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Transitioning from MOXF to MODX - Thoughts?

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Looking to the future, I'm wondering what Yamaha keyboard would replace my MOXF. My hope is that the MOXF (I own 4 of them!) will outlive me but, if not, perhaps there are other models not on my radar that would suit my needs and ease the transition. (I've used MOX and MOXF for going on 12 years. Motif ES and S90 previously). That said, by the time a decision needs to be made, something just now in development will likely be on the market. Be that as it may....

My limited research into the matter over the last 24 months seems to point to the MODX as the "successor" to the MOXF. If so, I'm very curious to hear from fellow YamahaSynth members who made the transition so I might get some idea of their experience. Or maybe there is another MO series synth that I should be considering OR something due out in the near future.

Basically, if all my MOXF's crashed tomorrow what would I do?! And what should I be doing NOW to make sure I'm somewhat prepared?

Briefly, my initial concerns about the MODX were that it wasn't a sequencer and seemed aimed at a younger breed of musicians using Ableton, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc. to create Songs. I do NOT use a computer or DAW and that was and remains the main attraction to me of the MOXF. I understand that Yamaha added a 16 track sequencer program that works within the MODX. I have no idea if or how well that sequencing program works compared to the MOXF. I can see that the update was only possible because 90% of the procedures are dependent on the nice, large touch-screen. I guess the addition of a sequencing program is good news BUT (correct me) all of my Songs and Patterns would need to be "reduced" back to basic MIDI files to be re-voiced, re-mixed, inside the MODX. The prospect of rebuilding 50+ meticulously voiced and mixed and arranged Songs causes my left eyelid to twitch.

(I've been researching the best way to record all those SONGS (stereo only or maybe 4 track?) as MP3 audio files. For posterity. AND in case of an emergency, probably a good idea. BUT the idea of hunching over a computer, scrolling and loading and cue-ing up mp3 files like so many Jamey Aeborsold track-hacks? That twitch just now moved to my right eye.)

I enjoy the direct, tactile experience of being one-on-one with the MOXF, even when I know there are many time-saving and creative features that most basic DAW would include and perhaps the MODX sequencer offers them? For example, the ability to "humanize" MIDI drum part timing and velocities. If you're picky like me, it's very time-consuming to randomize those events on the MOXF. In Mix, having no way to "gang" faders is a pain. The steps necessary to preview and select a Preset Arp, then get it transferred into a Song are frustrating and tedious.

Speaking for myself, the most annoying thing about the MOXF is the inability to load more than 12 or 13 songs onto an All Song file. I end up having to break my sets into Part One and Part Two. Stopping to load an AllSong file in the middle of the set may not seem like a big deal. But that memory limitation hamstrings the 16 Master Mode "slots" touted as a combination set list/one-button song launcher. I rant about these MOXF foibles because if the MODX or some other model has improved on these things that would be a huge incentive. (I have no idea how the MODX manages the processing, saving, loading, etc of Song sequences. It appears that every Song or Pattern must be assigned to a Performance, which seems like just more convolution.)

Anybody care to share their impressions switching from MOXF to the MODX or to ????? I'd appreciate any and all feedback.

 
Posted : 12/01/2022 7:24 am
Dragos
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Eminent Member
 

I enjoy the direct, tactile experience of being one-on-one with the MOXF, even when I know there are many time-saving and creative features that most basic DAW would include and perhaps the MODX sequencer offers them? For example, the ability to "humanize" MIDI drum part timing and velocities. If you're picky like me, it's very time-consuming to randomize those events on the MOXF.

I have no experience with the MOXF, but maybe some videos about the MODX/Montage sequencing would answer some of your questions?
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/events/tech-talk-spotlight-montage-sequencer

(be sure to check the one on Play Effects for some possible answers to post processing of MIDI)

also these two articles:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/mastering-montage-modx-pattern-sequencer-features-in-os-v3
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/mastering-montage-pattern-workflow-and-recording-features-in-os-v3-5

 
Posted : 12/01/2022 11:47 am
Posts: 799
Prominent Member
 

While the MOXF can save MIDI sequences as SMF files, those will not include the sound assignments, and the mixing setups are not compatible with MODX, so your idea of creating MP3 (or better quality WAV) versions of your songs for posterity is best... and also something you'd want to do anyway if you ever want anyone but yourself (or another Yamaha owner) to hear the songs, or if you ever want to listen to them when not sitting at a MOXF. You can get an audio interface to bring those songs into your computer as audio files (or, if you don't have a computer, you can possibly use whatever other device you're using to access this forum, or maybe you can borrow access to a friend's computer), or you can get a standalone recorder like one of numerous models from Tascam or Zoom, like the Tascam DR-40X, which looks nice for including 1/4" line inputs and doing double duty as an interface. (I have no personal experience with these devices, though.)

Though short of maybe a theft or fire, the odds of losing all four of your MOXF at once is infinitesimal. And at this point, Yamaha still offers the MOXF6, and you'll probably be able to find used ones for quite some time.

 
Posted : 12/01/2022 1:06 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 0
 

Hi Steve,
I have spent many hours actually doing the transitions between products and create guides, tips and tricks, and best practices to get the job done most efficiently. It is a lot of work… no doubt. When you transition between products the hope is that the new keyboard be everything (exactly) like the one you own, just with some new stuff. In my experience that is hardly ever the case.

