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Fresh MODX user: issues with connections to VST and external synths in Studio One

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Cheers!

Got the MODX6; been playing night and day but for the love of the oscillators, I can't figure out things about certain workflows.

If I use it standalone, all is fine. The issues start when using a DAW and when using VST or external synths.

Scenario 1: I connect the MODX via USB; the audio out is going in my focusrite scarlet 18i8, to which I have connected 2 more synths (a Ju-06 and a Minilogue XD module). I use Studio one as DAW. Basically if I open Studio one and create 2 devices (one keyboard and one instrument) for the MODX; I can see the midi signal being recorded, when I play the keybed, but no midi signal is getting into Studio one, when I twist knobs or push any button. They all control the MODX function exactly like if I was just playing it on its own. And yes, I went in the settings and changed the mode into "midi rec on DAW" and "Audio Rec on DAW" but nothing changed. These modes seems to make no difference when I play in Studio one. Also if I go back to the quick settings, the quick setup selection is back to "Standalone"; almost like the MODX is trolling me. TL:DR: can't use the modx controls since they don't send CC messages to studio one.

Scenario 2: as above, I am in Studio one, USB connected, audio to focusrite; I can create a new track and access my JU06 or minilogue XD as external instruments; but when I play on the MODX I still hear the MODX audio triggered when I am on a track that is set for either the Ju06 or the minilogue XD. I need to turn down the volume of whatever part is selected; and this is annoyng; not sure if I am doing something wrong or if this is what it is.

From what I understand, the best way to operate multiple instruments is to use midi, and create zones so each part is fundamentally a different instrument and I can switch between them via touchscreen, although why it does not work the same way via USB? I thought USB was equivalent to midi (and use just one cable since it is bi-directional).
Also there is no audio out from USB, unless I use the MODX as audio interface, which won't work because I use my scarlet 18i8 for that.

Can anyone clarify for me how to set things up in Studio one, to

- use the controls on the modx in studio one VST, controls or other synths (so the modx is a master keyboard)
- set up the modx so I can hear only the instrument in the selected track, instead of the audio from the modx even if I play tracks which has as instrument one of my external synths

Thanks in advance!

 
Posted : 24/04/2020 6:03 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Hi fulvio,
Welcome to YamahaSynth. We can certainly help you with getting your MODX working. Sorry, but we cannot help you with settings within Studio One (because we don’t know that particular DAW) but since most work similarly, you can use its documentation to help you with understanding what you need to do with it. Or you can contact them for how to proceed.

First, make sure you download and install the “Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver“ for your computer type and operating system. Even though you are not going to be using the MODX’s 10-bus audio outputs, you’ll need it to properly take advantage of the MODX’s multiple port MIDI Output capability.
The driver handles both MIDI and Audio communication for the MODX...And these can be used separately. Because you are connecting the MODX to your Focusrite, you will be limited to just the Left/Right analog audio outputs. But you’ll still want to install the driver to take advantage of MODX’s multiple port MIDI communication via USB. Are using a Mac or Windows?

We are going to assume you are going to be playing the keys of the MODX for most things...in order to intelligently use the MODX via MIDI, get the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver.

It will show up in your DAW (Studio One) showing 3 MODX MIDI ports. A Port is the equivalent of a MIDI In plus a MIDI Out.
MODX MIDI Port 1 is for normal music data (Note-Ons, Controllers, Tempo, etc.) communication with the MODX itself
MODX MIDI Port 2 is reserved for future expansion. Not currently used.
MODX MIDI Port 3 allows you, when setup so that MIDI I/O = USB, to use the 5-pin MIDI jacks on the back panel as a MIDI Interface for an external MIDI Device. Data travels thru the MODX to/from the computer as routed from your DAW. Your DAW MIDI Track will re-route MIDI signal. Say you want to play one if your synth modules using the MODX keys (you would set Local Control Off, set a MIDI Track to receive MODX Port 1, and set the tracks MIDI Out to Port 3. Now playing the MODX keys will trigger the device connected to the 5-pin MIDI Out).

Basically if I open Studio one and create 2 devices (one keyboard and one instrument) for the MODX;

Sorry, I don’t know what that means... please, if you are not sure consult you Studio One documentation. If you do know can you tell us... what is a “keyboard” in Studio One speak? What is an “instrument” in Studio One speak?

I can see the midi signal being recorded, when I play the keybed, but no midi signal is getting into Studio one, when I twist knobs or push any button.

The physical Knobs and buttons can generate MIDI data when engaged and they send data in the same Port as the MODX keys— it will depend on what you have them doing at the time. They will be sending Controller data when you physically move them. So this data, like the key presses, will be Output on MIDI Port 1. At times Knobs and buttons can be sending Control Change (CC) messages, and at other times they can be sending Parameter Change (Sysex) messages.

Make sure that your DAW (Studio One) is set to Record and pass Thru “System Exclusive“ messages... This maybe a setting you need to activate in your DAW... again consult your Studio One documentation to make sure Sysex data can be documented (recorded and passed back thru the MIDI Tracks)... for example, when Local Control is Off, these messages must be routed through an active MIDI track in your DAW back to the MODX to ‘complete the routing circuit.

