What do you mean by 'User Sets'? Do you mean the Live Sets that are saved in one of the 8 Live Set User Banks?

If so then, yes, The John Melas Software has a Live Set Editor that lets you do that. Remove the '-' chars from this link:

-h-t-t-p-:-/-/-w-w-w-.jmelas.gr/montage/live.php

When it comes to a gig I rearrange the order of performances in the User set to the order as required for the night.  I do this manually on the keyboard itself.

I'm still trying to understand just what you mean by 'User set' so forgive me if I use different terms to try to explain.

On the Modx you can create from 1-8 'User Banks' of live set entries. Each of those 8 banks has 16 'Live Set Pages' with each page having 16 'Live Set Slots'. So each bank can have an ordered list of 256 performances for a total of 2048 performances.

All 8 user banks are saved in any user backup or user library file that you create.

 it seems you need to save the reordered set as a Library and then load it into the MODX as a library, otherwise you are overwriting all the user sets.This would seem to be a common task for people in gigging bands with say 100 songs in the repertoire but needing to create a new playlist of say 40 songs at each gig.

Yes - and the functionality on the instrument is very limited as you likely already know. It isn't easy to move or copy things around even on the same page. It's even messier if you want to copy things from one page to another or from one bank to another. The Melas software can help you here.

You can save the entire set of 8 user banks in either a user backup file or a user library file. In either case all 8 banks are saved. But if you create a new user/library file you aren't overwriting anything.

One common practice is:

1. create a new user/library file for each gig that has a custom live set list in one of the banks for that gig

2. at the gig load the user/library file needed for that gig. If you are NOT using your own Modx then take a user backup of the gig's Modx before loading your own user/library file. Then after the gig reload the backup to restore the gig's Modx

3. before the gig starts manually position the instrument to the correct live set bank and page.

4. during the gig change the live set slot as needed. You can do this manually on the touchscreen, using a footswitch programmed to change the slot, or by sending using an external controller to set the appropriate program change messages to change the live set slot.

Thanks Toby,

Sorry - yes  - I am talking about the live sets.  As the Banks of Live Sets are labelled (initially) as User 1 to User 8 I fell into that description.

And each User Bank has Live Page 1- Live Page 16.

So eg. for Bank 1 I have renamed it "Band 1" and all the songs we do are in that Bank.

Similarly I have renamed other Banks with the band name associated with those songs.

So typically I will manually rearrange the song order in the Live Set pages in a particular bank, to suit the order of songs at the gig.

I am just wondering of I can do the reordering with Melas tools and then save directly back to the individual bank  Live Set pages or if I need to save back to the MODX as a library?

cheers

Yes - you can manipulate the live set banks with the Melas Live Set Editor.

or if I need to save back to the MODX as a library?

No - you don't need to save back as a library. But unless I am mistaken the Melas tools don't work directly with the Modx - you need to use either a user backup or a library file.

So you could create a user backup on the Modx, copy it to the PC, modify the Live Set banks with the Melas tools, save the modified user file, copy the user file back to the Modx and load it.

CAVEAT - every time you load a user backup on the Modx it completely overwrites whatever user objects you had before. So before you load a user backup you always need to determine if you need to make a backup of the Modx before the load.

Just a reminder for those who may not know - a live set slot entry DOES NOT contain the performance itself. The entry only points to a: preset, library performance or user area performance. So when you copy a live slot entry you are NOT making a copy of the performance - you are just making a copy of the pointer so both pointers will point to the SAME performance.

You can use Melas tools to edit the User Bank Live Set while your MODX is connected and the changes will be reflected on the instrument without the need to save to a user file or library.  You could do this saving, but it is not necessary assuming you want the Live Set to remain in the User Bank and do not need to backup your Live Set edits for later recall or possibly recall on an instrument that isn't yours (backline supplied by a 3rd party, for example).

The User Bank edits remain when you power off the instruments regardless if you save a User File or not.

Thanks Jason and Toby,

That's great - so the Melas editor just becomes a live image of the instrument which you can reorganise more simply from the computer.

