I've been doing a lot of work with one of my favorite presets—11:CF StF1+— and want to save it as a separate performance, but the only way I know of saving will over-write this preset. How do I save it as a new performance without over-writing something already in the system? Tried to find this in the manual without much luck.

Thanks

Make sure you download a copy of the CP4/CP40 Data List booklet (pdf). The thing you need to know is the difference between Performances and Voices.

A Performance on the CP40 is made up of two Voices - the Voices are the individual instruments… you can place two Voices into the two PARTS of a Performance. The two Parts of a Performance are called the MAIN, and the LAYER/SPLIT

The MAIN Part contains one Voice.
The LAYER/SPLIT Part contains one Voice.
(The difference between a Layer and a Split is the Layer is across all keys, the Split divides the Keyboard into Upper (Main) and Lower (Split) regions.

There are 128 Performances… the ones that come in your CP40 from the factory are just suggestions. They are provided to give you an idea of the kinds of ways you can combine any two Voices into a Performance. They are designed for you to customize, change, overwrite to your needs. After all when Yamaha programmers create a Performance that is a MAIN and SPLIT, how could they possibly know where YOU require the Split Point? They couldn’t possibly… it is for you to customize to your liking — if you happen to like one, keep it but you are meant to overwrite them.

If you like a different MAIN Part Voice or a different SPLIT Part Voice, feel free to change them.

In the DATA LIST booklet see the list of 128 CP40 Performances.
Then find the list of Voices… notice there are many, many more Voices. These will never be lost, they will never be overwritten, they are like the permanent library of source material, that you can combine into any of 128 Performances.

You will never lose Voice 11: CF StFl+ — it’s in permanent memory. It can be used in multiple Performances. You might create a Performance that has it as the MAIN Part, and waiting as the LAYER Part, you might have a favorite Pad sound. A Performance can be stored with just the MAIN Part active, this way you can activate the LAYER manually. Or you can store the Performance with “CF StFl+” as the MAIN and your favorite Synth Bass as the SPLIT. And then a third Performance “CF StFl+“ as MAIN, and your favorite String ensemble as the LAYER… and so on.

Hope that helps.

If you SAVE your data to a USB stick you can keep a backup of your Performances. SAVE a file that contains the factory data this way you can reload it if you think you’re going to miss them. When you SAVE an “All” file — it will SAVE all 128 Performances (.C8A)
From that All file you restore either all 128 Performances at once or you can restore any single Performance from the list of 128 Performances in the All file (see Reference Manual starting at page 31 for details on FILEs).

I apologize for having put you through all that based on my using a bad example, though your explanation did greatly help in my perspective on voices within a performance. Let me start over.

What I'm trying to do here should be the most simple function possible: I want to "create" a performance with the "CF StFl+" voicing in the main part. I don't care about the layer or split parts: I'll let them be Strings, for now. I want to be able to duplicate the performance I create so that I can have a variety of settings within that "CF StFl+" voice. I want these performances to have their own unique names. What I'm finding instead is that there is no such thing as "creating" a performance, as you referred to it: there is only altering one of the stock 128 performances already in the system, which means the original performance will be lost, unless I make an external backup of it.

So I found a performance with "CF StFl," there being no stock performance using "CF StFl+", and no indication in the manuals as to what the + or - symbols on the voice name might mean. Since there appears to be no place to rename and save a performance without overwriting one of the 128 stock performances, I saved it to a USB drive, naming it "TEST-1." When I go to load it back into the system, following the steps on pages 33 and 35 of the Reference manual, things get confusing.
• I hit the "File" button and go to "Load" and hit Enter.
• I select "Performance" as the file type for "TEST-1", the only file on the drive, and hit Enter.
• Now I'm asked for a "Source Performance." Why? My source performance is the file I'm loading. What does this mean, that I need to choose a "Source Performance"?
• I play along and leave it at "001 (A01):CF Grand" and hit Enter.
• Now I'm asked for a "Destination Performance." My understanding thus far is that I'm to choose an existing performance I want to destroy by overwriting with my “TEST-1” performance, is that right? So I choose performance “128 (P08): Tape Combi”, based on the likelihood that I'll never use or miss it once it's overwritten.
• I hit Enter and it processes. "Now 128 (P08): Tape Combi" is named "128 (P08): CF Grand".
What happened to the "TEST-1" I was trying to load?

What I would greatly appreciate is a step-by-step on how to make the very simple thing happen. Any help you could be in getting me there would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Casey

PS: I decided just now it would be wise to do a full backup on this CP40, only to find that nowhere, in these astonishingly inept manuals, is there anything on how to do that. All I see is how to save individual performances to an external USB drive, one at a time. How can I do a full backup?

What I'm finding instead is that there is no such thing as "creating" a performance, as you referred to it: there is only altering one of the stock 128 performances already in the system, which means the original performance will be lost, unless I make an external backup of it.

That is correct. There is ONLY altering one of the stock 128 Performances…that’s correct!
And as I explained in the previous post, you can create a FILE (.C8A) which saves ALL 128 Performances… but allows you to restore any single Performance from your All Data File (or All 128)…that is correct. That is how it works.

