"All" pianos? What about the DA piano? "Acoustic Piano DA" -- I'm not sure about the panning on this one - but would think a "direct" piano wouldn't get the panning treatment.

You can also check: "Amplitude" > "Level/Pan" - and the "Scaling Pan" parameter. As this could be setup to make low notes bias towards one direction and high notes bias towards the opposite speaker (simulating the sound coming from "left" to "right" ). You may need or want to defeat this if it has been programmed for this kind of directional effect. Reference: https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/ac-pianos-sound#reply-96026

It's my understanding that some pianos have the samples themselves panned - so even when the panning is "C" - there is actually a difference in the sound output on L vs R channels. There's another thread where it's explained that panning in Yamaha (Montage/MODX and earlier generations too) works best on samples that themselves are centered. As panning does "weird stuff" to samples that are not evenly panned to begin with. Reference: https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/psa-how-pan-works-on-yamaha-montage

Jason thanx.
I believe as you say the pianos are sampled in stereo.
I have not found any way to center them as yet.
I have tried "Amplitude" > "Level/Pan" - and the "Scaling Pan" parameter, but have not come across a useful setting.

According to what I see - the suggestion is that some pianos are sampled as not being center panned. I cannot double-check this as I don't have my keyboard setup and cannot really do this for perhaps a couple weeks. But if others' reporting is accurate - some pianos are sampled non-centered. Meaning there is a difference in the level of piano in the L vs the R channel even when the keyboard's panning parameter is set to center. And, furthermore, because of the way samples interact with the panning parameter, that using the panning parameter to try to get such pianos back to center doesn't work - as the feature to adjust panning only works in an intuitive "correct" manner if the original sample is itself center panned.

It would be best to wipe the slate clean - however - and stop speaking in generalities.

1) Does "Acoustic Piano DA" fix at least the panning issue - is this a piano that's center panned without making any adjustments? You may not ultimately want to use this piano (if you can help it) - but I'm wondering if it at least provides an option for a piano that "out of the box" is already center panned.

2) What piano performance are you ideally wanting to use? List one. But be specific - document the exact name as it appears on the screen. Document if it is a factory preset or from a library and document which library it comes from (example: BÖSENDORFER PIANO FOR MONTAGE). That way, support can align with the exact piano you would ideally want to target and develop a strategy to center the piano using these specifics. Different piano performances may be constructed differently and therefore require a different set of steps to accomplish this goal.

Acoustic Piano DA is a stereo sample
The best audio difference is between Concert Grand and to the left Rock Brite Piano one is stereo and the other center perfect for me.
Old and Squashed and 1968 is also centered. Are there other pianos centered that I haven't found..?

Thanks for the question.

I need to center the piano performances on the MODX. they are all panned in the main sample on all elements from left to right in my ear. Each element is panned C on the elements part . How do I center the piano sound?

Here’s what’s going on. The principal acoustic piano Waveforms are sampled in stereo (a Waveform with “St” as the last characters is a Stereo sample). You are provided stereo and mono versions of each of the two principal pianos (the 9’ Yamaha CF3 and the 6’9” Yamaha S6). These are the Waveforms found in the majority of Acoustic Piano Performances.

You are also, by the way, offered both stretch tuned and non-stretched tuned (flat) versions of each of these principal acoustic piano Waveforms. Complete Soft, Medium, and Hard strike versions. And there is a velocity-switching Waveform that represents the entire acoustic piano instrument in a single multi-sampled Element (it will have the letters “Sw” in the Waveform name to signify velocity-switching takes place within the Waveform). A Waveform can contain a few as one and as many as 256 samples.

The programmers can build their individual acoustic pianos Performances based on their own preferences (and so can you).