They all control the MODX function exactly like if I was just playing it on its own. And yes, I went in the settings and changed the mode into "midi rec on DAW" and "Audio Rec on DAW" but nothing changed.

When you select the MODX Quick Setup templates, you can see from the MIDI Signal Flow and Audio Signal Flow diagrams that they definitely change things, the fact that they are making no difference in what you are experiencing is what we are attempting to fix here.

Each has a purpose and makes a dozen or more critical settings to facilitate recording with a computer based DAW.
First, you do not get to use the factory template “Audio Rec on DAW” — Because you are not using the MODX’s 10-bus audio interface. You are connected to the Focusrite using just the analog L/R Outputs. This is up to you.

“MIDI Rec on DAW“ makes the MODX ready to record to your DAW. It switches several parameter settings, for example, it turns LOCAL CONTROL = Off. This disconnects the MODX Keyboard from the MODX Tone Generator. When this is the case, you will get no sound by playing the MODX keys, unless you complete the routing through an active MIDI Track in your DAW. (You can use this instead of turning down the volume of the MODX... LOCAL CONTROL is a term to take literally - “local” refers to the MODX keys being the very local controller for the MODX synth tone generator... disconnecting it allows you to “remotely” control your other modules without the MODX sounding. A MIDI fundamental - it is not trolling you! It’s a feature!

Create a MIDI Track set to Receive MIDI In from “Yamaha MODX Port 1”, and set that MIDI Track to Transmit Out to the device you wish to play (sound). If you set the MIDI Out of the Track to “Yamaha MODX Port 1” — this will complete the circuit and cause the MODX Tone Generator to sound.

“MIDI Rec on DAW“ also sets the MIDI SYNC to MIDI. This allows all tempo driven items in the MODX to synchronize with Tempo as set in your DAW. The sequencer, the 8 Arpeggiators, the Tempo driven Effects, the Tempo driven LFOs, etc. will follow the clock set in your DAW. Again, make sure Studio One is sending standard MIDI Clock to the MODX on Port 1.

Additionally, this Quick Setup makes the following settings in the MODX to setup for MIDI Recording:
Factory Defaults for QUICK SETUP #1: MIDI RECORD ON DAW

MIDI I/O = USB
LOCAL CONTROL = Off
ARP MIDI OUT = Off
MIDI SYNC = MIDI
CLOCK OUT = On
REC/TRANS SEQ CONTROL = On/On
CONTROLLER RESET = Reset
GLOBAL ASSIGN (FootSwitch/SuperKnob CC/SCENE CC) = Arp Sw, 95, 92

You would have to set these each manually, but tapping “MIDI Rec on DAW” instantly makes these changes. BOOM! all with one touch.

This setup is customizable — if you find you like to work differently you can reprogram any of these settings and STORE them to your MODX system settings.

Extra Credit:
Please see this article:
Mastering MODX MIDI Settings Explained

Can anyone clarify for me how to set things up in Studio one, to

- use the controls on the modx in studio one VST, controls or other synths (so the modx is a master keyboard)
- set up the modx so I can hear only the instrument in the selected track, instead of the audio from the modx even if I play tracks which has as instrument one of my external synths

Anytime you want to intelligently control external modules or plug-in synths you want to use the MODX ZONE MASTER function. The MODX can intelligently transmit and control 8 Zones, simultaneously. You can set a Zone internally, or externally.. and on rare occasion to do both from the same Zone. This means if you are playing 5 of the Zone Part slots internally, you can additionally control 3 Zone Part slots externally.

We already went over LOCAL CONTROL OFF as the way to disconnect the MODX keys from the MODX tone engine, additionally when working with VSTi (plug-in) synths you can set the “Int Sw“ (Internal Switch) to Off.

For more on the Zone Master function please see this article: although written for the MONTAGE it applies in full to the MODX
Zone Master FAQ

 
Posted : 24/04/2020 10:27 am
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Thank you so much Badmister!

I use mostly Windows 10, but sometimes I use OSX too with Logic.

Got the Yamaha drivers set; I tried to use the USB connection directly but in Studio one I was able to take advantage of the 10 USB channels only if I would set the MODX as main audio interface, and that would not work for me since I have other synths connected to the Focusrite.

It will show up in your DAW (Studio One) showing 3 MODX MIDI ports. A Port is the equivalent of a MIDI In plus a MIDI Out.

I see, so I should worry only about MODX1 then; since the second port is not used as now, and the third seems to be routing to midi as if it was a midi thru port if I understand correctly; which to me is redundant since I can control already the other synths setting the MODX in MIDI out mode instead of USB.

what is a “keyboard” in Studio One speak? What is an “instrument” in Studio One speak?

