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Understanding voice velocites

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 Tony
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I notice that all individual voices seem to have a default velocity of 110 even with the main slider starting at 100% but if I move the slider down then back to the top they ALL change to 127, not just the one that is currently selected. If I save a voice as favorite (with the shift key) the velocity reverts to 110 when I switch the piano off. Have I described this correctly?

This means that I have to check what the velocity is or keep fiddling with the master volume control to get a consistent volume mix with my sound module.

Is it possible to save individual voices at 127 so that the only variable is the master volume or do I have to create and save "single voice" performances to ensure that individual voices have velocities of 127?

I realize that performances have different part velocities but I am talking about the individual voices used on their own.

I also like to select layered sounds by simply pressing two of the voice buttons (one after the other) and I notice that the second press is always the layer and is always a velocity of 65. This means that the combined sound is very different depending on the order I press the voice buttons. Again, is it possible to start the layered velocity at 127 regardless of the order the buttons are pressed or do I have to use performances?

Thanks
Tony

 
Posted : 25/03/2015 4:00 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I notice that all individual voices seem to have a default velocity of 110 even with the main slider starting at 100% but if I move the slider down then back to the top they ALL change to 127, not just the one that is currently selected. If I save a voice as favorite (with the shift key) the velocity reverts to 110 when I switch the piano off. Have I described this correctly?

No, not quite. Velocity is how hard you hit the key. What you meant to say was that you have noticed that Voices which are programmed into PERFORMANCES have their PART VOLUME defaulting to Volume of 110, this is independent from where the PART SLIDER is located.

Well, yes, the first PERFORMANCE has its Volume for MAIN set to 110 and yes, the PART SLIDERs position is independent from the STORED volume value. When you move the slider and it reaches the STORED value, it does what is called "hooks" the value and the slider becomes live.

When you recall a PERFORMANCE the VOLUME value that is stored for that PERFORMANCE is recalled... You have noticed that at least on one of them the PART VOLUME = 110. It does not matter where the PART CONTROL SLIDER is located when a PERFORMANCE is recalled... and yes, that is a feature!!! And is designed to allow you to recall a PRESET Volume - YOU get to program what that Volume is when you initially recall a PERFORMANCE... If you do not like Volume STORED with a particular PERFORMANCE - you can change it, press [STORE] and update it to the value you prefer. Please start doing this.

This means that I have to check what the velocity is or keep fiddling with the master volume control to get a consistent volume mix with my sound module.

Again, this is not 'velocity' - you are checking the PART Volume. And no, you only have to "fiddle" with stuff when you don't know that you can STORE the value of the PART VOLUME to any value you like. This is highly recommended that you do. The original programmers have no idea what you are playing along with, nor could they possibly know how to balance it with your external sound module. Frankly, that is YOUR job.
🙂

Is it possible to save individual voices at 127 so that the only variable is the master volume or do I have to create and save "single voice" performances to ensure that individual voices have velocities of 127?

The words are close and I think you can do what you want - but your use of the terminology is not proper. If you mean:

Is it possible to STORE the individual PART VOLUMES at 127 so that the only variable is the MASTER VOLUME knob...?
Then YES, that is possible. But it is not the only variable... Sorry but it is a bit more complex than that...

Let me explain. The CP4 Stage has three PARTS: MAIN, LAYER and SPLIT. Any of the 400 or so Voices can be assigned to any of these PARTS. The three PARTS are like a situation where you have a MIXER with three input channel. Any 3 of the 400 Voices can be plugged into this Mixer. The MIXER's fader (the CONTROL SLIDER) controls the balance between the MAIN, the LAYER and the SPLIT PARTS. That slider controls the PART VOLUME... same as the Faders on a mixer control the volume going to the speakers.

But much like any three musicians who plug into a mixer - each of those musicians has their own VOLUME control... this control is separate from the sound person's Mixer (PART) Volume. It is called "GAIN", in the CP4 Stage (And is found on the same screen with VOLUME and PAN. Think of it like this. Three musicians: an Electric Piano player (MAIN), Electric Guitar (LAYER), and an Electric Bass (SPLIT)... are connected to the mixer (in a PERFORMANCE)

The Control Slider (PART VOLUME) is like the fader on a MIXER. Each PART has a Fader.
The Electric Piano has its own volume control, so does the Electric Guitar, and so does the Electric Bass... if you ever had a Rhodes piano and went to a recording studio or plugged it into a mixer - it is the same thing. The mixer has a fader but you have a separate volume control on the Rhodes. The Guitar player is in channel 2 - the mixer has a fader for that PART, but the Guitar has its own volume control as well.

