Thanks for the responses - I now understand what's going on more clearly. It seems Jeff's request is basically to be able have zones processed early enough in the flow to make it possible to not send certain zones to the internal engine. It does seem a bit puzzling that we can use the CP4 as a stage piano OR a master keyboard but not both. John's solution is interesting, I may experiment with this at some point.

I am hoping someday to get a Motif Rack unit and eliminate one keyboard from my setup. In my opinion, too many keyboards on stage hurts stage presence. Unless you're Keith Emmerson. I also hope to keep using the CP4. I love the action, it is outta sight. And the sounds are really good, too. Except for the drum kits. Maybe I'm missing something, but the drum kits in the DGX series are significantly better.

Wes,

With my solution you can do both.
It just disconnects the midi integration
to a level before the loop back and the synth/ piano engine after the loop back.

All the other selections behave as they should.

The only time it comes in to play is when you turn on Master Controller mode in a performance.

I went through everything to verify that all other performances and basic level sound play work as they should.

This could be put in to software so that you get an automatic break/loop/ thru to internal and external midi plug when selecting that parameter in a performance. Then we would not need the midi cord to loop back.

Then the midi out port could be out/ thru. Out in normal operation. Thru when master controller is in use.
Of course this would require some background re engineering by Yamaha to make the midi do a split thru to the internal engine and external devices.

Obviously my trick is a little rough but it gets the job done and doesn't interfere with any other use of the CP4. The only limitation is having a short cord there all the time and needing a midi solutions thru box to talk to external devices.

Perhaps they will give this some thought. Physically it looks simple.
Internally there will be challenges but I think they are the fun kind for Yamaha to work on. A little update that makes a big difference.

A solder junkie could do a hardwire switch and you could get rid of the cord but you lose the thru/out function.
I haven't opened it up to see if there is room.

Hope that helps

John

John, I'm aware of that option. Unfortunately, using that option, we lose some of the CP4's nice features, such as the use of the Split button to turn the bottom section on and off, and being able to quickly change the split point by holding the Split button and pressing a key. Also, loss of the use of the Layer button to turn a layer on and off.

Also, I'd have to reprogram all the Performances I use, using the master keyboard feature rather than the normal split/layer features.

My understanding is that the CP4 has a controller section, and the outputs from that feed two other sections in parallel: the master keyboard section (controlling what goes to MIDI Out), and the tone generator section (generating the audio). My suggestion would add a filter between the controller section and master keyboard section. That filter would be programmed by the master keyboard setup (the zone ranges and "local off" setting). By default, it would pass all MIDI note-on/off messages. With "local off" engaged for a zone, it would suppress MIDI note on/off messages within that zone, so they wouldn't be forwarded to the tone generator section.

I'd have to give it more careful thought to make sure, but I believe the proposed filter should not affect any other messages between the controller section and tone generator section. It would also have no effect on how incoming MIDI messages are processed.

If we don't like the term "local off", we could call it "suppress internal tone generator". Admittedly, the feature is subtly different than MIDI CC 122, "Local Off", which applies to a MIDI channel, rather than to a zone. It's also different than the global "Local Off" control that keyboards have, as recommended by the MIDI spec. However, since these two commonly implemented features share the same name and same function (but with different scope), it seems to me that "local off" for a third scope would be perfectly natural, and completely consistent with the MIDI specification:

"Channel Mode Message 122, Local Control, is used to interrupt the internal control path between the keyboard and the sound-generating circuitry of a MIDI synthesizer. If 0 (Local Off) is received, the path is disconnected. If 7fh (Local On) is received, normal operation is restored. Control should be switchable from an instrument's front panel. ... An instrument shold continue to send MIDI information from its keyboard while in Local Off."