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Can you connect any Motif ES controllers to affect PLG 150 DX native parameters?

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thomas
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I have a PLG150 DX board installed inside my Motif ES. I know I can connect controllers over Motif ES effects that I build into any PLG user voices, but can I also assign any of these same Motif controllers, specifically either FC1 or FC2, to control any of the FM board parameters from the PLG board preset voices or PLG user voices I create? If I go to Voice Voice, Edit, OSC, Native, on the last screen I see that I can set MIDI controllers over Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity. I can choose between MOD, BC, EXP, CAT or PB. I tried each but so far haven't heard any of my controllers affecting the sound. I will keep trying, but wanted to see if its even possible for my ES to do this. My first choice for source controller would be one of the foot controllers. Would I choose EXP (expression pedal) for this? If so how does Motif know / translate/ connect EXP to FC1 or FC2?

As an aside, I do have the DX Simulator software installed on my laptop. I can open it and navigate through through it, BUT, am unable to make a connection with my ES. Therefore, the only way I can address the PLG board is through whatever editing is available directly on my ES. If there are additional settings required to connect any of my controllers,then, I might be out of luck..... Still investigating how to troubleshoot the DX Simulator to Motif connection problem. I don't know it my laptop running Windows 10 can look back far enough to connect such on old software application as DX Simulator. Do you know the latest version of Windows which ran DX Simulator? I am looking into setting up a virtual machine (OS) inside my laptop or finding old drivers from whatever OS the Simulator was designed to run on.

 
Posted : 04/08/2019 5:17 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

The “DX Simulator” edits the PLG150-DX. The PLG150-DX contributes the Oscillator for the Motif ES. Usually, it is a Sample Waveform that contributes the Oscillator.

So there are two Editors... one to create the Oscillator (DX Simulator)... then when you open the “Motif ES Editor (Voice), in the place where usually it points to a Sampled Waveform you will see one of the Banks on the PLG150-DX.
Motif ES Download page

As an aside, I do have the DX Simulator software installed on my laptop. I can open it and navigate through through it, BUT, am unable to make a connection with my ES.

We should try to get this communication working. There are some MIDI IN and OUT settings, a MIDI Channel Setting, a Part Number Setting and a Device Number Setting

Open the DX Simulator
The DX Simulator is the Voice Editor for the PLG150-DX. An important thing to realize is that the DX Board is designed to reside in a wide variety of Yamaha products (Motif, Motif Rack, S90, S80, CS6x, CS6R, MU-series, etc) – so although the “VOICE EDITOR for MOTIF ES” can edit PLG sounds at the Motif ES Voice level, the DX Simulator actually deals with Board Voice itself. The “VOICE EDITOR for MOTIF ES” is a Motif ES editor – it can edit a Motif ES Voice whether that Voice is pointing to a sampled waveform or an FM waveform. It applies Motif ES parameters to the waveform on the oscillator/wave screen.
• Press EDIT
• Press Track 1 to select Element edit
• Press [F1] OSC
• Press [SF1] WAVE
It is on that screen where the Motif ES Voice 'points to' either a sampled wave (Preset or User) or to a PLG150 Board waveform (Preset or User). The DX SIMULATOR allows you to edit the User bank of the PLG150-DX Board. The DX Board has many preset banks and one User bank (035/000). The DX SIMULATOR is a specific editor for the 035/000 bank. And like most Voice editors it works while the host product is in Voice mode. But let’s say you want to tweak a PLG150-DX sound while the Motif ES is in a multi-timbral setup. This is possible if you tell your computer where to find it. Here is what you need to know:

• If you are working with the PLG150-DX while in Voice mode, your MIDI interface will address the board as a part of the host product. So you would address it on the first port, PORT 1. It will not matter the PORT assignment of the PLG150 Boards – as long as you are in VOICE mode all Motif ES Voices are addressed on the internal Motif ES Port assignment, which is fixed at PORT 1.

• When addressing the Motif ES from an external MIDI sequencer (MIXING mode), it is common practice to set the PLG150 Boards on a separate Port from the host product. The Motif ES is fixed at Port 1 and often Port 2 is used to communicate with the PLG150 Boards (this allows them to be addressed on separate MIDI channels from the internal Parts thus breaking the 16 MIDI channel limit). This will be true whether you are using USB-MIDI or mLAN-MIDI as the interface for your sequencer.