The STOCK PERFORMANCES are just suggestions. Please Overwrite them!!! Please customize them to your needs.
The VOICES are your permanent library of instruments - they are Factory Presets
The PERFORMANCES are the combinations you make for use on stage - they are User creations… made from the factory preset Voices

Say you never ever use Strings… then that would be a perfect candidate for you to overwrite first.
Say you never ever play SPLITs… then again those would be perfect candidates for you to overwrite.
Rather then leaving the 128 User Performances blank — and letting the owner figure out the programming for themselves; Yamaha hired some of the most talented programmer/musicians on this planet, to assemble 128 Performance examples using the Voice Library provided with the instrument as the source material..

Where you went wrong:

Since there appears to be no place to rename and save a performance without overwriting one of the 128 stock performances, I saved it to a USB drive, naming it "TEST-1."

No, you did not. (This bit YOU made up… it is NOT how it works!)

You should have STORED the newly created “TEST-1” to the CP40s internal memory… by OVERWRITING one of the 128.

_ STORE = writing your program to the internal CP40 - pick any of the 128 Performance locations and OVERWRITE that location.
_ SAVE = writing a file to a USB stick

— only Stored Performances are written (saved) to a USB stick File — because you did not STORE your Performance, it was not SAVED to the File you made.

You made up your own step and it is where you got lost… you did not need to SAVE it (in fact, you cannot SAVE just one Performance. Notice it says “All” meaning you saved all 128 of the current Performances. When you ask what happened to your “TEST-1”? You never STORED it to the CP40’s internal memory so it never got saved!

You simply needed to STORE it — you should have directly targeted a Performance location, 1-128, in internal memory you were unlikely to miss. You’re getting it when you said that. Had you pressed [STORE] and targeted location 128, you would have been correct.

STORE your creation directly to internal
SAVE is for long term backup (keep the usb stick in a safe place).

Required re-reading — Page 29 Link —Store Performance Function

PS: I decided just now it would be wise to do a full backup on this CP40, only to find that nowhere, in these astonishingly inept manuals, is there anything on how to do that. All I see is how to save individual performances to an external USB drive, one at a time. How can I do a full backup?

And some times, I guess, it’s simply our ability to find it. Try the Reference Manual > under FILE

Taken directly from the Reference Manual…….page 32…

File functions
A total of six different functions can be executed from the File area — Save, Load, Rename, Delete, Format, and Memory Info.

NOTE: Before carrying out the steps described below, ensure that the USB flash-memory device is plugged into the instrument’s [TO DEVICE] USB terminal. If this is not the case, the instrument will display the message “USB device not ready” instead of the Save screen.
………………………………

It goes on to describe STEP-BY-STEP the SAVE Procedure with helpful pictures!
This will be what you do to SAVE ALL of your Stock Performances.

The very next section is 02: Load (page 33)
First, it explains how to LOAD ALL (with illustrations) — this would restore data in the file to the 128 Performance locations
Then it explains about “with System” settings, or “without System settings”. System settings are your preferences as setup in Utility mode.
The next section gives an explanation how LOAD a single Performance from an All File. (With more illustrations and step-by-step instructions).

Please make sure you have the Reference Manual. Page 31 through 35… take your time.
Let us know.

Link — CP4 STAGE/CP40 STAGE Reference Manual

Extra Credit
Please the Reference Manual section on BULK
BULK dump is a way you save just one Performance. A MIDI BULK DUMP allows a product to generate a long series of coded messages (System Exclusive messages) that can be captured by an external MIDI storage device or computer application. It will represent the parameters that make up the currently selected Performance. See page 28. Just FYI.

No, you did not. (This bit YOU made up… it is NOT how it works!)

Really? I "made up" this bit, and that's "not the way it works"? Ok, so in one sentence you've implied I'm a liar and an idiot. Nice work. The attached image shows the "Load" function in the LCD, pointing to the Test-1 file on the USB drive, which only happens if I saved it there through the save function (careful, though... I'm pretty good with PhotoShop so it's possible I conjured up this image to back up my clever deception... I have nothing better to do with my time).

I'm thinking at this point that what I have on my hands here with the CP40 is a poorly thought-out toy. I get it that what I thought was me saving a single performance was, in fact, saving the full 128, in which case it would be a misinterpretation of the directive and a mistake on my part, but I'm sure it doesn't warrant the insult of my having "made up" this bit of the story. Would it really have been so difficult for Yamaha to have anticipated the confusion this construct would create, and instead give us a way to build and store new performances internally?

It's of no great consequence at this point. Between this and other problems I've had with the CP40—including a factory-shipped distortion so bad I had to back the gain down to fifty and preamp the hell out of the keyboard going into Pro-Tools to alleviate—I've decided to put it up for sale and follow the advice I got, but disregarded, when buying: that the Yamaha was going to drive me crazy, and Kord was a better choice.

Your insult was the final bit needed for the decision.

Much appreciated.

