How can I (if possible), Save my ideal Cutoff, which I have arrived at through the use of Control Assigns?

As far as I know that isn't possible. I'm not aware of any functionality to back-propogate offsets/settings nor of any functionality to display the final 'computed' setting of any particular parameter.

If I understand you correctly the ideal 'solution' would be:

1. start with a value of 106
2. do a bunch of fiddling around
3. be able to know what this final value really is - e.g. a Super Knob value of 47 gives you a value of 83 instead of the 106 you started with
4. change the default value to 83
5. remove the assignments that allowed you to fiddle around.

I don't think that can be done.

I'd be interested to know if you are aware of any other instrument that is able to do that sort of thing.

That is the sort of thing I was hoping the 'Smart Morph' functionality could do when it was first introduced. It does allow you to combine multiple parts into one. Then you can save that final part as a new base part.

Unfortunately the morph stuff doesn't really give the user much control over the parameters that are used during the morph analysis.

The Hydra Drone preset is a Super Morph example comes as close to what you are asking about that I have seen.

1. Load Hydra Drone - a super morph performance
2. Edit part 1 Common
3. Select op1
Moving the superknob changes the algorithm display, Attack, Decay, Course, Fine, Ratio and Detune values
4. Select the 'level' tab for op 1
Moving the superknob changes almost EVERY parameter on the screen including Curve Lo and Curve Hi

I realize that isn't exactly what you are asking about but the example at least shows the Super Knob doing the 'fiddling around' of a lot of parameters in real-time.

Then if you get a set of parameters you like you could manually copy the operator or those parameter values to another operator. But that isn't really applying any offsets from parameters in another part of the hierarchy.

Yeah nah.

I'm talking about saving/storing the positions of Assign Controls/Knobs, Quick Edits or whatever other controls I may have used to arrive at a particular sound.

In other words.... all Offsets are Stored.

In other words.... all Offsets are Stored.

To be sure there are some quick edits that aren't stored. But there are also some that are and cutoff is one of them.

I'm talking about saving/storing the positions of Assign Controls/Knobs, Quick Edits or whatever other controls I may have used to arrive at a particular sound.

Based on the tests I just ran those values are saved.

1. new INIT AWM2 perf
2. edited part 1
3. assigned assigned knob 1 to Cutoff
4. assigned assigned knob 2 to default InsA Param 1
5. assigned super knob to part 1 knob 1
6. edited element 1 filter cutoff to 106
7. set super knob to 120
8. set quick edit cutoff to 20
9. selected part 1
10. set part 1 knob 1 to 90 (it was 120 because of the super knob setting
11. set part 1 knob 2 to 90 (it was 120 also)
12. saved the performance
13. loaded different performance
14. reloaded the test performance
15. all values were what I set above: part 1 knob 1 was 90, knob 2 was 90, filter cutoff was 106, super knob was 120, quick edit cutoff was still 20

As soon as I moved the superknob the part knob values changed because of the connection.

The filter cutoff shown is still 106 but the EFFECTIVE filter cutoff was some unknown value. My first reply assumed you wanted to know what that 'effective' value was so you could store it as the starting value on the filter display.

But you said that isn't what you were talking about.

So my tests show those knob values are stored and reloaded with the performance. The Data List doc, and dumps also show that all of the knob values are stored as well.

The only thing not displayed or stored are the EFFECIIVE values that result from actually applying the various offsets. I'm guessing I'm wrong but it still seems to me that you want to be able to:

1. select a parameter
2. ask the Modx: what is the EFFECTIVE value of that parameter after applying all of the offsets
3. and then, optionally, overwrite/store the effective value as the new base value

Use a scene to store the superknob position set at the golden value then [STORE] your Performance with that scene activated.

This is a no AI zone ....

Hey All,

excuse my rant about some people using ChatGPT (not you Jason, and not you Yamaha staff, BM etc). I'm fairly old school. If I see someone asked a question and I don't know the answer, I stay out of the conversation. If I do know the answer, I will respond with a to-the-point solution, written by me straight from my brain.

I think we all remember "Bill" being a particularly aggregious user of ChatGPT. He clearly knew no answers, but felt obliged to pollute every single thread with his ChatGPT ponderances. His actions took it to the point where "simple answers" became practically impossible to find with a basic Forum search. That's because they generated (found) 100's of pages of ChatGPT generated content, which were in turn only "lists of search results". Very taxing.

