There are, indeed, times when you want to trigger an Arp Phrase from an area of the keyboard unrelated to the actual sound of the instrument. For example, you might want to play two separate guitars with Arps, one from the upper right hand region and the other with the left hand. Yet you want both guitars to sound where they would/should normally sound.

User Arps you don’t get to assign. “_C” or an “_N”.

What you do get to control User Arps:
User Arps that are converted using the “Original Note” convert type will be chord intelligent. You get to choose the Note that determines where on the keyboard the controlling info should be triggered to get the Phrase to play properly (at its original pitches). When you want to change where on the Keyboard the Arp Phrase sounds this is handled (offset) by the assignment of the Arp Phrase, as follows…

Among the Part “Arpeggio” > “Common” parameters is the “Octave Shift” parameter. This allows you to offset your Arp control -/+10 octaves below/above the “Org Note” position. Use this “Octave Shift” parameter to offset the octave where the User Arp sounds. For example, if you’re going to be controlling a User Arp with your left hand, but you desire to offset the resulting sound by +2 Octaves to have instrument sound in the correct range.

Often if Arps are assigned to Drum, Bass, and Guitar for left hand control, and the right is playing lead… the “Octave Shift” setting is used to offset the Guitar Arp so it will sound in a range you’d expect to hear a guitar played.

Extra Credit:
“Octave Range” is a parameter that allows the Phrase to be repeated in the next octave. If you wish you phrase to play the original pitches on the first pass and then continue in the next higher octave— a +1 setting will raise the phrase an octave on the next play through; while -1 will lower the octave on the second time through… and so on.

Extra Credit Arpeggio Types behaviors...
From the Reference Manual....
Arpeggio types with “_N” at the end of the type name (example: HipHop1_N)
These Arpeggios are for using with the Normal Part, and Arpeggios with complex notes can be created even when triggered by one note

Arpeggio types with “_C” at the end of the type name (example: Rock1_C)
These Arpeggios are for using with the Normal Part, and correct Arpeggios can be created corresponding to the chord you play

The is no single way to use Arpeggios... you can use them to loop cycle (traditional) but they can be triggered to play one. Some are designed to recognize specific chord voicing, while others will play their stored phrase by triggering a single note.

Experiment:
Both of these Types add a form of chord intelligence – where they analyze the trigger note data and can adjust the arpeggio phrase results. The “_N” type plays a specific riff and follows the area (region) of the keyboard of the trigger notes. So you can control what region of the keyboard the arpeggio riff is sounding. The “_C” type plays a specific riff - always sounding in a specific range of notes. The “_N” type could be used anywhere up and down the keyboard and the phrase would follow with high and low pitches… while the “_C” type plays a riff ‘where it belongs’, even if the trigger notes are not specifically involved in the phrase.

Additionally, the “_N” type can play a specific riff using a single note as a trigger. To get the desired phrase sometimes means simply triggering the “root” note. Take as an example, a simple keyboard riff... as follows

Call up the Electric Piano “Natural Wr” (this is the classic Wurlitzer EP sound)

Assign the following Keyboard ARP TYPE:
MA_6/8 Pop _N — #577

To trigger the arpeggio’s stored riff you only need to enter a single note indicating the key in which you want the riff to sound. Play the “F” above middle “C”… and listen.
Now play an “F” anywhere else on the keyboard – notice the phrase adjusts to sound in that region.

Now assign the TYPE: MA_6/8 Pop _C — #570

This is the “_C” version of the same riff. This will help you understand the difference. Now you need more than one note to trigger the intended phrase – the “_C” Type can adjust the chord quality, as well. If, for example, you finger an F triad (F-A-C) – anywhere on the keyboard, the same intended phrase plays. If you play an F Minor triad the phrase adjusts the chord tense.

The “_C Type” and its fixed play zone allows for the phrase to be triggered from anywhere on the keyboard.

