Your configuration requires, as you have it set, MODX MIDI mode to be USB (and not MIDI - as in 5-pin DIN MIDI).

You've elected to connect your MIDI master (the MPC 4000) to MODX's MIDI ports. Understand how this works. MIDI Port-3 goes through MODX and does not "pass go". It is as if MODX is used only as a USB-to-MIDI cable where the instrument does not get to see any of this MIDI traffic. Anything coming from your DAW to Port-3 cannot be "seen" by MODX - and anything coming from the MPC through Port-3 cannot be "seen" by MODX either. It's just a MIDI cable - not connected to MODX's tone engine or keys or anything else.

What this does is allows for your DAW to become the "hub". You need to send everything from Port-3 to MODX such that the MPC can sequence MODX and target it as a MIDI target (to trigger MDOX's tone generator).

I did not see you had any goal to play MODX's keys and have anything happen - my understanding is that MODX is to be a slave to MPC as a sequencer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The MIDI flow should be:

MPC 4000's MIDI out --> MODX MIDI In (5-pin) --> MODX USB-to-HOST (Port-3) --> DAW --> DAW sends MODX Port-3 to MODX Port-1 --> MODX USB-to-HOST (Port-1) --> MODX tone generator

Then you also have the path for VSTi:

MPC 4000's MIDI out --> MODX MIDI In (5-pin) --> MODX USB-to-HOST (Port-3) --> DAW --> VSTi

The audio routing you probably have setup already. Where your DAW VST instruments are properly sounding through the USB digital channel (either MODX Digital In or MODX Main L/R) and the MPC sounds can be connected from the MPC's audio outputs to MODX's A/D L/R inputs.

I think the part you are having issue with is the MIDI routing within your DAW to send MIDI from the MPC (through MODX's Port-3) back to MODX's MIDI Port-1.

I'll have to setup my keyboard and Cubase laptop to run through this.

Yes that's exactly it. I can get the MPC setup on Reaper to control and record each channel just fine, but I can't seem to crack the ability to record on the MPC while playing from the MODX keys, because the MIDI In for each channel has to be set to the MPC (port 3) for this to work. I also have the MPC setup to control the MODX through MIDI port 1 just fine. Though, I can only get this to work on multiple channels on Reaper. Cubase will play only the specific midi channel that I'm on. Even if I have 5 instruments on all midi channels, when I hit play, they all play the exact same notes on one channel. I can't get even this much this to work on anything but Reaper.

The issue is that none of this can be recorded on the MPC using the MODX keys, since each channel has to be set through port 3, bypassing the USB midi from port 1. The only
potential solution i've been able to think of is attaching a second midi (5 pin) keyboard to the second MPC midi in.

To be clear, I have it setup perfectly between the MPC and MODX as a standalone pair. I've also been able to set things up so that the DAW runs the show, MPC included, and that's looking more and more like the scenario I'm stuck with if I want to use VST's alongside my MODX, until/or unless I get another midi keyboard to hookup to the second midi in on the MPC.

And thanks, by the way.

It's the DAW that needs the routing to connect Port-1 to Port-3. Some DAWs have this facility within the DAW. Some would require a plugin. Sometimes virtual MIDI cables can be useful.

Cubase's built-in function (MIDI send) for this is not available in Elements - but there should be plugins that work.

I haven't fired up my studio yet, but maybe MIDI Polysher will work to route: https://www.eareckon.com/en/products/freebies.html

Something like this can re-channel MIDI if the MPC only sends to one channel: https://www.codefn42.com/notemapper/index.html - I'm thinking about sending note data to multiple channels for MODX.

The "piz" plugins may have what you want. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the main host is online anymore. A repository is here: https://code.google.com/archive/p/pizmidi/downloads . You can probably use archive.org to get to the old documentation pages.

I'm not sure how reaper can or cannot forward/route MIDI inside its DAW.

Yeah i had downloaded Cubase Pro for a demo to try the input Transformer, but I can't figure that out either. I have each channel set with the transformer settings "channel", "unequal", and the corresponding channel number, but it doesn't work. I've scoured the Steinberg forums and found that same configuration as the way to go, but it will only play the currently selected channel.This seems to work for others, but i've checked and rechecked and it doesn't seem like I'm missing anything, but who knows.