ChatGPT has hallmarks. It leaves a smoke trail. There are some using it, and those people know who they are. So politely, I would request, if they don't personally know the answer, please stay out of the thread.

I tried to keep my original query simple by providing a very simple example scenario.

The real scenario, a Complex Factory MultiPart Performance.

Through random manipulation of multiple Assign Knobs, Quick Edit Knobs and the SuperKnob, a User arrives at a Sound he would very much like to Save/Store to reuse later.

The "manipulated" Sound is very different to the original Preset Sound.

The User finds that when he Stores the Preset, all the changes he made with Control Assigns (Assign Knobs, Quick Edit Knobs, SuperKnob) are NOT SAVED and the sound is lost... in most cases.

But in some cases... they are Saved.

If Control Assign "Positions" were not saved all of the time, the simple solution is... don't use Control Assigns to Edit Patches.

But... because sometimes they are saved. The visible logic breaks down.

So the question is, why are Control Assign (e.g. Assign Knob etc) positions sometimes saved, and sometimes not saved?

There is some mechanism "making a difference". I would like to know Where is it? and What is It?

Thanks in anticipation.

So the question is, why are Control Assign (e.g. Assign Knob etc) positions sometimes saved, and sometimes not saved?

There is some mechanism "making a difference". I would like to know Where is it? and What is It?

Ok - that makes it a lot clearer for me.

The first thing I would try to do is identify a simple case where a knob position is NOT saved.

I repeated the test I described earlier but with one difference:

1. do the setup and changes
2. bulk dump the current edit buffer using SysEx: F0 43 20 7F 1C 07 0E 25 00 F7
3. move to a different performance
4. use SysEx to execute ALL of the commands in the export from step 2

The result was that the parameters had the same values I had set for them.

I'll do it again and power the Modx off after the export and back on and then do the import and update below.

---------
update - same result as before - knob values were restored

I'll need to find a test where the values aren't saved.

Just did a couple of dumps and imports that DID show issues.

On three tests executing the dump SysEx shown before actually reset the Super Knob position on the instrument back to 0.

And the import did NOT restore it - the value in the dump was a zero.

So it appears that the Super Knob value was reset to 0 before the actual dump occured thus storing a value of 0 in the dump. Then that 0 value was restored.

So there is definitely something going on.

The failed tests were done WITHOUT saving the changed values to the performance itself on the instrument and WITHOUT moving the cursor OFF the super knob value on the display.

In other words to change the super knob value:

1. I used my finger to SELECT the Super Knob edit box on the display
2. Used the dial to change the value
3. Then did the dump without moving away from the edit box to another field or to another screen.

Makes me wonder if there is an issue where the 'EDIT' value of a parameter isn't stored into the actual parameter variable until you move away from the field.

That would explain why sometimes a changed value doesn't get restored - it was never saved to begin with.

Just to explain that last part for anyone not familiar with an editing technique often used in software.

When editing a field on a display (name, address, anything) you need to be able to 'UNDO' the action if the user changes their mind. So the REAL value is NOT the one edited.

The real value is copied into an edit buffer which the user can then change all they want. An 'UNDO' simply ignores the change to the edit buffer since the real value was never changed.

If the user moves to another field then the edit buffer value replaces the actual value.

So if that replacement never happens the new value won't be saved in an export or when you save the performance to a file. That could explain the results I got above for the Super Knob value not being saved in some cases.

Different screens could have different ways of providing edit buffers depending on whether they need to support UNDO on more than one field at a time.

That COULD BE the sort of thing happening. If so it would be fairly hard to identify all of the cases if you have to test one field at a time.

@Andrew... thanks for looking in deep.

I'm not assuming anything is bugged. I'm assuming there is some variable or interaction I'm not aware of, or plainly, I might just be using it wrong. No shame in that.

I get the feeling it may be something to do with if you attempt "Sound Design" using a mix of any Control Assign "Macros" you've set up, AND the Pre-Assigned "Quick Edits" that are already in place.

I can't quite get my head around it.

A long while back I had noticed that when I reloaded a User Preset I had "Customised" from a Factory Preset by only adjusting Assign Knobs, SuperKnob or Quick Edits... the Sound was significantly different than the Sound coming through the Speakers when I last Stored it.