Casey

No insult intended… sorry you misunderstood what is being said. What you are showing in your screenshot is the File you named “Test-1” that is not what is being attempted to tell you… what is meant, is your Performance, the one you created, is NOT in that file. Again, you cannot edit a Performance and then SAVE it to a File directly. There is one very important step in between… the step you missed is [STORE]. That is why I provided the info from the manual.

You must STORE the Performance to the internal memory BEFORE it can be included in the File.
In each All data File are the 128 Performances - the entire set of Performances stored in internal memory.
Rather then having 128 individual file items… the system is designed to SAVE ALL Performances to the File… then it gives you an option of loading either All 128 Performances back into memory or choosing to load just an individual Performance (overwriting just one slot).

What you needed to do was, follow the steps in the manual - Edit the program, and then STORE it to one of the 128 internal locations - overwriting one of the factory examples… perhaps Naming it “Test-1” as the Performance Name.

What you did was SAVE a File (containing the 128 factory examples) and you named that File “Test-1”
That is NOT your Performance, the All file you created contains all of the currently STORED Performances. However, since you did not STORE and NAME your Performance it is not included in the File you made. Only the STORED programs are SAVED.

Try it before you give up. Create a Performance, STORE and Name it “Test-1” — placing it in location 128.
Then make your File. Name the File something different… “My Test All.C8A” —

File Name refers to 128 Performances
Performance Name refers to just one program stored in internal memory

This file will contain the entire set of factory examples except #128 will be your recently edited/stored and now saved Performance “Test-1”.

It's me that owes you the apology, for letting my frustration get the better of me, and I do. In my own (weak) defense I'll say that some of us are better at digesting technical manuals than others, and all evidence indicates I'm on the more disadvantaged end of the spectrum. Probably has something to do with patience, I'm sure. Also, this CP40 is not the "poorly thought-out toy" I accused Yamaha of building. Its reputation speaks for itself, and if I can just get to know it, I have no doubt it'll give me the best of what i need.

I do understand now what you were trying to tell me regarding saving files to the external drive, and that makes sense, so I'm clear on that. I've got another matter at hand that's a puzzlement, though, one I'm trying to solve on my own, but running into a dead end after putting time into trying to make sense of it.

I want to set the EQ on a performance I've been setting up. The only EQ settings I can find are in the Pre Amp area found in Edit > 02: Part > 04:Effect B > Ctg: PRE > Type MIC3B-1 > Preset Basic. Going into that Preset Basic, I see a 3-band EQ setup allowing frequency selection and Q adjustments, which seems like I'm where I should be. Problem is, nothing I do in there is making any difference in my output. In fact, I can go back to the PRE > Type, scroll through the list of Pre Amp types, and nothing changes.. I can scroll through all the settings—all the flanges, reverbs, pre-amps, etc—and nothing changes. I have my chorus and reverb sliders all the way up, but all I get are what sound like stock settings that don't change with my scrolling selection.

So, what I need is to effect the EQ of my output on a single performance. How would I make that happen?

Thanks.

No worries. Please don’t give it a second thought.

The item you found is the Pre-amplifier section of the acoustic piano model. These are best described as like changing the microphone characteristic — the modeling portion of the CP4 and CP40 allow you to get deep into the innards of the acoustic piano data that is provided… this includes some modeling parameters - acoustic pianos do not have Preamplifiers but you can think of these “PRE” settings as shaping the sonic character is of the (virtual) microphones used.

The kind of EQ’ing you want to be doing is either the overall Master EQ or (more likely) an EQ you can apply directly to the individual piano (Insertion Effects).

The CP40 has a Master EQ which is to be used overall. You would use this to EQ the entire instrument to fit the room you are playing in. For example, if you are in a basement club with low ceilings and rugs on the walls and floor, you might want to brighten the instrument overall. This Master EQ applies to all Performances (the entire instrument).

What you want is an EQ that applies to a specific instrument Part in the Performance. These are available within the Performance’s own two Insertion Effects. Find and use the “VCM EQ 501” — a 5-Band Equalizer.

Insertion Effects
Assigned to individual Parts, insertion effects process the sound of the corresponding Voice. Two are available for use in a Performance, each containing two independent effects, A and B. Parameters for these effects can be set on the Effect-A and Effect-B screens from the Performance Part Edit area. In addition, the insertion effects can be conveniently turned on and off using the “A” and “B” PART EFFECT buttons from the control panel.

Edit > 02: Part > 04: Effect A or B > Ctg: Misc > VCM EQ 501

This is the EQ you can apply to the Part — it is a 5-band boutique grade EQ.
The Insertion Effect EQ can be stored with your Performance.

Next I would normally refer you to the videos we had posted on the site but they seem to have temporarily disappeared… I’ll put in a note to see if we can have them reinstalled here on the site.

But this should get you started - the VCM EQ 501 is an awesome equalizer… you can switch it ON/OFF as you may require.
Let us know.

[Edit]
Link — Understanding Performances in the CP4/CP40 STAGE

Link — Editing and Creating Performances CP4/CP40 STAGE