Basically Studio One ask you to create devices: you can create a keyboard; which takes notes on/off and few other parameters; so it is ideal if you have a plain midi keyboard controller. The instrument is a device (or VST, never tried with VST, just with hardware to be honest), where you SEND data to; so fundamentally you use it to play sounds. In my case; I have to create 1 keyboard "entity" to use the MODX keybed (so the input of all channels on the MODX will be read); and an instrument "entity", which is used to send to the modx the midi channel data, so it can be played. It is a weird thing to do; since you would just expect to create a channel and assign an output and input for that channel, but after a while you get used to that and it make sense

They will be sending Controller data when you physically move them. So this data, like the key presses, will be Output on MIDI Port 1

I see, so the CC data or sysex is sent based on the port selected; I noticed that creating a keyboard "entity" in studio one does not catch the CC messages from knobs and other controls; for that I had to create a surface "entity"; which is the equivalent of a mixer board/Mackie controller; basically just CC controls, no audio in or out. In that way I was able to get the CC messages, but only for the assignable knobs and superknob; the volume slider always share the same midi CC and the buttons assign1 and 2 do not even send a CC from what I can tell

First, you do not get to use the factory template “Audio Rec on DAW” — Because you are not using the MODX’s 10-bus audio interface. You are connected to the Focusrite using just the analog L/R Outputs. This is up to you.

I see; so those settings are only making sense when I use the modx as audio interface; not when I use it via USB or Midi. I love the local control off! It is better than turn off the audio indeed; although I did't find an easy way to turn it on or off via a control; you need to go in the menu; which is tedious at times. I wish there was a shift combination with buttons to enable features like local contro or midi/usb output. Even tapping on their icons on the top of the touchscreen would be great to cycle the state!

Thanks again for your guidance! I will hop on now and try out new things 😛

 
Posted : 03/05/2020 5:03 am
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

The owner's manual shows the [SHIFT] shortcuts
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/5/1162395/modx6_modx7_modx8_en_om_a0.pdf

page 62.

[SHIFT] + [UTILITY] Calls up the Quick Setup display

This brings you straight to the quick setup. If there's already a template that does what you want - that's two steps to change (I know, not one - but I'm not sure how many steps you're going through now - so may be better). If there's not one, you can add a user quick template that just turns off local control. The "Standalone" template would turn local control back on.

If you want more shortcuts - consider making suggestions to ideascale. More info: https://yamahasynth.com/yamaha-synth-rss/ideascale

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 03/05/2020 4:19 pm
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Thanks Jason,
I was thinking more of a tap to cycle kinda of action; if I need to change the option by just tapping on screen to cycle to the next preset, it would save me time.

The shortcut with shift is nice but it is the same as touching the keyboard icon on the top of the touch screen 🙂

 
Posted : 06/05/2020 6:33 am
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

Yeah - it wasn't clear exactly what you were coming from (all the steps you were going through before). There's not a one-button solution and there's not a toggle (one control that cycles through states). That's why the door is left open for adding a suggestion on ideascale.

I guess if you're open to buying external gear - then there should be a toggle button you can program so pressing it once will send one MIDI message (including Sysex) and pressing it again will send a different Sysex message. There's fairly sophisticated MIDI swiss-army-knife devices out there with buttons and knobs and so a fairly expensive programmable one of these should be able to do what you want externally. It's a research project to find the right gadget. The Soleman MIDI Foot Controller has 4 (foot) switches that can be on/off while in "panel" mode. And the on state of the switch can send one macro and the off state can send a different macro. A macro can be a sysex message - so that's one way. The rub here is that the pedal doesn't know what state the keyboard is currently in (like when you turn it on) - but syncing the two up can be done by tapping the pedal every time you turn the keyboard on.

But without throwing money at it - you're going to need a firmware change to get the sort of functionality you're asking for onboard. MODX doesn't exactly have a surplus of buttons - so this would (probably) need to be a top-line icon. That space is competing for all kinds of other things others would want to always display on the top line. Or maybe local control (and maybe other "system" settings) should be allowed to toggle in scene buttons. That's another crowded space for ideas.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 06/05/2020 1:39 pm
 PJ
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

This caught my eye since I use Studio One on Windows 7 - it's different but not a bad DAW.

Just remember for future reference, so you don't have to say "We don't know Studio One"
the track assignments are separated into MIDI in for notes, MIDI in for CC, and MIDI out.
The way the plug-ins appear within Studio One is pretty cool - you don't have to open a
different program to access the settings for compliant VST objects.

There are a couple errors in the links:

Extra Credit:
Please see this article:
Mastering MODX MIDI Settings Explained

that link has an extra MODX in it, I figured it out. But this one I didn't figure out:

For more on the Zone Master function please see this article: although written for the MONTAGE it applies in full to the MODX
Zone Master FAQ

Where was that link supposed to point?

thanks - PJ

 
Posted : 26/05/2020 9:22 pm
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

When I click on "Zone Master FAQ" in BM's original quote (not a quoted version) - it brings me to:

https://yamahasynth.com/montage-category/mastering-montage-zone-master-faq

Notice that the font for links is slightly different than regular text. A long time ago the message board underlined links automatically which made them easier to see.

Now - you can still underline them if you want.

https://yamahasynth.com/montage-category/mastering-montage-zone-master-faq

... it takes work.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 27/05/2020 5:43 pm
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