I didn't make a big deal about it, and made a mental note that in future I would only Design Sounds by Editing at Source i.e. changing parameter values in the EDIT menus (Cutoff, Resonance, Envelopes, Velocity, Effects etc).

This was no great burden because I usually knew what I was changing with a Sound, and why I was changing it.

But... of late, I wanted to avail myself of "Macro Controls" on the MODX. This is probably born of using the Hydrasynth, where I can bring all my "frequent use" parameters to Top Panel Controls (in the Control Panel). For example:- There are 8 Control Knobs... one of the Macro's I set up had Filter A, D, S & R on the top row, and Amp A, D, S & R on the bottom row.

On the Hydrasynth, it's a trivial workflow shortcut... I can cut out the step of (remembering to) select Filter or Amp Envelope first. However, on the Hydrasynth, this clearly a design intent and encouraged in the Manuals. You are even given options on how Macro Control settings are Stored (if at all... in which case they always reset to Zero).

I've been trying to set up a basic "Analogue Subtractive Synth" model on the MODX, with some rudimentary Control brought out to the Top Panel.

So, with a mix of Assign Knobs (Part and Common) and also factory pre-assigned Quick Edit Knobs (also those in Quick Edit menu) I have been trying to "design a user interface" that made sense to me... so I could make Quick Changes, without diving into the Edit Menus (as I normally do).

It's a somewhat frustrating "limited success". Sometimes when I Store a Sound... the Sound is "Saved". Other times, the Sound is NOT saved, and I cannot figure out why, or retrace my steps to figure out what I did differently.

It's the "Not Saved" occurrences that prevent me from adopting "Macro Control". By "Not Saved" I mean the reloaded sound is different to that when I stored it. Without writing all current offsets/knob positions down on paper, I can't tell which values have changed or not been stored.

Similarly... this is why I stopped using the programmed "Control Assigns" on Factory Presets for Sound Design... years ago. I couldn't figure it out back then either.

Control Assigns are wonderful for creating movement, in real time, in a live Performance, but I'm thinking they were never intended as Sound Editing Tools.

In my Analog Subtractive Synth "Model" I've mainly been trying to bring out Amp A,D, S & R, Filter A,D, S & R plus Envelope Amount (FEG Depth).

I have my "Oscillator Waveforms" preloaded in Elements, across three Parts, and use Sliders to activate and/or mix the Oscillators.

This is irrelevant to the subject, but at least tells you "why" it's suddenly become an issue for me.

If someone just said "Hey mate, you can't do that. It's not Design Intent and it is not Supported" I'd be happy and save myself the time for further investigation.

I'm not a Beta Tester 😉

As an update ... what I said earlier about scenes isn't true. I had been operating previously with the false sense that scenes were a way to override the typical default values because a scene button (if there's an active scene) that you had selected when you [STORE] a Performance will be lit brightly which, to me, indicated the scene was applied. This isn't the case. Super Knob is stored wherever the position was when [STORE]'ing the Performance. At least with a simple Performance like Init Normal (AWM2) or Init Normal (FM-X). If I alter the superknob position in scene 1 and save with scene 1 selected - then scene 1's superknob position won't be applied when I recall the Performance if Superknob was at a different position when I [STORE].

There seems to be very little to make this go off center. Scenes don't impact the last position of Superknob as discussed above. Super Knob auto doesn't do this if MS Master is turned off.

Further testing shows that the Super Knob value is reset to ZERO if you do a SysEx dump of the edit buffer using F0 43 20 7F 1C 07 0E 25 00 F7

I'm reporting that as a bug - a mere export should NOT be changing values.

Which begs the question - what else might be getting changed?

Scenes with cutoff/resonance offsets will offset when a Performance is recalled if the default scene button that is selected (when [STORE]ing the Performance) has the mixing memory turned on and offsets to cutoff/resonance. So ... some of a scene will apply an offset as programmed in the scene. Just not Superknob and maybe other things.

The quick edit parameters (3 rows of dials for Common) will remain as they were set when the Performance is [STORE]'d.

Thanks for your help.

I was thinking (more hoping) there was some parameter I'd missed, maybe in Utility or the Control Assign Menu's, that governed how Performances were saved. Therefore I was assuming it would be a short quick and easy answer.

I'm pretty sure now, that there's something I'm not understanding or an interaction I'm missing with my "prototypes". I will eventually figure it out, but I don't have the free-time bandwidth at the moment.

Please consider this case "Solved".

Thanks for your support.