• In order to address the Plugin Part while the Motif ES is in Song / Pattern MIXING mode, engineering has come up with a method to address the boards by slot and channel assignment. In the DX Simulator Setup you can select a parameter called the “Part No.” (Part number). By setting the Part No. parameter and MIDI channel you will be able to address the PLG150-DX while the unit is in a multi-timbral setup – allowing you to tweak the sound in context of the music it will be used. The Part Number assignment is accomplished as follows:
o Slot 1 = Part 16
o Slot 2 = Part 15
o Slot 3 = Part 14

USB
Typical setting for when the using the Motif ES as the host and USB as the MIDI interface… MIDI IN is set to “Yamaha USB IN 0-1” – MIDI OUT is set to “Yamaha USB OUT 0-2” (the PLG150 boards are set to be communicated to via PORT 2 in the Motif ES. The PLG150-DX in this example is in Slot 1 (Part No. = 16), and is assigned MIDI channel 1.

 
Posted : 04/08/2019 10:36 pm
thomas
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Phil,

I don't think I will be able to make a connection between my Motif ES and the DX Simulator software. Assuming not, is there any way to assign Motif ES controllers for real time control over any DX board / FM synthesis parameters?

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 2:04 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Assigning Motif ES Controllers takes place in the “Motif ES Editor (Voice)”
Why are you assuming you will not be able to connect to the ES... USB is working. Do you have both Editors?

The parameters listed under the NATIVE PARAMETER can be offset in the target Board Voice.
It’s been more than 13 years since I had an ES, so you’ll need to try/verify everything

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 10:15 am
thomas
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Lets just look at whats possible without any outside / external editors, just what I can edit and control from the ES. The last screen in the NATIVE PARAMETER screen on the Motif ES allows me to choose to assign various controllers to a DX PLG board parameter called Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity. It doesn's seem to work, meaning no matter which controller I assign and move, it makes no affect on the sound. I understand it will only make a difference on certain voices containing certain settings, but so far I haven't found any to affect. I know I have 912 to look through....I just wanted to make sure the architecture of the Motif ES does indeed provide for its controllers to be assigned to this FM / PLG board parameter, In other words, I should keep looking.....There must be at least one voice affected in there, or else why provide for an ES controller assignment in the first place. Is it only those voices with "EG bias?" Can you explain what EG bias is?

I didn't think that the DX Simulator software or Voice Editor software was needed to make Motif ES controller assignments to any PLG board parameters, Correct?

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 1:43 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

“EG Bias” is a parameter within the FM engine that allows for dynamic change.

The EG is short for Envelope Generator. In a Synthesizer an EG describes the shape or how a parameter changes. An Amplitude EG describes how a sound starts at Key On, how it changes levels as it continues and how it disappears when you let the key go (Key Off).

When thinking about musical tones there are three main components to control Pitch, Tone, and Loudness.
EGs are used to describe changes in these over time.

When “bias” the EG, you are telling it to change its shape — increase or decrease the amount of influence it has.

When Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity is Set to a value other than 0, you can use a Controller to adjust the amount of influence that is allowed.
In FM, the Operator responsible for Loudness (Sound output) is the Carrier, the Operator responsible for Tone (Timbre change) is the Modulator.

If Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity (AMS) is a value 1-7, and you target a Carrier, the more Controller you apply the Louder the resulting sound will get. Usually this loudness Function is applied by key Velocity, but imagine you select Aftertouch as the controller... pressure on the Key will increase the loudness.

If AMS is a value 1-7, and you target a Modulator, the more Controller you apply the brighter the resulting timbre will get. Imagine you select Aftertouch as the controller... pressure on the Key will increase the brightness of the sound.

Instead of Aftertouch say you “bias” the change to the position of the MW. Then as you raise the wheel you will get a different response on subsequent notes. (What that means since an EG takes place over time, changing a parameter causes no change until you start a new Envelope (trigger a Key)

In the original DX7 engine you had Pitch and Amplitude... Depth could be applied fulltime or you could “bias” it to a controller.
Here’s what that means, if you set PMD (Pitch Modulation Depth) to a value other than 0, you will hear that change all the time. If, however, PMD is Set to 0, you can use a Controllers position to determine the application of change.

Vibrato is applying a Low Frequency Oscillation to Pitch. If PMD has a value, you will hear vibrato at all times.
However, by setting PMD = 0, and “biasing” Pitch Modulation control to the MW, the vibrato is only applied when you move the MW.
The MW becomes the applicator of Depth... the farther you move the MW the more vibrato that gets applied. MW = 0, no vibrato.

On the original DX7 you will find most sounds with a PITCH MODULATION SENSITIVITY set to 3 (on a scale that goes 0-7) and most times the PMDepth is 0. The MW is used as the controller “biased” to apply the Pitch Mod Depth (vibrato).

It is a rare programming situation (or I should say, it is found less often) where the sound is setup for Amplitude Modulation (Tremolo in common musician language) so you may find less Voices programmed to respond here...

