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Pedal steel guitar emulation...

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 Stu
Posts: 103
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

On a typical keyboard you can only bend all the notes you are playing at one time using the pitchbend controller. One of the things unique to the pedal steel instrument is the ability to move some strings in a chord, often lowering and raising strings while having one or more stay the same pitch.

The Yamaha Genos pedal steel patch is capable of pitch bending just the low notes and leaving the high melody notes in pitch.

I'm trying to figure out a way to do this (or something close) on the MODX.

So far I've thought of layering two identical steel guitar parts and only allowing pitchbend on one of them. However that would allow more than one or two notes to remain at the original pitch. I'm wondering if the judicious use of one or more live controls would able to change the pitch of single notes during a pitch bend.

Any suggestions welcome.

 
Posted : 14/07/2020 10:08 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
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What I've done is made splits across the keyboard - often using multiple PARTs (all using a guitar sound of some time -- I like standard guitar sounds for pedal steel better than the built-in pedal steel). What I'll have sometimes is the split may have a couple fingers on one side of the split and other fingers on the other side of the split. Then I'll assign a different pitch bend amount for each PART in the split. This way I can bend between one chord and another target chord. I'll make bend from neutral to bend "up" one kind of mix of pitch bend amounts - and will assign a different set for the bend "down" to neutral. This gives the possibility of a couple different options for old-to-new chord qualities (minor, major, dominant, etc). And often I'll have a few different areas of the keyboard where I can handle all of the bend/"morphs" that I want to do for the tune. I'll notate in standard notation what notes I should play and symbols for either prebend down to start, prebend up to start, etc.

The other prep work I do sometimes for this is to use microtonal scales that allow for different note options. This is not necessarily needed most of the time.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 16/07/2020 2:55 am
 Stu
Posts: 103
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Topic starter
 

Very clever Jason.... I'll give that a try... Thanks!

 
Posted : 16/07/2020 2:34 pm
Posts: 0
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I'd love to hear that in action.

 
Posted : 19/07/2020 6:39 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
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I'll record something. FYI - I won't have access to the keyboard for a couple weeks.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/07/2020 8:02 pm
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We played a song this week called "I Hope You Dance."
Pedal steel is the star of the song.

Unfortunately, it was missing. πŸ™‚

 
Posted : 12/08/2020 4:17 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
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Mitch,

EDIT (erasing initial update) - Thought my Montage had a memory corruption issue. Turns out it has a user corruption issue (I connected the outs to the wrong jacks). That's fixed. I can dig into my Performance and come up with something for you soon.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 12/08/2020 6:47 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

Here's my setup for a tune:

Legend: PBD = Pitch Bend Down, PBU = Pitch Bend Up

PART 6 = lower notes. Range E0-C#3, PBD= -3, PBU= +1
PART 5 = next notes -- Range D3-D#3, PBD= -5, PBU= +2
PART 4 = next notes -- Range E3-F3, PBD= -2, PBU= +2
PART 3 = next notes -- Range F#3-G#3, PBD= -4, PBU= +3
PART 7 = next notes -- Range A3-C#4, PBD= -3, PBU= +1
PART 8 = next notes -- Range D4-G6, PBD=? PBU=? (didn't take a picture). Not so important for what follows.

I may not use all of this in what I explain here - but each range has a purpose I may not cover.

My first chord I play the A natural just below middle C with D natural just above middle C, and F# just above that. Basically a measure of that and a slow bend down (pitch wheel with no pre-bend, bend all the way down). You end up with a chord F#, A, D.

Chord 1 pitch bend mechanics:

F# --(-4) --> D

D --(-5) --> A

A --(-3) --> F#

Second chord I play F# just above middle C, the next A natural up, then the next D natural above that A. Again, about a full bar of that and a slow pitch bend downward (all the way)

Chord 2 pitch bend mechanics:

D --(-5)--> A

A --(-3)--> F#

- note, this "A" is an octave above chord 1's "A" - same downward pitch bend however.
F# --(-4)--> D

Next use of pitch bend is a single line. I play C# (C#4 - which is 1octave+minor2nd above middle C) with a pre-bend "all the way up" on the PB wheel. This is PART 7 (A3-C#4) so PB brings the C# up to D natural. This starts on the and of 4. I bend down to C# (downbeat of next measure) playing 8th notes next of A, E, D, and C# (all descending). I hold the notes to make a reverse pyramid (except I let go of the last D to play the C# at the end). I could have also used the sustain pedal after the prebend resolves back down to C#.

This is showing how the PBU works together with the rest. Most PBU I use in a pre-bend situation.

The next line I play the "B" above middle C (maj 7th above) but start with a pre-bend all the down. I play the note for about a measure and slowly bend up (release the bend). This creates a slide from G# up to B.

G# (played as B with prebend down = -3) --> B

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 12/08/2020 11:10 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
 

I can't wait to try this.
Which guitar patch do you prefer?

Have you seen the pedal steel VST by Impact? Incredible.

Edit: I built your performance. It's very cool. I should have done that for my Rosanna patch, at the end of the solo those bent intervals. Instead I start with one interval then right before the PB is completed I reposition and play the "final" notes.

 
Posted : 13/08/2020 7:43 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

Control aside - I haven't been happy with the core sound of the pedal steel in Montage (MODX). So I've done a lot of looking around and may have seen that VST. I've seen a variety of them and one was indeed very impressive. Pedal steel at least is more convincing than fiddle. For fiddle, I still haven't EQ'd or come up with something that sounds right. It's the sort of thing I probably need to either go VST or buy samples to import. The tone and possibly bow speed isn't cutting it for the only samples that lack vibrato (which I feel I need - no vibrato - for most fiddle work). Pedal steel is not where I want the sound to be - but "guitar" is a little easier to deal with for me using effects and EQ to get in the ballpark.

All of that said - great playing can make a toaster spring sound like a convincing enough pedal steel. So I'm still working on adapting to what I'm given to make the gigs and improve what I get out of it. I don't use the pedal steel Performance - btw. I use 60s clean guitar as my core sound.

Taking a second look now - yes, I've seen impact. There's another one (I'm not sure it's being developed still) that I thought was better. I'm not ready to go VST, however. Still holding on to the swiss-army approach.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 13/08/2020 8:14 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
 

Yeah I don't want to go the VST route either. Not for live performance.

I checked out one of the pop brass VSTs. I don't remember what it was called but it used the key-switches. Sounded amazing but what a learning curve.

 
Posted : 13/08/2020 8:24 pm
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