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Performance & Utility parameters not saved

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 M
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Hi everybody,

I use a Multi/GM Performance as a main base in my studio work. It looks like several parameters can’t be retained by the memory.
Even if I store the Perf, once the MODX’s been turned off, they revert to the previous state. Same happens with some parameters in the “Utility” area.

Performance (Multi/GM):
Receive SW - No matter how I set & store them, they will always revert to their “on” state.
KBD Ctrl - No matter if I store the Perf with this parameter “off”, it will revert to “on” every time I recall a new sound into a Part.
ARP On - Same thing

Utility
Output Main L&R - No matter if I set it to +6 or +12 dB, it will revert to +0 dB every time I shut the unit off.
KBD Ctrl Lock - Even if set to “on” it will always revert to “off”.
Quick Setup - Even if I save my settings for, say “MIDI Rec on DAW”, all my edited parameters will revert to default anytime I switch the unit off.

Lastly, the unit always powers up on the “standalone” setting.

I hope Yamaha will fix that with the next firmware release, cause it's really annoying and time consuming.

PS: Firmware on my MODX is up to date.

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 11:33 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

M,
Nothing needs to fixed. Perhaps it’s one important feature you are missing or we are misunderstanding what you are describing, or you have made a setting that prevents you from storing — or some combination of the above.

The MULTI/GM Performance is among the Presets. You cannot store changes to the Performance. You can use it as a starting point... changing the Performance parameter settings to whatever you require. When you press [STORE] you are offered a chance to give the Performance a name before it is placed in memory (User memory) in the first available User Bank location. It is not clear from your post that this is what you have done. The suggested Name would be the title of the Song. Not only will Receive Switch status, KBD CTRL status, and Arp On/Off be stored but all settings within the Performance Edit area. If the Performance cannot be stored to User that could be something else... read on.

“Quick Setups” are separate Utility mode functions and represent global templates. They are not stored with the Performance. When you tap one of these items, the moment you tap it certain select parameters are changed... for example, when you activate “Quick Setup #1” - “MIDI Rec on DAW” all the critical MIDI settings are made instantly... it is a template that when activated automatically changes MIDI I/O, LOCAL CONTROL, Clock, Sync, etc., etc., etc.
These are settings you would have to make manually each time you would want to record to computer. It does all of them instantaneously.
You can customize Quick Setups 1, 2 and 3... to suit your needs. But please understand these as just a shortcut so you don’t have to make the dozens of settings every time you want Record. The factory suggestions provide one for recording normal MIDI, one for recording MIDI output from the Arpeggiators, and one setup template configures the instrument for Out via the individual Audio Outputs via USB.

This status is is Sent immediately upon you taping Quick Setup 1, 2 or 3. “Standalone” returns all settings to a condition that allows your instrument to behave alone, without connection to computer. Only parameter setting made to Performance Edit parameters will remain if you store them that way... all UTILITY settings are never stored with the Performance. UTILITY mode setting remain as set and are global.

“Standalone” is the home state for the instrument. You can understand it this way... it returns the instrument to a state where when next launched the instrument is ready to be played. Once you understand that Quick Setups 1, 2 and 3 simply are a shortcut to make a series of series of critical settings to help the MODX communicate with an external device... it is completely normal for the instrument to revert to playable status after you power down.

“Standalone” is one Quick Setup that you cannot customize. It simply returns the instrument’s Utility Mode settings to the most normal playable status. The other Quick Setup items can be taken literally they quickly allow you to make all the settings to do specifics tasks with one button push... for example, in order to record MIDI data to a DAW, you would manually have to make the following setting:

MIDI I/O = USB
LOCAL CONTROL = Off
ARP MIDI OUT = Off
MIDI SYNC = MIDI
CLOCK OUT = On
REC/TRANS SEQ CONTROL = On/On
CONTROLLER RESET = Reset
GLOBAL ASSIGN (FS/SK/SCENE) = Arp Sw, 95, 92

These are all made instantaneously by tapping the one box “MIDI Rec on DAW”.... think of it as macro.

If you are saying that you cannot STORE your own USER Performances then you have instructed your instrument Not to.
Go to UTILITY > “Settings” > “Advanced” make sure “Init On Boot” is Set to Off. Retail stores and units at trade shows would use this to ensure that people don’t make changes to the demonstration unit.

