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Well... After trying CP4, CP40?

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Dont get me wrong. I loved the CP4 but struggled with the weighted keys of the NW-GH3 keybed.

As I need to downgrade to the CP40 (budget wise), can someone with experience explain if the CP40 Graded Hammer keys feel less heavy when played?
Bad Mister?

Thank you.

 
Posted : 14/02/2018 6:37 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

As I need to downgrade to the CP40 (budget wise), can someone with experience explain if the CP40 Graded Hammer keys feel less heavy when played?

The description of how it feels when played can only be answered by the individual. “Do these shoes fit my feet?” Is an equivalent question... only the person whose feet are in the shoes know if they fit.

If you struggled with the Natural Wood Graded Hammer Triple Sensor action, I have no idea what that would mean about how YOU would feel about the CP40 action. I’m afraid you will need to try one on yourself!

 
Posted : 16/02/2018 6:15 am
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I read that the Balanced Hammer action (BH) of the Yamaha S90SX / Motif XS8 / Montage 8 is less heavy to play than the Graded Hammer action (GH).
Can you confirm this ?

I have no chance of trying one of these keyboards, hence my question.

Thank you.

 
Posted : 16/02/2018 9:42 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Balanced Hammer - the same weight is used across the entire keyboard
Graded Hammer - the weighting is zoned so that action is heavy at the low end and is increasing less heavy as you ascend the scale.

Balanced Hammer is one of the weighted zones of the Graded Hammer extended across all Keys.

So saying it is more or less heavy depends on where the person describing was judging this. Some of the zones are lighter, some are heavier. One of the zones is actually the same as the Balanced Hammer... So some one else’s description can be right or not. It’s an opinion. Only yours counts for you.

Graded Hammer mimics a piano, Balanced Hammer, found on the top-of-the-line synths with 88 Keys, features Aftertouch.. piano is only one of many sounds a synth needs to cover.

The Grading is subtle, unless pointed out specifically most player just sit and play it and like it, they do not immediately *notice* that the weights are getting less as you go up the scale... they just go “this feels good...” it doesn’t hit you like a ton of bricks. I’d say the majority of players don’t analyze why they like it, they just play it and react. Many play it for years and don’t consciously realize the “grading”.

Okay, so this is like describing ice cream... you’re still going to have to try it to know! N’est pas?

Velocity response is also adjustable, which is the other wildcard. Action is described as “heavy” if it is perceived to take a significant effort to get loud. Well that’s a user adjustable parameter... by setting the Velocity Curve to “soft” You can make it so it takes less effort to get loud. This is accomplished by adjusting the tone engines response to the player’s effort input. This psycho-acoustic adjustment can greatly influence your “feel” about the keyboard.

There is a woman somewhere in Ohio who comes to mind when this subject comes up... the MOX8 and MOXF8 were among the first Synthesizers we put a Graded Hammer action on. It was extremely well received... but the point being, I was there at a store to do a presentation to customers... she had tried the MOX8 and had decided the action was “too heavy”, she was having problems with her hands and it was taking too much effort, it was hurting her hands... she wanted to know if we made something that wasn’t so resistive, so “heavy”...

I explained to her that much of that is due to our expectation of output for the amount of effort input... something we as humans do automatically. Just like you adjust your speaking voice by the balance of hearing your voice internally (in your head) and externally (through your ears). This delicate balance is immediately thrown off when you pop on some headphones. Now your internal balance says “speak louder”, you only realize you are shouting by how everyone else in the room is looking at you with that look “why is this person shouting” look... speaking while you are in headphones totally masks the amount of effort you are using to speak... you are not immediately aware that you have changed the amount of effort... well, there is an expectation of how loud a piano should be by the amount of effort input you are applying. It’s import to get it right.

Anyway, she wasn’t buying this as having anything to do with the action being so heavy - in her mind it’s a physical thing. So I asked her was this the same MOX8 that she tried out. She said absolutely. It was all I could do to get her to sit and play it... I changed the Velocity Curve to “soft”. Less effort to get loud... when see played it, boom! you would have thought I was was one of those magicians that does some impossible thing like making a car disappear. She couldn’t believe it was the same keyboard.

Again, it’s subtle, Music is all about these subtleties. Yamaha as a company is all about keyboards, keyboard action, and studying how musicians play. But we do know it is “personal”, and into the products is built adjustability.

But you must play them... it’s why we have dealers with stores so you can go play them!

I hope this is helpful from the “how does it feel?” Point of the question.
I will offer this, the CP4 STAGE will ultimately pay for itself... if you like it, keep it. Do the math... how many gigs a year, how many years potentially the keyboard will last you, the difference in price between CP4 and CP40, now cost average the price difference over the years of gigs... it’s now down to an amount that will convince to keep the instrument you enjoy!

 
Posted : 16/02/2018 3:02 pm
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