Also, I can't locate a Midi Send function in the newer version of Cubase. Reaper is easy to setup and would be perfect if I were using just the MPC with no need to play keys from the MODX.

It took a while to get my studio setup again. There's an argument for another keyboard in here somewhere. That aside - setting up the MPC to communicate with MODX is simple. Here's what I did:

1) Started Cubase AI 9.5 (an older build - an update is available today - but didn't install the update yet) and chose the "Empty" template - as I usually do for starting from scratch.
2) Project -> Add Track -> MIDI
3) Gave the MIDI track a name - MPC4k. Just so I can identify it vs. other things. I don't have an MPC4k - I'll be using a Motif XF to simulate the MPC4k
4) Setup the MIDI track as follows:
4a) Input port as "MONTAGE-3" (I'm using a Montage, you'll use MODX-3 as your input port name)
4b) Output port as "MONTAGE-1" (you'll use MODX-1)
4c) Switch the channel from "1" as the default to "Any"
5) Make sure the MPC4k MIDI track has the record button turned on (red).

My hardware config:

Montage (again, you use the MODX) with MIDI mode set to USB. The Montage (MODX for you) MIDI input port is connected to a Motif XF MIDI out port (this will be the MPC4k for you). The Motif XF is set to use the MIDI port for its output.

When I play MIDI notes on the Motif XF, they travel through:

Motif XF MIDI out port -> Montage MIDI In Port -> USB (MONTAGE-3) -> Cubase -> MIDI Track input (MONTAGE-3) -> MIDI Track Output (MONTAGE-1) -> USB -> Montage MIDI input through USB -> Tone generator (I hear the Performance playing as if I am playing with the local keys, but am using the 5-pin MIDI connected Motif XF)

If I wanted to simultaneously have the MPC control a VSTi, I would setup another track (instrument track). I chose a HALion track (Synth Brass 3) because it comes with Cubase. The input port should be MONTAGE-3 (MODX-3 for you) so the MPC4k is controlling this track and output port is "HALion Sonic SE" which I have setup to play the "synth brass 3" sound.

I pressed the "record" button on both tracks (MIDI and instrument) so that the Motif XF (MPC4k) when playing MIDI using the Motif keyboard would simultaneously play both Montage (MODX for you) and the VSTi.

That's all that is needed to get a VSTi and MODX to simultaneously be controlled by the MPC4k connected to MODX's MIDI IN port (5-pin DIN). The pro version is not required - I'm just using what came with the instrument (AI).

Sorry for the delay - I'm no DAW expert and cannot do this from memory. Had to get my equipment setup first to run through it.

... note: testing with Motif XF Zone Switch turned on (pressing the two buttons at the same time to the left of the knobs) and setting up channels 1-4 to transmit on MIDI channel 1-4 in Performance Master mode - I was able to see 4 channels of MIDI transmitted through MONTAGE-3 (MODX-3 for you) to a MIDI monitor I have as a VSTi plugin (rack instrument). I see Ch1-4 note on and note off events. This is telling me that if the MPC4k could send out multiple MIDI channels at a time (like Motif XF can) - then these would propagate through.

The utility of this is that MODX can be set to multi-channel MIDI and the master controller (MPC4k - or, in my case, the Motif XF) can send to multiple channels at once and control multi-PART instruments.

Even if the MPC4k cannot do this - you can still use plugins to remap channels if that would help. Likely the easiest solution would be to set MODX to single-channel MIDI mode if your MPC4k cannot do multiple channels unless this is too limiting for what you want to do.

I find a MIDI monitor inside Cubase is useful to "see" the MIDI activity at different points in the chain.

Yes, I've tried this exact same configuration, in fact this was the first thing I did. but it only works to the degree that the MPC can controller, record, and play each individual track.

Problem is, i will only play back the specific track selected in Cubase, regardless of which channel is assigned to which, and yes, everything is set to the appropriate channels.

They do not play back together, all at once. I can do this in reaper without issue, provided every note is played from within the MPC. Not so with anything recorded from the MODX keys/

In your case, you're using two keyboards, which underscores the issue i have within reaper. But cubase absolutely will not read even two simultaneous sequenced channels coming from the MPC at the same time under this configuration. Individually, yes, but only whichever channel is selected in Cubase, regardless of the configuration. Thing is, I'm no neophyte and understand the channels and routings, but this just doesn't seem to work under any scenario where the MPC is handling the sequencing. I could use Cubase as the master and slave everything, but that's not at all what I wanted with this setup.