When the Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity parameter of a Carrier is set to a value other than 0 (1-7), this lets you use the selected controller to change the volume in real-time. When the Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity parameter of a Modulator is set to a value other than 0 (1-7), this lets you use the selected controller to change the timbre of the sound in real-time. Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity can be edited by using the DX Simulator editing software.

AC4 CC No. chooses the controller MW, BC, FC, EXP, CAT, PB
AC4 CTRL Parameter 1 determines if set to “EG Bias” or not
AC4 CTRL Depth 1 determines the direction of application -64 thru +63 (obviously MW only goes in one direction, same for BC, FC, EXP and Channel Aftertouch. Choosing a negative value here changes the direction of application.

In the screenshot — on the left is the Motif ES Voice Editor; on the right is the DX Simulator.
In this particular sound, the Motif ES is Set to use the Modulation Wheel to apply Amplitude... (See the “Native Parameter” box)
Additionally, within the DX Simulator to show the difference, I've set Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity of the Carrier (Op1), but I also set Amplitude Modulation Depth to 37

What that translates to is the entire volume of this sound is “biased” to the position of the MW. When MW is down, no sound at all.
However, inside the DX Simulator, I’ve set Amplitude Modulation Depth to 37 (means fulltime Tremolo) but only when there is sound.

The MW has to be advanced in order to fade in the sound... so when you fade up the MW not only does the sound come in, but it comes in with full-time Tremolo...

Extra Credit:
The DX Native Parameters as shown in the Editor should be accessible from the Motif ES. Sorry, I don’t find any screenshots of it... but I’m pretty sure the Editor did not add any parameters you cannot get to from the ES front panel.

The PLG150-DX parameters are only accessible from the DX SIMULATOR... after all the PLG150 is just card, it has no screen, no buttons, no nothing to access it’s parameters. The link between the two is one-way... in that the Native Parameters are applying offsets to the “Board Voice” which is stored on the PLG150-DX. This way those offsets get stored with the Motif ES in what is called a Motif ES Plug-in Voice...

Attached files

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 7:33 pm
thomas
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I understand that the Native DX Parameters are only accessible from DX Simulator, but to the extent that a PLG board voice has an Amplitude Modulation Sensitivity parameter of a Carrier set to a value other than 0 (1-7) can I then affect the sound with ES controllers? I apologize if I am too naive to explain myself better or am not fully comprehending what you are saying.... You keep going back to the DX Simulator & Voice Editor, but all I want to know is how / if I can map/connect Motif ES controllers to any board voices. Do I need either the DX Simulator and/or Voice Editor to map controllers?

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 8:47 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I keep going back to this because, unlike you, I do not have a Motif ES (haven’t had one in more than a decade)... so I’m working from memory and manuals, only.
When you press the Native Parameter button in the ES, What parameters appear? That’s my question for you...

As I recall, when you call up a Plug-in Voice, you have pretty much the same editing functions as any Normal Voice.
In VOICE mode recall a Plug-in Voice from the DX slot
Press [EDIT]
Here you will find a full compliment of Voice Edit parameters, including the [F4] CTRL SET (Control Set).
You can assign Arpeggios, MW, AT, Assignable Control, Effects...

When you drop into the Element Edit - this is where the Motif ES parameters reference the 035/000 WAVE Bank of your PLG150-DX.
You can offset velocity, Note Shift, Setup a Pitch EG, apply a HPF, etc.

At [F4] NATIVE you should be able to access the DX specific parameters

Please see the Motif ES Owner’s Manual pages 205-207. “Plug-in Voice Edit”

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 9:59 pm
thomas
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Topic starter
 

Phil,

Attached are the last two screens from the ES Voice mode Edit for PLG - Element - F4 NATIVE. They just don't seem to affect anything. I have been experimenting with all the other pages in NATIVE for all the carrier and modulator offsets, and am learning how they all can affect the FM sound, all good.... However, these last two pages/sets of edits just don't seem to do anything. I thought, right or wrong that one could actually map an ES controller to an FM parameter and thereby allow me make real time changes to an FM board (native) parameter while I play, but maybe not... Whatever light you could shed on these two sets of edits would be appreciated.

 
Posted : 05/08/2019 11:34 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

See, I knew they were there. Unfortunately you cannot guess when it comes to assigning these.
Those are the exact same parameters in the Editor’s DX Native Parameter box.
Again,

AC4 CC No. chooses the controller MW, BC, FC, EXP, CAT, PB
AC4 CTRL Parameter 1 determines if set to “EG Bias” or not
AC4 CTRL Depth 1 determines the direction of application -64 thru +63 (obviously MW only goes in one direction, same for BC, FC, EXP and Channel Aftertouch. Choosing a negative value here changes the direction of application.

