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MiniMoogers.... lend me your ears!!

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Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

Yeah, I actually hear the pitch mods in the recording - but just scaled them down and avoided delaying them since they seemed to happen right away. But whatever works for you. After all, I don't necessarily see the goal of 100% accuracy to another sound as, at least for myself, the best goal to have. Something "reimagined" that captures the essence is the goal I set. As technology changes so do the behaviors. Some artists sample their studio stuff to get a "perfect" reproduction live (without much chance for dynamic modulation) - but mostly I see sounds adapting to the equipment available and this is my general approach.

What I'm getting at here as my keeping and your nixing the pitch mod are both correct decisions. If we were playing this at different venues - there's nothing wrong with the resulting variation in voice. We'd have our own unique "take" on what this sound is supposed to do - and that's a musical decision we are free to have to craft our "sound".

Yes, there are limitations. Another thread discussing some limitation in choices of FEG. Sometimes I'll use motion sequence instead although MS is peanut-butter and doesn't follow single notes. It "sort of" does when you use mono - but tails of releases of the past notes will still be affected by filter modulation using MS. So it's not as surgical - but still there for the taking.

Altogether - if I had full source to the engine and could handle making changes (magically) - I'd see what I could do about changing how this all works. However, what's there still has flexibility and finite power -- not infinite but power nonetheless.

In the end - I think no matter what road you end up taking (and there are several) - you'll end up with a sound you're completely satisfied with.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 13/02/2022 1:09 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

@J

I totally understand the concept of "close is good enough" and allowing personal artistic licence. In my Guitar experience, there came a point of realisation that chasing accuracy was largely pointless and a risk to mental health... straying into OCD.

In this case, it was as much about learning Synthesis and the capabilities of the MODX, than accuracy. I guessed, and hoped, there would be a simple solution or formula, and that turned out to be the case. The guess was due to the fact that Rick Wright was famously a "simple is good" musician, it was David Gilmour and Roger Waters who preferred obtuse and convoluted creation.

So I have learned a little more about the MiniMoog... it had 3 Oscillators including Saw and Triangle. Also, it had a single oscillator option of combined Saw+Triangle, as well as a Reverse Saw (Ramp) oscillator, which had a softer/warmer sound than the normal Saw. My guess is Rick Wright used some combination of Saw, Ramp, Tri and Saw-Tri for that sound... but without owning a MiniMoog I will never truly know.

There's a second aspect in developing this "Part". The "Brass Lead" timbre changes throughout the song, but remains generally similar. These timbre changes, I am guessing, would be due to simple Knob Turns, or Switch Flicks on the MM. Following this "hunch" might allow me develop some basic controls to Modify the Timbre. For example, using AF1 & AF2 to Swap and Replace Elements, or Switch up FM stacks. Similarly, Assign Knobs to alter FEG Depth and/or Cutoff.

There is a purpose, I'm not just pestering you all for some random Goose Chase 😉

btw... When I finish my Opus, I will post it on Soundmondo.... free for everyone. When I first bought the MODX I also shelled out $150 on Pink Floyd sound libraries, which were (still are) utter garbage. Hopefully, this will save anyone else throwing away good money.

 
Posted : 13/02/2022 3:12 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
Topic starter
 

If anyone is interested in trying for themselves...

I used two Saw Elements and Two Triangle Elements (I am using 3rd Party samples, but initially started with MODX P5 Saw 0° and P5 Saw 90°, and 2 generic "Tri Wave".

All elements Coarse Tune = 0, with +/- 2 Fine tune between pairs, Saws panned hard L&R, Triangles panned 20 L&R.

I set up similar FEG for all Elements, with a "Convex" Attack portion (steep Attack rise, followed by a Shallower Decay1 Rise), then a Shallow Decay2 gradient to the Sustain/Decay2 level, with small-moderate Release.

The AEGs were initially just Open Boxes ( Attack 10, all levels 127). Then I decided to make the AEGs loosely follow the FEGs and used the Decay1 and Decay2 to create a cross fade between the Saws and Triangles, such that the Saw decay level is dipped, while the Triangle level "blooms" just above.

So you get that Brassy attack with a Flutey decay.

I found that unbalancing the two Triangles gives a darker, thicker tone... so slightly different fine detunes, FEG curves & sustain levels, and Amp Sustain levels. I also unbalanced the Pan (moderate right and left of centre).

Its still work in progress, but its closer than I've been thus far.

 
Posted : 13/02/2022 6:06 am
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