Στράτος wrote:

Hi! have the m08 for a few years now but only using it as stage piano. i decided to start using the arpegiator feature for live performance. My problem is that i cannot assign different arpeggios to diferrent parts on the performance mode. I can only assign the arpeggio to one part,ie drums,but cannot assign a bass arpeggio to a second part,the bass plays the same arpeggio of the drum part,and the manual does not help! What am i doing wrong here?

Nothing... we'll explain

You are most likely misunderstanding the purpose of the Arpeggiator in the MO8. This was 12 years ago and the MO was the first of the Motif-light series of synth workstations.

One of the compelling features of these music production synths was the re-invention of the Arpeggio. If I recall the MO had 1787 Arpeggio phrases which were presented as pre-recorded MIDI event phrases that could be used in recording to the built-in Sequencer. Instead of just the traditional up/down, down/up, and random phrases commonly thought about when an arpeggio was mentioned, these phrases could play musical parts like guitar picking, guitar strums, bass lines, horn riffs, keyboard comping, drum grooves, etc., etc., not just fixed note patterns, chord intelligent phrases (some could even consist of Controller events)...

The implementation of the Arpeggio in the MO back in 2005 had it so you could activate an Arpeggio phrase - any of the four Parts of the Performance could be under control of the ARP phrase while the others were under your *direct* control. If you think of the ARP as a second Keyboard player... you played some of the Parts directly by pressing the keys, the ARP played the others with its pre-recorded data. In general, a Part could follow you (direct) or the ARP (sort) but not both.

Recording was and is the ultimate goal of the Arpeggio engine. Yes it could seem like "live" performance was a use, but really the Arpeggiator engine differs from the Yamaha STYLE (accompaniment) engine in this area. Arps are individual phrases that can be controlled in realtime to produce a specific musical result that can be documented as MIDI events to a Sequence Recorder.

Performances that included an Arpeggio triggering one or more Parts would have to be recorded in two separate passes. One to record the direct keyboard play, the other to capture the Output of the Arpeggiator. As you can imagine to the receiving Sequencer Track.... MIDI events are MIDI events, it cannot tell where they come from.

I've found an article I prepared 12 years ago, that will help you make sense of the Arpeggios and their design concept as Phrases to be transferred to a recorder.

You will find that in 2005, you did not have a separate ARP per PART. There was the five ARP Phrases 1-5 on the SubFunction buttons.
You selected a Part or Parts to follow the selected Phrase... in other words, there was no way to simultaneously have the Drums doing one thing, while the Bass played a different phrase. Not at the same time any way...

Original concept was that you would play keys along with a Drum groove. First pass you would lay down the Drum groove Arpeggio to the sequencer, then go back and reassign Arpeggio phrases, to a bass sound, have it lay down the bass phrase, etc...

I'll attach the PDF article (zipped) below

thanks a lot for this thorough answer and the artivle attached! Seems like i was expecting too much from the instrument. If i understand correctly,the arpeggiator is meant to be used in the context of sequencer recordings,e non live performance. If i buy a new instrument such as the MOXF? Can i get 4 arpeggiators to play simultaneusly in live performance?

The MOXF features four independent Arpeggios. The MO was based on the Motif ES, by the time the MOX (2011) and the MOXF (current) came out, the synth engine evolved to have multiple (4) independent Arpeggios simultaneously. While this is better for what you described, it does not change one very important thing - which I will try to explain below...

...the focus of the ARPs in MOXF is still geared toward recording to the sequencer. That said, they can be used for "live" performing, but please understand the following:

The *focus* of the multiple Arps in the MOXF is still geared toward setting up a rhythm section (for example) and recording it to the Sequencer. Then setting up the next section of the song and recording that to the sequencer. Arps are single phrases assigned to an instrument Part.