Translation:
A Depth of 0 mean no change... you have set the FC to control application of EG BIAS, But a Depth of +00 will mean no change... a positive value or a negative value will determine if you are increasing or decreasing the application of change. Setting it to a positive value will cause a situation where the FC must be applied to increase output. By “biasing” the EG, to the FC, the FC will become the main influence for output amount... the more toe-down the pedal the more application... FC is Foot Controller 2.

I thought of your question when reading the PLG150-DX Owner’s Manual:
“Note: Depending on the selected voice and the particular parameters being edited, the soundor actual parameter value of certain voices may change very little or not at all, even when the parameter value is changed drastically.”

Don’t get discouraged. There is a method to this madness... Again, guessing may yield no results... it might be a good idea to work on a specific FM Board Sound. That way we can communicate on how it should change.... You’ll want to be familiar with the workings within the FM Board Voice (Element), so that assigning controller is NOT guesswork!
Learn which Operators are Carriers (and therefore responsible for loudness) and those that are Modulators (and therefore responsible for changes in timbre).*

* Carriers can also be responsible for timbre change when there are more than one Carrier sounding at a time. In other words, all Carriers can output sound, but combining two or more Carriers tuned differently will also be heard as a change in tone (think drawbars) on a B3 any two drawbars in combination are heard together as a new timbre. Drawbars are sine wave generators much like Operators that are Carriers.

I see you have Offset the Feedback by setting it to +7 — case in point, look in the DX SIMULATOR at the Operator featuring the Feedback loop. What is it set to? If it is already 7, then your offsetting this +7 in the ES will have absolutely NO EFFECT since for Feedback, +7 is the theoretical maximum.. If it already is at maximum... adding +7 is meaningless, adding any value is meaningless... however, applying a -7 to a Feedback setting that is already at max will *reduce* its influence when applied. The only way to know is to look at your Feedback setting in the FM Board Voice (DX Simulator)

This is complicated like this because the PLG Board is passive. the Board Voice has its settings, but no Knobs or Sliders... you are addressing certain parameters from the Motif ES Host... they send sysex messages to which the board responds. The PLG150-DX is an external synth which you are addressing via these parameter offsets. The ES does not “know” the Feedback setting of the DX Board... it simply has a sysex handle to increase or decrease it. That’s why the Carrier and Modulator parameters go positive or negative... the ES does not “know” where the Board Voice Output Level is Set... it simply allows you to increase (add) or decrease (subtract) it from its current value. The rule is you cannot increase/decrease a parameter beyond its limit.

In the example Motif ES/DX SIMULATOR Plug-in Voice screenshot I posted Operator 6 is the Feedback Operator, it’s a Modulator, and Feedback is 7. Since +7 is the maximum value for the Feedback parameter, only applying negative value for the Feedback Offset will do anything. Operator 6 is a Modulator so I'd anticipate a mellowing of the sound.

But as you get to know FM, there are many factors that come into play. The length of time that Operator 6 is influencing the sound. Say Op6 is responsible for adding a bite to the timbre of the initial attack. It might come and go in a few milliseconds. Making a change to it would require you know to listen closely to the first few milliseconds of the sound. Conversely, if Op6 is responsible for a slowly increasing bright tone, decreasing its influence with the application of the controller will certainly be very obvious.

Do you have a specific DX FM Board Voice you want to experiment with?

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 7:05 am
thomas
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Topic starter
 

Phil,

At this stage of my learning, i first wanted to understand how the ES can communicate with the board. Specifically, if I choose "FC" in the NATIVE settings on the ES, do I understand correctly that means FC2 on my ES is mapped to send signals to the board to potentially affect an FM parameter if, AND ONLY IF, the settings for the chosen FM voice and available offsets allow for change? What if I choose EXP, does that translate to FC1 on my ES? MOD is still Modulation Wheel and PB is the Pitch Wheel?

In due time, after much more experimenting, I would like to come back to you with questions about editing specific FM board voices. Step one for me is first understanding the connections how the ES is able to talk to the board.

As always, thanks for your time and patience to walk me through this.

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 1:29 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

At this stage of my learning, i first wanted to understand how the ES can communicate with the board. Specifically, if I choose "FC" in the NATIVE settings on the ES, do I understand correctly that means FC2 on my ES is mapped to send signals to the board to potentially affect an FM parameter if, AND ONLY IF, the settings for the chosen FM voice and available offsets allow for change? What if I choose EXP, does that translate to FC1 on my ES? MOD is still Modulation Wheel and PB is the Pitch Wheel?

