@Andrew....

just jump through the training hoops dude.

I had to.

Year 2 on MODX I still had no clue what was going on with Filters and Envelopes.

6 months with the Hydrasynth, which is basically a VA Synth (like Vital) at it's core, and things started falling into place.

The Hydra puts it all on a Buffet Plate for you. It's still a bit daunting at first, but you can change stuff in real time without pre-programming or Menu Diving.

FWIW... there's no such thing as "Fliter Depth" that can be modulated, by any synth. I sense you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Filters there.

The Hydra has a stack of real-life Filter models, and some of them are known to cut/attenuate below the Cutoff when Resonance is raised (e.g. MiniMoog, 24dB, 4-Pole Ladder LPF). But there is no "Filter Depth" parameter, it's just the modelled "nature" of the real world Analogue Filters.

I'm not here to sell Hydrasynths. However, Hydras have a lot faster learning curve for Subtractive Synthesis than the MODX.

That said, armed with my new-found knowledge, I am pleased to say the MODX... does do it. It just takes longer to pump out the sound you're after (You have to program Amp and Filter Envelopes for every Element/Oscillator... with no copy/paste function).

[quotePost id=119413]@Andrew....

I'm not here to sell Hydrasynths. However, Hydras have a lot faster learning curve for Subtractive Synthesis than the MODX.

[/quotePost]

You forgetting I'm the one that sold you on the Hydrasynth (combined with the special you got - well done!) because of this very aspect of its design... and I raved about the shortcut buttons and how they'd change your life... how would I know that?

So if you have a Hydrasynth where is the disconnect happening with understanding Filters and Filter Cutoff Envelopes?

BTW... I bought the Hydrasynth after sitting in a shop for 4 hours trying the Arturia Polybrute, the UDO Super 6, the Sequential Rev2 and the Novation Summit... I could have bought any of them. I walked out the shop with a Hydrasynth Deluxe because it was cheaper than any of the above, cheaper than a MODX7 and didn't sound "bad at all" compared to any I had tried. Bargain. End Of Financial Year Open Box Sale.

I don't recall you being there. 😉

Consider the most basic filter shape, no resonance.... do your ears hear something like this?

Can you at least see how the cutoff is inadvertently, as I call it, being moved left, as a factor of the nature of the FEG's activity upon "depth" or whatever you'd like to call this crimping of the effect of the filter?

As I've said in other places, I think the values are backwards for depth, but numbers being backwards in the Montage/MODX is somewhat of an inconsistent consistency.

[quotePost id=119415]So if you have a Hydrasynth where is the disconnect happening with understanding Filters and Filter Cutoff Envelopes?

BTW... I bought the Hydrasynth after sitting in a shop for 4 hours trying the Arturia Polybrute, the UDO Super 6, the Sequential Rev2 and the Novation Summit... I could have bought any of them. I walked out the shop with a Hydrasynth Deluxe because it was cheaper than any of the above, cheaper than a MODX7 and didn't sound "bad at all" compared to any I had tried. Bargain. End Of Financial Year Open Box Sale.

I don't recall you being there. 😉

[/quotePost]

I think you've chosen wisely, grasshopper.

[quotePost id=119415]So if you have a Hydrasynth where is the disconnect happening with understanding Filters and Filter Cutoff Envelopes?
[/quotePost]

Perhaps the disconnect is in you thinking that Yamaha would follow any other conventions of any other aspects of the synth world. There's enormous amounts of evidence showing that blends of hubris, obstinance, determination and dedication combined with a blind belief in the Yamaha way, the need for cost cutting and their own chipset designs have seen them do a vast number of things in ways that aren't quite the same as others, very different, or even the complete opposite, on occasions.

IOW, what you understand about how something occurs in other synths (sometimes even things that happen in ALL other synths) is not necessarily an accurate indicator of how they're done in a Yamaha synth.

Now factor in that AWM2 is OLD!

From way back in the days when not only did Yamaha think they were king of the heap, but so did the whole of Japan. So you can turn up the contributions of hubris and obstinance to 11. And then some.

btw, I've lived in Japan, for extended periods of time across multiple decades. Even they're ok with this kind of characterisation of their behaviour during the 80's and early 90's. Mostly 😉

https://youtube.com/shorts/4qEtrX7aGQw?feature=share

There she blows!!!

[quotePost id=119428]

So you can turn up the contributions of hubris and obstinance to 11. And then some.

I wholeheartedly support your claim of expertise when it comes to 'hubris and obstinance'. And I am willing to support you against anyone's attempts to claim your throne.

Long live the King![/quotePost]

What an honour. With the utmost humility and deference, I accept your recognition and defensive services, Bill of Proleville.