The equivalent product to the MOXF (which is a 'Music Production Synthesizer') that focuses on being an Arranger Workstation would be the Yamaha PSR-S-series keyboards. The focus of an arranger like PSR-S970, for example, is "live" performance. It has Fill-in buttons that automatically change sections - but not only that, if you hit the Fill-in button on beat 4, it does a 1beat fill, hit it on beat 3, it does a two beat fill-in, etc., in other words, the Fill-in automatically adjusts to fill the space you give it; it has Intro buttons (3 type) that lead to a Main Section, it has Ending buttons (3 types) that automatically end the accompaniment.

The *focus* of the Arranger Workstation would be to quickly and efficiently put together real time music accompaniment... the Arranger has no Arpeggios, instead it has "Styles". A Style controls an 8 piece rhythm section. When you select "Bossa Nova" it recalls: a percussionist (9), a drum kit (10), a bass (11), a couple chordal instrument like guitar and /or keys (12 and13), etc... each of the Parts 9-16 is an instrument setup to accompany and follow your left hand chords.

Arpeggios are different from Styles. To do what I described above on the MOXF would not be as quick or immediate. You would be limited to 4 Parts, and you would manually have to find a Drum bossa nova groove, then a bass bossa nova arp, then a guitar bossa nova arp, and finally a keyboard bossa nova arp ... they are not grouped and organized in the MOXF. Why? You ask... because again, the focus is original music production.

Imagine taking a Style and storing all the individual musical phrases separately... this way the composer with the MOXF can pick and chose, mix and match genres...

The Arranger has all 16 Tracks that go into Record, simultaneously.
The Music Production Synth you record a track at a time...

So understand what I'm saying... if your goal is to play songs quickly and easily... the story I like to tell because it happened and it illustrates my point perfectly:

At the NAMM show one year we were introducing one of the Motifs (XS), an end user with a backpack walked into the Yamaha booth, I was showing the Motif XS, he shows me his backpack is full of charts... he says, "I play as a solo act and I know 10,000 Songs..., show me how to get them in the Motif"

I escorted to the other end of the Yamaha booth, and sat him down at the Tyros (thats the PSR-S-series big brother...) I said to him... "they are already in here!" I asked him what song he wanted to do... he mentioned a title, I showed him the "Music Finder" which has hundreds and hundreds of setups... a setup include the appropriate STYLE, Tempo, and instruments already setup for select the Song title, recall the setup and Go.

As fast as he could remember a title, there was a setup ready to play, or ready to tweak as he required/desired.
Could he do his songs on the MOXF /Motif series synths? why sure... but instead of seconds per song to setup, it would be a couple of hours each.

It is a matter of the FOCUS of the product. If you are into creating your own original data and want an ARP to give you a realistic guitar strumming part, or finger picking part ... for transfer to the sequencer as apart of your composition, then MOXF is a great choice. But if your thinking of an Arranger, the MOXF is not that. (Trust me, Yamaha knows the difference)

Yamaha we make both Arrangers and Music Production keyboards, understanding the difference is critical. They are different. One thing that keeps our support people up at night is worrying that someone for a MOXF buys an Arranger, or that some one for an Arranger buys a MOXF.

Hope that helps.

Thanks again for being so thorough and clear with your answers. I used to have varius arranger keyboards(always from yamaha,big fan). I own a Yamaha d-deck that I personally imported from Japan,because the Stagea series are non imported in Europe,so I already have an arranger keyboard. But due to practical reasons,cause it is difficult to carry around the d-deck with pedal board to varius gigs,I hoped to use some arranger features on the MO. I know i cannot expect much,but at least a drum 'n' bass i would be happy to have.
I will try and visit a local dealer for a hands-on look on the MOXF. Thanks again,you have been so very helpful!

You are very welcome... I see you "know" what to expect from an Arranger! Excellent. The MOXF is a Synth - so editing and customizing is the focus. MOXF is for those that enjoy doing the work yourself... you can build sounds, you create Arps, you can construct your own musical compositions using the PATTERN mode (cycling/looping musical sections) and the SONG mode (linear construction). These two modes can be used together to construct your composition.