Here’s what has changed that causes the biggest differences. The most recent Motif and MO-series (the XFs) where based around a system where there were VOICES. When you wished to combine individual Voices you could:
1) - place four Voices, one into each Part of a “Performance” for simultaneous keyboard control
2) - place sixteen Voices, one into each Part of a Mixing for use with the 16-Track Sequencer, typically, one at a time

_If you used the Voice “Full Concert Grand” as Part 1 of MOXF Performance combined with “Upright Bass” — you could store this as a split Performance, piano in the right hand, acoustic bass in the left. What the Performance stores is not the Voice data, only where it is currently located and the information about the split point, etc.
_In the very next MOXF Performance, you might place “Full Concert Grand” in Part 1 combined with “Background” a lush string orchestra Voice in Part 2, across all keys creating a layer. You can lower the piano an octave. What the Performance stores is not Voice data, only where they are located, and info about the Note Shift, etc.

Point is, the MOXF Performances *reference* the Voices in the Preset Voice Bank locations. When you program a split so that the piano only sounds above middle “C” - what gets store in the Performance is a link back to the Preset Voice, paired with the information to sound C3 - G8. It meant that you could use the same Full Concert Grand differently in dozens of Performances - the Performance simply was a set of offsets to the original Preset.

There is no Voice mode in the MONTAGE/MODX. No reference need to be made between modes. You know, that on MOXF if your Performance or Song/Pattern Mixing *referenced* a User Bank Voice location, you had to make sure the correct User Voice Bank was loaded. If a different Voice occupied the User Bank location, it replaced the one that was there when you originally programmed it.

The new synths have so much internal memory compared to the Motif XF and MOXF, that there are only Performances with Parts. When you choose an instrument as a Part for your Performance, the new synths have enough memory to store a custom version of your data. No referencing another mode, and storing the offsets… you create a new Part for every Performance.

When you desire to interact with multiple Parts via the Keyboard, you activate a KBD CTRL icon that links them together. Any of the first 8 Part slots, 1-8 can be linked in this fashion. But unlike the Motif and MO series, instead of them sharing the same MIDI Channel… each Part’s data is output on a separate MIDI channel.

This allows you to link together multiple programs, and control some (or all) of them with their own Arpeggiator. Although the keyboard does not address the internal tone generator with MIDI, having the synth generate a separate MIDI stream for each Part you are simultaneously controlling means you can record everything that you play directly and you can record the MIDI Out from each Part being triggered by an Arpeggiator.

This allows you to create a backing rhythm section, for example, where you are linked to control Drum Kit, Bass, Guitar, Organ, Brass, Piano, Pad and Synth lead. The drums, bass and guitar are all taking commands from their own assigned Arpeggiator creating a rhythm section, you can morph the right hand between an organ and piano into the piano+pad, and at the touch of an AsSW (assign Switch) flip to a synth lead and/or the brass ensemble.

In the MOXF you had Performances that were 4-Part with some Arp’d Parts combined with playable instruments… well, this capability has been expanded to 8-Parts. And instead of having to use the Direct Performance Recorder routine where you played a 4-Part Performance and recorded it to either a linear Song or a looping Pattern Section. You could only play on a single MIDI channel… this meant your drums, bass, guitar and piano all output on a single channel! Yikes… imagine hearing that cacophony… the Direct Performance Recorder would process the data in a separate operation - then write out the data to the targeted sequencer mode… it would put Part 1 on Track 1 and set it Ch 1, Part 2 to Track 2 and set it to Ch 2, and so on for the 4-Performance Parts

That routine is no longer necessary because when using multiple Parts with multiple arpeggios, the MONTAGE/MODX can output each with the data as you hear it, each Part outputs on its own correspondingly numbered Midi Channel. It is still a Performance Recorder but it’s setup to accept the data straight away. It can transmit on 8 MIDI Channels simultaneously. Your drums will not trigger the piano, bass, and guitar Parts.

Because each Part has its own lane, multiple Arpeggiator can be used. When it comes to playing sounds direct from the keys, you have a variety of ways to change what’s happening. You can program different combinations, different mix levels, etc., all instantly recallable with dedicated switches.

Performing all of this also means you can record all of it… and you still have the freedom to go back and either edit or redo the Parts individually. The quest was to build an engine that provided more inspiration than just a clicking metronome… create an environment that supports and enhances what you want to do. Keep what is cool, replace what you wish to improve.

It’s a different workflow - and can inspire a different result.

Your MOXF MIXING setups do not contain the actual Voice data, only references to either a User Voice, or Preset Voice location elsewhere in the MOXF memory. Those instructions are meaningless to the MODX. So yes, eyelids will twitch… it’s a lot of work — you must redo all of the MIXING setups (data recorded to MIDI Tracks is transferable via .mid file format. It can be (slightly) less work than doing them all again from scratch!

Best Practice if this is too much
Definitely record all of the MOXF Songs as stereo .Wav files… (16 or 24-bit/44.1kHz stereo .wav) your MODX will be able to stream them from a USB stick, you can link them, by name, to a MODX Live Set slot. This means, you can access the audio by touching a LIVE SET slot, which will also recall the internal MODX Performance you wish to play along your stereo audio .wav. Audio will be output from the main MODX outputs (you can also plug in a microphone, apply two Insertion Effects, Reverb and Variation, if you sing… this too, will be combined to the main MODX output.

 
Posted : 12/01/2022 2:02 pm
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