That’s exactly what that means. With a couple of extra details. EXP (Expression) will always do Volume, and PB will always be pitch bend... that’s even if you task them with something additional.

In due time, after much more experimenting, I would like to come back to you with questions about editing specific FM board voices. Step one for me is first understanding the connections how the ES is able to talk to the board.

If you begin to think about the PLG150-DX as taking the place of the AWM2 sample.

The Full Grand acoustic piano is created from AWM2 samples... quite a bit of programming went into recording and mapping samples into a playable Waveform... the Sample engine provides the Oscillator (Sound Source) for the Full Grand. The rest of the Motif ES parameters uses that set of samples as the Oscillator, the ES then applies all the rest of the settings... the Filter, the Controllers that determine how it will behave, the Effects etc., etc.

The PLG150-DX each Board Voice is quite a bit of programming goes into creating a playable Waveform... the DX engine provides the Oscillator (Sound Source) for whatever MOTIF ES “Plug-in Voice” you make, the ES applies the rest of the settings...

The difference is all of the parameters have parallels. The Plugin Board provides all the source data (Oscillator)

Quickly... the concept of synthesis came down to building blocks: Oscillator - Filter - Amplifier
Pitch - Timbre - Loudness
Think of a Trumpet: the Oscillator (the thing that vibrates) is the player’s lips
The Filter is the length, shape and material that the horn is made from
The Amplifier is the player’s lungs and cheeks.
Every musical instrument can be broken down in this way...

The Oscillator in your scenario is either an internal ES AWM2 Sample or it is a Board Voice from the PLG.

Do you have access to the Motif ES Editor?

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 3:22 pm
thomas
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Topic starter
 

Thanks Phil. I think I understand enough to get going. I just listened to nine hours of sound advice from the Dave Polich DVD so I get the basics of voice construction and effects. To answer your question, about the Motif ES Editor, I do have it and I also have the DX Simulator software. They are both installed and can run standalone in a Windows 10 operating system on my laptop. However, the drivers are not compatible to make a USB connection and connect with my Motif ES. Therefore, all my AWM2 and FM voice editing will be limited to what's possible from onboard the Motif ES. May I ask one more question, again about the menu of FM controllers.... is the CAT controller (channel after touch) actually the keyboard pressure which acts to control the assigned FM parameter?

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 6:40 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

However, the drivers are not compatible to make a USB connection and connect with my Motif ES. Therefore, all my AWM2 and FM voice editing will be limited to what's possible from onboard the Motif ES.

? What drivers? There is only one Driver (like in a car, only one driver). You need the Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver V3.1.4 for Windows.

Which drivers (sic) are you talking about?

May I ask one more question, again about the menu of FM controllers.... is the CAT controller (channel after touch) actually the keyboard pressure which acts to control the assigned FM parameter?

Yes CAT is Channel Aftertouch. If you assign EG BIAS to Aftertouch you can fade in a sound with Key pressure. This great for things like a piano or epiano that plays normally and string or pad sound you fade in with Aftertouch.

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 9:45 pm
thomas
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Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Ok I now understand all my NATIVE FM controller settings....

As far as getting my lap to communicate with my Motif ES....I don't know. I installed Yamaha-USB MIDI driver you listed above and, voila, I can now use Voice Editor, Thanks for that.. However, even with this new driver, I still can't make a connection between my ES and DX Simulator. DX Simulator MIDI setup screen still show no "NONE" MIDI devices.....I read somewhere that DX Simulator might need to run inside Studio Manager but I can't figure out how to get it inside. I tried dragging the icon, no luck. Couldn't find any way to import it. I found two versions of DX Simulator; 1.0.5 and 1.2.1. I tried them both. I couldn't get the older version to open. Version 1.2.1 will open but the setup screen shows all NONE for MIDI IN / OUT connections. I tried all combinations of CH, Part, Device and Board, still no MIDI devices. It just doesn't seem to transmit or even look for any MIDI in or out devices, not my Motif ES or anything else. I verified that my ES is connected with MIDI configured to USB. I have the latest Yamaha MIDI/USB driver installed. Can you confirm what is the latest version of DX Simulator? I went further to read about installing a SYS EX application to transport MIDI to /from DX Simulator to the board. I downloaded and tried MIDI OX, connected the Motif ES and everything seemed ready to transport, however, the DX Simulator Editor remained dead to any MIDI setup connections or transfers. Is it time to wave the white flag on continuing to try to connect DX Simulator it to the PLG board on my Motif ES?

 
Posted : 07/08/2019 11:14 pm
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