Summary: When you make your own User Arps, use the “Octave Shift” parameter to determine *where* the original pitch of the phrase will be heard (+/-10 octaves from the original recording).

Now assign the TYPE: MA_6/8 Pop _C — #570

This is the “_C” version of the same riff. This will help you understand the difference. Now you need more than one note to trigger the intended phrase – the “_C” Type can adjust the chord quality, as well. If, for example, you finger an F triad (F-A-C) – anywhere on the keyboard, the same intended phrase plays.

Yes, this is exactly what I was asking for, but for user arpeggios. I'm reading between the lines from your answer, but looks like this is not possible in user arpeggios, and only possible in preset ones?

Among the Part “Arpeggio” > “Common” parameters is the “Octave Shift” parameter. This allows you to offset your Arp control -/+10 octaves below/above the “Org Note” position. Use this “Octave Shift” parameter to offset the octave where the User Arp sounds.

Thanks for pointing out Octave Shift and Range. I can definitely play around with those. Currently I was using the part settings-> pitch->note shift to do the same thing, but I must try this also.

Yes, this is exactly what I was asking for, but for user arpeggios. I'm reading between the lines from your answer, but looks like this is not possible in user arpeggios, and only possible in preset ones?

My answer is how you set the playback Octave for User Arps within a Performance. Having you decide which octave you want the Phrase to play can now be stored with Performance

The Preset Arps from the factory, that have been designated with “_C” suffix, have been fixed to play in the appropriate range for the Phrase… this greatly enhances the user experience for these particular Phrases. The Phrases are typically reproducing a “soundalike” phrase, one that is used to sound a lot like a particular popular song, or sound a lot like a Phrase you’d hear in a specific genre, and are mostly designed to play on a particular instrument… and where, if played out-of-range, would not be particularly useful/beneficial.

Rather than playing wherever (octave) you place the Trigger notes, like any of the Arps not designated “_C”, , these “_C” Arps have been set so the octave that they play in is correct for the Song phrase being emulated.

When creating your own user Arps, if you use the Convert Type = Fixed… you can have the phrase playback in sequencer-type fashion… meaning, it plays exactly what you played regardless of the pitch/key of the note used to start it.

Is there something that you want to perform that you cannot?
I do not (I can’t) always see what it is someone is trying to accomplish, and can’t…
And what about the way it currently works is causing a problem, in what you’re doing?

How are you intending to use this Arp Phrase musically?
If you’d like it to playback exactly what you play use Convert Type = Fixed
If you’d like it to chord adjust, use Convert Type = Org Note…
When you do, you can set the Original Note - this will determine how it responds to chord input, and what region will trigger the Phrase as originally recorded, octave-wise.
The Octave Shift parameter, is most useful as a Part Arpeggio parameter, rather than one you fix with the Arp Phrase itself — this way you get to store it differently when to want to use it in a Performance where you a splitting the Key range. It’s a useful offset - it allows you to play any region on the keys, yet the phrase can sound as you desire (just shift the Octave).

So it’s a feature. It lets you use the same Arp Phrase, in either the upper or lower part of the Keyboard because you can Shift it and Store it per Performance.

hello i have this same doubt
How can I create my User Arp
So I can change chords and not change the octave of Arp?

I would like to create like this one from the factory, I want to have the freedom to play in any region and not get higher in one octave and lower in another.

I would like to know what the format and if it is possible to create the same Arp factory?

I already understand about the 3 formats
(Normal, Fixed, org Notes)
But when I go to test, Dm the bass of the Acustic Bass is as I would like. when I change and decrease 1 octave and play Dm that would be
(D F A) the sound of Acustic Bass gets lower, I don't want it

I need to know, if it is possible for my Arp to be the same as the factory example 4592 [Mg]MC_BrzSamba_C

Thank you very much for your attention!

hello i have this same doubt
How can I create my User Arp
So I can change chords and not change the octave of Arp?