I do appreciate the effort though.

I'm using the Motif XF to simulate the MPC. If your MPC cannot output to different channels simultaneously - you'll need a plugin to handle that for you. I'm not versed on the MPC.

The Motif XF is not connected to the computer - it's connected to the 5-pin DIN on Montage/MODX. Your computer cannot tell the difference between a toaster or a keyboard or an MPC connected to MIDI. They may have different features - but that's a limitation on the MPC side.

What I proved was that when the Motif outputs MIDI to different channels at the same time - Montage/MODX receives those exact channels too. Not one at a time. They all flow through. This is the demonstration of Cubase "reading" two (or I went up to 4 in my test) simultaneous channels.

You say "play back" - I haven't tried that as a test. My setup was to use MODX as a tone generator with the MPC as the master connected to MODX's MIDI IN (5pin DIN port). That was something you stated you had problems with. I proved with the setup that this works assuming the MPC can transmit to multiple MIDI channels at one time. I don't know if it can or cannot.

I can move to recording on Cubase later - but just want to see if using MODX as a tone generator using the MPC as a master is working for you or not.

With due respect, it doesn't seem like you're actually pay attention to the actual issues I've expressed. Frankly, you seem a bit condescending and overly eager to "teach" as though anyone encountering any difficulty in ferreting out a solution to an issue must have absolutely no clue about the basics.

The MPC outputs on 64 channels. In fact, that's what MPC stands for:

Midi Production Center

The issue has never been using the MODX as a tone generator with the MPC as master connected to the pin MIDI, and I've never said as much. Ever. In fact, I've been crystal clear about what the exact issues are/were, and at no point has that been one of them. In fact, I've literally said the opposite:

"To be clear, I have it setup perfectly between the MPC and MODX as a standalone pair."

Just like your XF, my MPC is not connected to the computer either. It's connected to the MODX. I'm not sure what the toaster comment is about, and none of this has a thing to do with any supposed limitations on the MPC side.

"I've also been able to set things up so that the DAW runs the show, MPC included"

Another Example:

"You've elected to connect your MIDI master (the MPC 4000) to MODX's MIDI ports. Understand how this works. MIDI Port-3 goes through MODX and does not "pass go". It is as if MODX is used only as a USB-to-MIDI cable where the instrument does not get to see any of this MIDI traffic. Anything coming from your DAW to Port-3 cannot be "seen" by MODX - and anything coming from the MPC through Port-3 cannot be "seen" by MODX either. It's just a MIDI cable - not connected to MODX's tone engine or keys or anything else."

You wrote all of this as though you didn't bother to read a word of my OP, because I said these things in my original post:

"The MODX is the audio/midi interface, and I think this is where the problem lies. I have to use midi port 3 on the MODX in order to use the MPC to sequence, as this utilizes the 5-pin midi I/O on the MODX.

So, for example, I'll have two VST's loaded, with the input set for their corresponding midi channels through port 3. As long as I am playing the pads on the MPC, I can sequence each channel independently, and it will record just fine.

The issue is when I attempt to play an instrument on the MODX keys, as I have to use midi port 1 for this, but this is the USB port and doesn't use the 5-pin midi out, so while I can hear the sound and record the sound through Reaper, this won't register in the MPC."

So it's odd that you'd say that I said one of my issues was controlling the MODX via the 5-pin, because you'd have to completely ignore everything i said about the way the USB midi and 5-pin midi work in order to get anywhere near that conclusion, and even then, as I've shown.... I've said that i have things setup between the two just fine as a standalone pair.

Frankly, if you're trying to be helpful, stop the unnecessary condescending jabs (the toaster nonsense, "it's just a midi cable", the constant suggestions that the MPC may not output multichannel midi despite the fact that I literally said was able to accomplish this in reaper) and actually pay attention to the issues being expressed. Further, when someone makes consistent, repeated statements that clearly demonstrate that they grasp how things work (and YES, I've absolutely demonstrated this by pointing out several specific instances in this very post), maybe don't do the "understand how this works" in direct response to them CLEARLY SHOWING THEY UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WORKS.