Attempting to place an acoustic piano in the center of a mix can be accomplished by creating a mono version of your selected piano. You can construct a mono version using the CF3 and S6 Waveform data

How to proceed in altering your Acoustic Piano program
This can be done very quickly as follows:

Recall “Full Concert Grand” — this is a program made from the CF3 Stereo Stretched-tuned Waveform set.
Select Part 1 and then press [ENTER]
Touch “Osc/Tune”
Touch “Elem1”

Here you can see the Waveform for Element 1... “Preset 3 - Piano/Piano - CF3 Stretch Soft St” highlight that Waveform Name box and press [INC/YES] to advance to the “Preset 4 - Piano/Piano - CF3 Stretch Soft Mn” Waveform

Touch “Elem2”
Advance +1 from the “St” (Stereo) Version to the “Mn” (Mono) Version of the Waveform.
Rinse and repeat for each of the Elements, in turn. The Mono version is listed right next to the stereo version on the MODX Waveform List.

You can compare the ‘Mono’ version with the ‘Stereo’ version by pressing the [EDIT/COMPARE] — it flashes while in ‘compare’ and all changes are locked out.

You have created a monaural version of the “Full Concert Grand”.
The “Monaural Grand MW” is very similar.

Immediately, Center is Center when playing the mono version. Notice, across the full range the position remains centered.

When piano is not a principal focus of the mix, a monaural version of the piano is very useful. The stereo, stretched tuned acoustic piano programs are designed to be played as solo/ featured instruments in most instances.

You would utilize the non-stretched tuned (or “Flat” ) versions when wishing to create a piano + layered sound, otherwise you may find the tuning a bit edgy at the extreme high and low ends of the range. The Flat tuned versions are used when layering with pads, strings, etc., etc. where you want tight tuning across all keys. You will notice stretched tuned waveforms sound out-of-tune if layered with a standard tuned layer.

The Waveforms of Yamaha CFX and Yamaha S700 pianos are provided in stereo format only.

Bad Mister,
Perfect. This is easy with your explanation and took only seconds.
Initially, setting all to mono ,the sound is kinda out of phrase, so adjust to personal taste.
I then found that when I choose only one element and stretched it across the whole board, that even a single 'stereo' hard sample sounds 100% better for me than what's in the preset. Much closer to the sound in the S90 or es rack. that I am searching to recreate.
I hadn't found the time to learn how this worked as yet. I purchased the MODX on Nov 29th and have had over 50 shows since. I even bought the ES Rack and installed the PLG PF 150 piano board inside and midi to it from the MODX. The piano is critical. Now I have some real options. Thanx again. Use to call myself Bad Dad.. when all the kids lived at home.

Lyle Stang
full time musician
Buffalo New York U.S.A.

The System Effects must be taken into account. The Reverb, in particular, which is a Stereo Return. So when you select a Mono Piano, any Reverb Send will return via the stereo bus. The stark difference between hearing the Stereo sample (in stereo, that is, through a true 2-speaker system) and the Mono sample (in that same system) is always very dramatic.

Listening to a Stereo sample in a mono sound system (one speaker system), is always very unsatisfying. There is psycho-acoustics and personal opinion involved in what makes each of us most comfortable. But no doubt, playing a Stereo sampled program from the MONTAGE/MODX through a single speaker is LESS satisfying than hearing it in a two-speaker stereo speaker system. And no doubt, a two-speaker stereo system can give you a more natural feeling of sitting at a piano - if you are the one performing.

Mono samples have a place, however, in ensemble music when a wide spatial piano-centric vibe is not desired. Also if you have to perform and all that is available is a single speaker sound system (like a keyboard amp) you would be better served with using a monaural sampled piano.

But again, what makes each of us feel comfortable can vary and what you combine the sound with has a great impact, as well.

Bad Mister, it was mentioned you play jazz......curious if you'd share your choice for ac piano sound that you play on stage and record.s ...
Your personal patches for other instruments like brass ( in a pop blues sec settings) , el pia and main piano.
at this point, I use Session horns Pro and EZ drummer in studio
If personal choices can not be revealed outside this box lylestangmusic@yahoo.com

thank you.
Lyle Stang