Notes.

Trigger Notes: those notes used to send instructions to the ES Arpeggiator
Arpeggio Notes: those notes generated by the arpeggio in response to the "trigger notes"

Both go out via midi. Those held notes are the ones you undoubtedly use to trigger (send instructions to) the ES arpeggiator. Of course they are held notes. That is what you played to trigger the arpeggiator.

I trying to figure out if the Motif arpeggiator could be sending any additional MIDI data thru the USB other than what I recorded on the one track that I set up to send to an external tone generator. My settings all seem to work fine (meaning the VST plays just what I play on the Motif, nothing more nothing less) so long as I play the notes. However, if I record the notes in the Motif arpeggiator and play them from the motif arp.

Again the Motif Arpeggiator cannot record any notes. It can only generate note events in response to either the Keyboard, or the Sequencer. The Sequencer can record notes. This is not semantics... It is at the root of your confusion - or at least I think it is.

Then, when the Motif arpeggiator stops, it then places what seem to be random note on instructions (the so called hanging notes) on the VST. These are notes I see on the VST display but don't hear until I then play something new on the Motif on the track sent the the external tone generator.

Ive read this sentence ten times and don't know what you are trying to tell me. But these ghost notes could be the result of bad routing.

Sorry that the best I can offer.

Bad Mister,
Thank you so much for taking so much time (mainly just to decipher my inept writing) After reading your latest reply, I think there is no arpeggio involved here. All I am doing is recording notes in the Motif sequencer then I press play to hear the sequencer play back the notes I recorded. I am simply sending the notes I recorded on one track to be played by the external VST instead of the Motif. All the VST is doing is converting the notes to play as proper guitar voicing, again no arpeggio. I think I will next try to send to the STRUM (VST) engineers, an SMF from the track and section that is sending notes to the VST and see if they can determine if there are specific notes sent from the Motif that the VST thinks its suppose to hold on after playback is stopped.

THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND EFFORTS TO TRY TO HELP ME!!!

No worries... That's what we do (or try to do)...

Remember this -and try an experiment to see... Most VSTs are designed so that the "trigger notes" are recorded in the attached host DAW. They are perhaps predisposed to expect that to be the source.

I mention this only because clearly you are sending notes into the VST from an external device. This may cause a difference in how it treats the data. And since the ES has multiple channels of data this might be the cause.

You want to find out if the VST is echoing MIDI information back OUT via MIDI (and how to stop it, prevent it from doing so... Because the ES will see this and attempt to respond - and might be looping the data)

Software is usually setup to receive all incoming MIDI data. Since MIDI Channel data is already encoded with the Channel # it is not typically a problem. Can the software be set to reject unwanted channels. That is, can you set a MIDI Receive channel? If not, solo the source "trigger note" track 16 and see if the random notes stop... That will tell you some thing.

Let us know.

I don't think the VST can be configured by MIDI channel. When I set up the VST MIDI inputs, (with the Motif ES connected) the VST shows four MIDI inputs for the Motif. I had been checking them all not knowing any better. I also have the option to tell the VST NOT to respond to either MIDI bank or program change data. By default, these two settings are and I have left them enabled. You mentioned, but I don't know how to check for any echos of MIDI back from the VST. I don't think that Cubase is involved in my held note problem because I have experienced held notes using the VST standalone connected directly to the Motif, through my laptop with no DAW running. It only seems to hold notes when I send MIDI on playback of notes I recorded into the sequencer. I am careful to ONLY configure my tracks to only send the one channel of notes out (track 16). I was reading that I can tell Motif not to send / transmit certain types of MIDI data, like sequencer start and stop events. Maybe the VST is misreading a sequencer stop as a held note on instruction? I think I need to perform a little more detective work to more precisely determine exactly what are the setting on Motif and VST when I get the held notes, then experiment a bit. The first experiment will be to solo the trigger note track 16 as you suggested....I will report back.

I don't think the VST can be configured by MIDI channel. When I set up the VST MIDI inputs, (with the Motif ES connected) the VST shows four MIDI inputs for the Motif. I had been checking them all not knowing any better.

Many VSTi do not allow you set Midi channel, they simply receive any incoming Midi data. The Motif ES can transmit on any single Midi channel. If you are seeing four Midi Inputs coming from the ES, you are seeing the four Midi "ports". The Motif ES's USB driver can work four Midi Ports - each has a different use. You should only select one port for your application.

Yamaha Motif ES-1 (Port 1) is the one you would use to communicate note-on events (key presses), controllers (MW, PB, etc.), and tempo information.
Port 2, 3, 4 could be assigned for things like the ES's PLG boards, or for remote controlling DAWs, etc. do not mark them all, know that you want to use "port 1" for controlling VSTi from the Motif ES.

Try using only port 1. A "port" is the equivalent of a bi-directional Midi connection. That is, it is equal to two standard 5-pin Midi cables, an IN and and OUT. A port has 16 Midi channels. You only need 1 Midi channel on that first port to trigger your VSTi