For what it's worth, I resolved my issue this evening by turning to the suggestion I made earlier, by adding a second midi keyboard to control the second MPC midi input and creating the appropriate midi routings in Reaper. Frankly, this is the only reason I stopped biting my tongue with your passive aggressive tact. You seem to both want to sincerely help, but also talk down at the same time, and those aren't compatible.

Thanks for being patient with me - I know you're starting from a point of frustration after trying many things and also from being an expert with your equipment. As stated, I'm not a DAW expert. The verbosity is meant to be sure I'm reproducing the setup to gather meaningful results. I've been able to record data from my simulated MPC to Cubase and playback of the recording is correctly triggering the VSTi and MODX.

I think I was too focused on your original post statement:

but I'd really prefer my main workflow be with the MPC as my master sequencer, utilizing both the MODX and my VST arsenal as sound modules for the MPC.

Where I was trying to be sure that this configuration was working for you as I, flawed of a perspective as it may be (note: not sarcastic -- tone is difficult to convey here -- straight up) , I saw this as your ultimate goal. Therefore, I was trying to stay on a path of simulating the MPC and making sure Cubase successfully recorded the MIDI stream to correctly playback a set of sequenced tracks from MPC targeting both a VSTi hosted by Cubase and MODX.

I see "standalone pair" as MODX + the MPC without any computer or USB connectivity. Let me know if this was incorrect.

Moving on to the MODX as the master

The issue is when I attempt to play an instrument on the MODX keys, as I have to use midi port 1 for this, but this is the USB port and doesn't use the 5-pin midi out, so while I can hear the sound and record the sound through Reaper, this won't register in the MPC."

I want to be clear in my own mind - you're playing the MODX keys targeting the MODX tone generator - or is this to trigger the VSTi hosted by your DAW? Your MPC's role is to record the MIDI messages from MODX in this usage?

... it'd help to know the answers - but here's what I did to take a stab:

I had to add a MIDI cable from MODX's MIDI OUT port to the MPC MIDI IN port. This is so I can play the MODX keys and have the MPC record these events - indirectly, passing through Cubase first. I added another MIDI track and named it "MODX to MPC4k". Setup the input port as MODX-1 and the output port as MODX-3. Finally, I set the channel filter to "Any" and armed the track. Now when I play notes on the MODX keyboard - MIDI messages go through USB to MODX-1 (MODX to MPC4k track) and out to MODX-3 which is the MPC4k. The MPC4k receives all channels that are setup on MODX. If one PART is used, then only MIDI channel 1 will be sent to the MPC. If PARTs 1-4 are used then MIDI channels 1, 2, 3, and 4 will be sent to the MPC. This is subject to the normal rules that Keyboard Control (MODX setting) = ON for all used PARTs. Isolation of single tracks can be accomplished by turning keyboard control OFF for all PARTs then selecting a PART which will send that selected PART's MIDI out to the MPC. Or, optionally, one can turn on only some of the PARTs' keyboard control ON - then press [PERFORMANCE] (so no PART is selected) - then all the PARTs with Keyboard Control = ON will send MIDI and any with Keyboard Control off will not send MIDI. Also, my setup has MODX as Multi-Channel MIDI mode which allows for sending data out multiple channels simultaneously. This provides the most flexibility in both directions (either playing MODX keys as master or slaving MODX to the MPC). As one can reduce down to a single channel using keyboard control.

I verified the "MPC" was able to receive multiple channels by placing the Motif XF in Song mode and setting channels 1-4 to wildly different sounds and cycling through individual PARTs on MODX using keyboard control.

MODX as master - Cubase documents the MIDI in the "MODX to MPC4k" track. MPC as master - I have the same two tracks as the original, with slightly different titles. "MPC4k to MODX" which is a track forwarding MIDI from the MPC4k to MODX and "Synth Brass 3" which is the VSTi and a duplicate of the same data - just a different target. It would have been more economical to restrict this setup to MIDI Channel 1 as the VSTi does not require capturing all MIDI channels.

If I wanted MODX keys to also control a VSTi - I would setup another mirror image HALion track with the MIDI input as MODX-1 (whereas the previous VSTi had MODX-3 as the MIDI input, mastered by the MPC).