I ran into this issue when I was trying to record a few arpeggios and I wanted to trigger the arps with an external device (a computer) so I could use the computer to automate changing arps and triggering the arps for recording. This seemed like the easiest way to "batch" this task but you notice that when you set Arp MIDI Out to ON - this disconnects the arpeggiator from any external MIDI. Only "Keyboard" (local keyboard) is before the arpeggiator.

There are a few things that provide "local keyboard" output outside of the keys on the keyboard.

1) If you play a MIDI song file then this will end up using the "local keys" before the arpeggiator (set to Arp MIDI Out ON). This was my solution. I created a song that pressed a trigger note then use the computer to Start/Stop this song. This doesn't work very well for your situation where you may want to change the chords and probably don't want to go through and export your DAW MIDI to be played locally on the Montage/MODX.

2) The USB TO DEVICE port will also generate notes as if they were played by the local keys. This one may be a bit tricky because you'd need to have some kind of device that connects to your computer and outputs MIDI to a type "A" connector such that your computer looks like a keyboard device and not a host. There are probably solutions out there that do this but are not mainstream and I don't have any such device in my collection. (If I had to) I would probably end up building one out of various development boards I have laying around that would support the necessary USB code to do this and "act" as a class MIDI device.

One thing that could be used is a USB-to-5-pin-DIN MIDI cable (various manufacturers have this) and then connect the 5-pin-DIN connectors of this cable to a MIDI interface that connects to a PC like I have available in one of my audio interfaces (and mixer combo). I don't have the USB-to-MIDI cable but that's less expensive than my time invested in building a solution from scratch. I take it this would work. The USB side of this cable I would plug into MODX/Montage's USB TO DEVICE port.

Then I would reconfigure the DAW to use this interface - at least for MIDI. Audio should still be able to use the MODX/Montage intended drivers if you utilize audio.

Also be aware there are other caveats to deal with. If using Single or Hybrid MIDI modes, you cannot use the Arp MIDI Out feature. So be sure your keyboard is in Multi-Channel MIDI mode (advanced settings).

I want to Send midi that is ALREADY recorded in my Daw and get back ARP midi to record back to my daw from the Montage or MoDX. ie

existing Midi from Daw --- Montage/Modx---arp midi out to Daw.

The only possibility is to either
(1)send daw midi and get the arpreggiated Audio back from the montage or
(2) get arpeggio midi out to daw IF only if I play from the montage/modx keybed.

If you impose the limitations as posted, then indeed your conclusion will limit you to those two options and never include an actual solution. You are not allowing for the fact that: Perhaps Yamaha designed the MONTAGE/MODX to record its own Arpeggio data as a basic priority… meaning, to turn around and use it to receive external MIDI —> create arpeggio phrases —> and simultaneously output this for external devices; (as if it were a stand-alone Arp generating box without a multi-Part Tone Generator of its own) just might be something that would NOT be a design priority — just saying, you might have to work-the-system to get what you desire.

Given that there are as many as eight independent Arpeggiators that can be operating simultaneously, on eight separate MIDI Tracks, there are priorities to be considered.

A brief outline of how you would proceed follows — it assumes you know how to assign arpeggios to Parts, etc. (if not, we can give you links to several tutorials) It deals with the concept of documenting the Arps to the Performance Recorder and then transferring MONTAGE/MODX Arps to your DAW as MIDI data.

If you have the MIDI data recorded in your DAW and you wish to have one or more of the MONTAGE/MODX Arpeggiators do their thing, (because it is more convenient to have the DAW “play” the Arps instead of real-time keyboard input)… cool, a viable workflow.

If your desire is to send the “trigger notes” IN via MIDI, you can do so — this is provided for — you can feed MIDI IN directly to the Arpeggiator Block. The OUTPUT of the Arpeggiator Block, however, will be the MONTAGE/MODX Tone Generator (not the MIDI OUT as you are requesting). Therefore, the setting for “ARP MIDI OUT” will not be available when the MIDI IN is the source of the trigger notes. (That much we assume you have noticed. And that is by design).

This makes sense from the point of view of what would satisfy the primary needs of the MONTAGE/MODX as a keyboard synthesizer product (probably what the designers had first in mind was to have the MONTAGE/MODX to be able to simultaneously play some of its Parts direct, via the onboard Keyboard, while allowing the assigned Arpeggiator to “play” other Parts; you can even control external devices both directly and/or via an assigned Arp… all when using the built-in Keyboard
__ trigger data from the KEYBOARD are different from data coming In via MIDI IN

What you can do as a solution…
_ Set the MONTAGE/MODX to slave to MIDI Clock — you do so by tapping the Tempo on the top line of the main screen. Set SYNC = MIDI
_Set your DAW to Send MIDI Clock to the MONTAGE/MODX on Port 1
_Recall the Performance you wish to use
Assign the Arp Phrases to the internal Parts you wish to Arpeggiate or to “dummy” internal Parts (if your ultimate goal is to trigger other synths…)
STORE your Performance
Under “Play/Rec” > select “MIDI”. This launches the linear Song function

Press RECORD
A New Song will be selected
Tap the box and give the Song a Name
Set “Arp Rec On”.