From BadMister's last two answers it seems to me that you cannot do this for User Arps. The only possibility is to set the arp conversion type as "Fixed". But if you do that it will just play the chord or notes you had created the Arp with. It will not change chords/notes when you play a different chord.

There's an old post that alludes to the possibility of software to create ARPs that have more features available than otherwise achievable using the keyboard alone. This never materialized - but I imagine the general notion is still true. If you knew the secret - it's possible. But editing does not necessarily allow for all of the capabilities to be utilized.

There's an old post that alludes to the possibility of software to create ARPs that have more features available than otherwise achievable using the keyboard alone. This never materialized - but I imagine the general notion is still true. If you knew the secret - it's possible. But editing does not necessarily allow for all of the capabilities to be utilized.

This is the feature most needed, to complete the loop of functionality of and within the keyboard. A "step sequencer" that fully empowers creation of arpeggios with all their possible features, and with Motion integration, too.

It's baffling that it doesn't exist in the keyboards themselves, let alone that it's not available as iPad app or in a DAW like Cubase.

Yamaha's really dropped the ball on the potential of Patterns, Performances, Arps and Motion Sequences as a creative platform. Doesn't have to be a new Workstation, it could have been something much more creatively interesting with just the fuller empowerment of the Arp creation process with Motion sequences in conjunction with Patterns.

Why did they miss this obvious low-hanging-fruit opportunity to differentiate the Montage/MODX creativity and "Live"-ness from DAWs, Workstations and MPCs ???

So near, but so far.

Extra Credit:
see this post: Arpeggio Creation

Arpeggio Creation Plugins in Cubase
https://youtu.be/ld34YUgR9FE

Chord Pads
https://youtu.be/gzT6RCMwxNE

Note that if you could edit the elements you could setup smaller ranges of elements that repeat a note range. So as you run up the octave across the keyboard - the notes would not continually be higher pitched but would rather all stay within the same octave. Then it wouldn't matter where you played the ARP - all of the notes themselves would be restricted with notes being repeated (same pitch, unison) at each octave. If you cannot edit the key mapping - then you could either generate your own custom waveforms with the key mapping already representing this - or you could "burn" Parts in order to place perhaps 2 octaves at a time note shifted splits such that every note is within 2 octaves. That would take 4 Parts to realize 8 octaves (or only 3 Parts to cover 6 octaves = 72keys). It's a brute-force way of doing this - changing the underlining notes instead of changing the ARP.

There are options with this as a general idea. Burn Parts, create your own custom Waveforms, or even use Sample Robot (at cost for MODX) to sample MODX and reconfigure the layout of the keybank using Samplerobot as an assist tool.

You can't really gracefully do this at the element level by copying an element and changing the pitch of the element to adjust a new keyboard range of the same waveform to a different octave. I say this because at the element level the pitch adjustment is stretching the sample which degrades the sound vs. the Part-level "note shift" which does not stretch (chipmunk as one artifact).

Maybe a good ideascale would be the ability to use preset waveforms in a more flexible manner where a portion of an existing waveform could be assigned an alternative key mapping. This way one could key-map built-in samples by element "note shift" by means of changing the keys existing samples map to. So maybe I tell the flute sample (an element) to take C7-C8 and map that to keys C1-C2. That's over 70 semitones away which isn't possible at the moment without stretching or other tricks. And also would allow for this "folding" suggestion if I used the next element to assign C3-4 to the same C7-C8 range of the original flute waveform and so on. Progressive modifications by key would need to be normalized when you do this - but I think it still gets a certain amount of jobs done.

It also occurred to me to record a voice with repeating octaves.
But this is all self-deception. Now I understand that no one knows the answer.
There is some kind of software that Yamaha keeps for itself.

And I have to play on their templates limiting my creativity.

Even though it seems like a dubious way, it is very real in practic.
I quickly scattered multisamples into octave zones and got this.
Maybe this is how it is done built-in arps _C.

This method is good in the sense that you can make a two-octave limited range, etc.