Be proactive about saving your Modx work regularly.

You are correct - the Melas tools give you much more flexibility in moving things around.

At the risk of sounding pushy I would add a comment about what the other responder said:

The User Bank edits remain when you power off the instruments regardless if you save a User File or not.

He is specifically referring to changes to live set data that you make on the Modx (directly or via Melas).

Changes to the current performance are NOT saved automatically. So if you turn the power off you will lose any of those changes to that performance.

The Modx (nor Montage, Montage M, Modx+) does NOT have modes. It is ALWAYS in 'edit' mode.

So you REALLY have to be careful about deciding just when to actually use 'STORE' to save the current performance.

The fundamental fact is that there is ALWAYS a performance loaded. It is NOT possible to turn on the instrument without there being a performance in the edit buffer.

And when the instrument is ON almost ANY control you touch is going to change that performance whether you intented to or not. So if you ONLY make live set changes you don't need to use 'STORE' to persist them.

But if you do use STORE it will save any changes, intentional or not, that were made to the performance.

A common problem we see is a user that loads a 'finished' performance to test their live set configurations and then use STORE because they though that was needed to save the live set work they did. What happens is that all of the control movement they did during testing got saved as the DEFAULT values for the performance that was saved and the lost the defaults they thought their 'finished' performance had.

1. load 1st live set entry - test it a bit

2. load 2nd live set entry - test it a bit

3. tweak the 2nd live set entry to adjust the volume

4. test it - PERFECT 

5. use STORE to save your new live set info

6. WRONG! you just altered the performance that the 2nd live set entry used because when you tested it you were moving controls which made changes. Then the STORE saved those changes and the performance is no longer the same as when you loaded it in step #2 above.

Don't use 'STORE' to save live set changes - they are saved automatically. Only use store to save changes to the current performance.

The above is a key reason I recommend creating and using either a user backup file or a library file for gigs. Loading such a file guarantees that you will get whatever the file contained when you created it.

Only you can decide how much risk you want to take.

Good Luck!

It's a good clarification.   Live Sets are different than (some) other things you can edit.  They don't themselves have a "STORE" function.  You can only edit the User Live Set and these Live Set edits do not need any additional action to be taken in order to keep from losing them.

When you SAVE the User Bank you get a choice to save (to a USB stick) the entire user bank as a Library file (X8L) or User file (X8U).  Either of these will save the Live Set along with it.  Also saving everything by making a full backup (X8A file) will save the Live Set.  These are the only ways to restore a Live Set after initializing your keyboard or onto another MODX.  There's no function to save just the Live Set by itself.  It must always accompany the User Bank Performances (for X8L and X8U) or everything including the Libraries and all other data (X8A).

My understanding is you just want to reorganize the Live Set positions and for that, I personally wouldn't save anything.   I would have already saved all of the Performances in a backup and perhaps just the user file as well.   Just modifying the set list, for me, would not be a huge loss since it would have been saved in some form in the backups made before rearranging the Set List.   That said, if you have a Set List that's more common than others and you haven't saved a backup (or User) file then you may wish to do this so you can restore this common order backup file or user file and then Melas edit it for every gig.   It's up to you ultimately how you manage this.

Separate from Live Set editing ... As long as you maintain some backup that has all of your Performances to the current date - you're good.  If you don't have this then you would be playing with fire.  I've lost everything before on my first "pro" Yamaha keyboard (MO6).  Some kind of memory corruption.  There was no recent backup.  Oops.

Thanks Guys,

As per Jason's comment, yes - I am more interested in just being able to reorder the live sets as required to suit each gig.

I do make regular backups, as with bands I am constantly adding more songs to the repertoire and don't want to lose or mess up performances that I have spent hours creating.

So my understanding is that I can just open the relevant live set in on the MODX and then do reordering with the Melas waveform editor which then will automatically be reflected on the instrument.

This to me is worth the money for the time required to do it manually on the instrument.

cheers