You can use the built-in Performance Recorder to document the Output of the Arpeggiators; Then you can simply drag and drop the results (via USB) into your DAW.

When you start playback of your DAW, your trigger notes will engage the assigned Arp Phrases, the data of those phrases trigger the assigned Part and will be recorded to the Part’s dedicated TRACK in the internal Performance Recorder (every MONTAGE/MODX Part has its own dedicated MIDI Track).

Once your transfer is complete, STOP your DAW.
On the synth:
Press [UTILITY] > “Contents” > “Data Utility” > SONG
You will see your data listed as a .MID file in this folder.

Transfer the data directly to your DAW via USB
Use MONTAGE CONNECT or MODX CONNECT (whichever you own), to drag and drop the .MID file from the MONTAGE/MODX Song Folder (viewable via the CONNECT utility) directly into your DAW or simply drop it on your computer desktop and load it to your DAW.

Hope that helps. The first time you do it it might seem complex because there is not a completely real-time function… but if you are NOT using the Keyboard as your arpeggio INPUT device, your routing options are as explained above. It is actually quite quick and easy once you can navigate the functions.

Extra Credit:
Just FYI — There are some items among the Arpeggiator/Motion Sequencer functions, that can only be documented as Audio… some times what they are putting in motion does not generate a MIDI “footprint”… you don’t mention specifically what you are doing or want to do with the Arpeggio function, but we assume since you are sending data IN via MIDI and want to send it immediately to the OUT, you were looking to *bypass* the MONTAGE/MODX entirely (except for its Arpeggio function)… We assume you are wanting to use the traditional types of Arps to trigger other (external) modules or synths.

Our suggestion is not direct… you are creating a MIDI version of Arp Phrases, using MONTAGE/MODX sounds… then you are exporting the MIDI to your DAW where you can route it to the tone generator of your choice.

I recommend that during “try outs”: use the the MONTAGE/MODX Keyboard (then you can route the “ARP MIDI OUT” to the tone engine of your choice using your DAW). Get every thing set as you like.
Then when you are ready to actually print the data, switch to using the MIDI IN to trigger the Arps — using internal “dummy” Parts to write the Arp MIDI data to the internal Song… then the final step is transfer the data (drag n drop) to your DAW and reassign to the tone engines you decided on during “try outs”.

There maybe other approaches, depending on the specifics of what you require.

And there I was thinking this limitation was to prevent automated analysis of the Arp System's operations.

If you were thinking something was designed to prevent, then you weren’t really thinking…

[quotePost id=119795]If you were thinking something was designed to prevent, then you weren’t really thinking…[/quotePost]

Certainly true of modern "vaccines"

Thank you all for the replies. Awesome resource we have here.
Jason, thank you for the pointer about using the usb to device port.

I have solved the problem wish 2 usb to midi cables and a Female to Female MIDI Coupler.

Connect one to the daw(computer) and another to the usb to device port on the montage. Connect the midi out from the daw to the midi in to the montage cables. That is all.

Now, any midi clips eg chorg progression that you have previously recorded in your daw can be sent to the MontageModx and importantly at the same time receive the midi Arp out back to the daw. This way takes no time and you can even audition different midi patterns from the daw in real time while getting back arp data based off those different changes. This greatly integrates the Montage/ Modx into the daw even more. Hopefully this can be added in

Bad Mister thank you for your input. Your tutorials have helped me so much over the years. 🙂

Glad that worked for you. Using the USB midi cables was theoretical since I didn't have the hardware to verify. Glad you could cobble together something and prove it works. I was going to get Roland's MIDI USB cable just to have and test (they're on sale and Yamaha doesn't sell these anymore). However, since it had a driver I wasn't sure if the Roland cable operated in class compliant mode (i.e. no driver). Maybe you can let folks know the model of cable connected to the TO DEVICE port so others could do the same and meet with success.

Jason, I actually went thru the same process of wondering about the drivers. I did get 2 Roland MIDI USB Um-one cables.
The drivers are Not an issue. The USB TO Device port will work without any drivers. Just plug and it powers up. You can install the drivers for the other cable connected to the computer so that it shows up as a MIDI out port in your DAW. I went with the Roland because i thought it would have solid drivers, but I think any USB to MIDI cables will work.
Very important is the following connection.
1} From the cable connected to the computer, MIDI IN to {midi is outputting from here} >>>
2} <<>>>
3} <<< From the cable connected to the MontageModx USB TO DEVICE PORT, connect the MIDI out {midi is coming in here because this jack connects to the OUT of a keyboard} to the coupler.

Roland here is labelling the midi jack to WHERE IT SHOULD CONNECT TO. IF you are using a different brand for the usb-Midi cables, check the labelling. Note if the midi jacks are labelled to where they should connect to.

This is the easiest and fastest way to move midi out from the DAW, thru the arppegiator and back out to the daw in realtime.