The VOICE VOLUME is called GAIN.
The PART VOLUME is the Fader (Control Slider)

This allows you to set a Maximum Volume for each PART... it is really a professional system of control.

So what you want to do is setup the balance that you need. If you reduce the Voice GAIN to 0, it matters not where you set the PART VOLUME (Control Slider) - it would be like turning the Rhodes' own Volume control to 0 - no matter how much your sound guy tries to raise the fader, they'll get no sound because the control on the instrument itself is set to 0.

"Gain" is the knob on the front panel of the Rhodes. The "Volume" parameter is the fader on the mixer... make sense?

That is the structure in the CP4 Stage - it is slightly more complex than you have anticipated but the good news is you can (in fact, you should) set the Gain and Volume structure to meet your needs. Remember you are not playing VOICES - you initially select a VOICE and place it in a PERFORMANCE. This is the most important thing about playing the CP4 Stage. You try out VOICES, when you select one - then you must / should program the parameters to make it work for you - and when you get it like you like - press [STORE] and it will exactly as you like it.

The factory settings are meaningless - beyond just giving you an idea of what is possible. Please, please, please, edit them, change them, overwrite them.

I realize that performances have different part velocities but I am talking about the individual voices used on their own.

Voices are not meant to be used on their own.
The CP4 Stage has no VOICE mode. VOICES are selected to use in a PERFORMANCE. It is all about those PERFORMANCES. If you have not programmed any yet, get busy! 🙂

Voices are not meant to be used on their own... you audition Voices individually... then you set a VOLUME, set the Effects, assign controllers setup your Master Keyboard Function if you are transmitting out via MIDI, etc., etc., etc. finally you NAME and then you STORE the whole thing to one of the 128 PERFORMANCE locations.

I also like to select layered sounds by simply pressing two of the voice buttons (one after the other) and I notice that the second press is always the layer and is always a velocity of 65. This means that the combined sound is very different depending on the order I press the voice buttons. Again, is it possible to start the layered velocity at 127 regardless of the order the buttons are pressed or do I have to use performances?

Again, absolutely yes....

Please try the following:

Recall PERFORMANCE 001: CFX
This is the PERFORMANCE where the current Volume of the LAYER PART is 65... this is not always the case, just happens to be where you started.
You can set the LAYER PART to 127; the MAIN PART in this PERFORMANCE is set to 110. You can change this to 127... Press [STORE] you have now updated the MIXER's Faders - now any VOICE you select for the LAYER will be 127.

Press and hold Piano + Pad.... the VOICE that you have elected to be "on top" of the Pad Category will immediately come in at a Volume of 127... because you set the Mixer's Fader Volume to 127. Hold Piano and touch Choir... the Voice you have elected to be "on top" of the Choir Category will now layer with the piano at 127... If that is what you want. You can set the Volume values to whatever you wish.

Registering a Favorite
You can set which of the Voices in each Category is "on top" when you touch the button. This i called registering a Favorite for a Category. Say you want the Voice 25: "Soft Pad" to be the sound on the PAD CATEGORY button when you want to select a LAYER on the fly... you can register it there by recalling it, then hold SHIFT + PAD = the CP4 Stage will write this into your memory as the Voice you want on top of that Category when you press the PAD button.

What you discovered:
It just happens that the PERFORMANCE 001 has the MAIN Volume set to 110 and the LAYER Volume set to 65. You can certainly change everything about PERFORMANCE 001. Everything! Another PERFORMANCE will undoubtedly have different setting for MAIN and LAYER... I doubt if any are exactly the same.

We highly recommend that you spend some time going through the basics of PERFORMANCE mode in the Reference Manual - it will help you get over these basic stumbling blocks. You cannot hurt anything or lose anything by editing - you can always recall the Factory Set of suggestions - at any time. So experiment away. If you get stuck, please just post back here. I think you will discover that you can do exactly what you need to do.

Remember: each PERFORMANCE stores the VOLUMES of the PARTS, the VOLUMES of the VOICES and all your settings. It is all about those PERFORMANCES. the VOICES are really just building blocks - to build into PERFORMANCES.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 25/03/2015 8:35 pm
 Tony
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks for the response

I have understood how to program and use performances from the first time I read the manual.

I guess where I was confused was that I assumed that when I switched the piano on I could ignore performances and simply play voices on their own or layered, by simply pressing the voice buttons in a kind of "manual" mode. This is how I play my P200 and CP33. This is also why I was expecting the voice volumes to all start at 127 and then I would use the master volume and sliders to set the required volume each time I played.

I now realize that I need to program everything into performances, there is no "manual" voice mode.

Tony

 
Posted : 26/03/2015 12:33 am
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