Extra Credit:
Mastering MODX: MIDI Settings Explained
Mastering MODX: MIDI Rec On DAW
Mastering MODX: Arp Rec on DAW
Mastering MODX: Audio Record on DAW Part 1

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 12:47 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Bad Mister,

thanks for your quick and detailed reply. I’ll try to be clearer.

I’ll start with your last paragraph: yes I can store my User Performance. When I recall it, I have all the sounds I saved with their relative volume, pan, etc. and of course its name.

I need all the KBD Ctrls set to “off” except for the first one, so I switch them off. I re-save the Perf on itself but if I send a PC to the MODX, the Part has now the KBD Ctrl set to “on” automatically. Same for the ARP On switch.

If I save the Perf with Receive switches for Parts 9 to 16 set to “off”, once the unit is shut down they revert to “on”.

As for the Quick Setup settings, I understood that I could save my own “MIDI Rec on DAW” setting, but it’s not. Everytime I recall this option, all the parameters (audio output, for example) revert to their default state (+6dB reverts to +0dB). Same for the KBD Ctrl Lock. No custom setting is saved.

I always used my workstations or modules with just one multi-timbral Patch, customizing it via control and program changes according to the song played on my DAW.

Since I use other modules in my MIDI chain, I need some Parts/Channels to be disabled on each module, cause I each machine to play different parts. On the Motif Rack, for example, I can set MIDI Channels to “off”

I presently use the MODX on channels 1 to 8, my Motif Rack on channels 11 to 15 and my UltraNova on channel 16. I need to disable the Receive SW on the MODX for Parts 11 to 16, cause if I leave them to “on”, everytime I send a PC, it will activate the respective Part and I’ll end up with 2 sounds playing (i.e. a PC sent on ch 11 will play on my Motif and ALSO on my MODX). That's quite frustrating.

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 1:24 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Even though Multi/GM is a preset - you can save your own copy and call it "My Multi/GM" - so you can easily differentiate it from the preset - and [STORE] that into the User bank. Changes should "stick" (... to "My Mutli/GM" if that's what you named the new Performance)..

What is showing for [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Advanced" and the "Init On Boot" setting?

... EDIT: looks like I'm late to the game and the Init On Boot was already covered.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 6:28 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Jason,

thank you. That's exactly what I did. I have my own User Performance Multi/GM. Nonetheless, all the parameters I listed are never saved.

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 8:37 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

For the templates ( [SHIFT] + [UTILITY] ), what is your exact set of key presses or touchscreen presses? Because some slightly non-intuitive things can happen with this interface. I'm not a fan of how it works overall - but lets work with what it is.

Say you edit some parameters, then come to the [SHIFT] + [UTILITY] screen so you can save your modified parameters into a custom template. You may be tempted to press the "button" of the template you want to replace. Don't do that. If you touch the button on the touchscreen, this recalls the settings of that template. Therefore, doing so will "blow away" the settings you just changed before navigating to this screen. There is no need to press any of these buttons since saving the settings has a screen that allows for you to pick which profile to replace.

I didn't want to change a lot of things in the templates, so I did the following:

1) [SHIFT] + [UTILITY] to get to the right area
2) Touched "Audio Rec On DAW" to recall these settings. This is template #3 which I will replace with an easy-to-back-out change
3) Navigated to menu "Settings" -> "Audio I/O"
4) Touched Output - Main L&R and changed from the default +0dB to +12dB - now I have the "Audio Rec On DAW" template mostly - with only the Main L&R output change
5) [SHIFT] + [UTILITY] to return to the template screen
6) Did not touch any buttons except for "Store Current Settings"
7) Menu pops up to select which template to blow away. I chose Setup No. 3 "Audio Rec On DAW" and touched the "Store" button on the touchscreen
8) Press "Standalone" to recall the standalone template - I navigate to "Settings" -> "Audio I/O" and see Main L&R output is +0dB, as expected
9) [SHIFT] + [UTILITY], press "Audio Rec On DAW" - which should have my new setting - switch back to "Settings" -> "Audio I/O" and see that indeed Main L&R Output is +12dB as I expect.
10) Power cycle with Main L&R output set to +12dB (power off, power back on)
11) Navigate back to [UTILITY] "Settings" -> "Audio I/O" and see that Main L&R output is set to +0dB. Hmm
12) [SHIFT] + [UTILITY], touch "Audio Rec On DAW" - which I expect has my +12dB Main L&R output. It doesn't. Navigating back to the Audio I/O settings shows Main L&R Output as +0dB

Conclusion: "Storing" the template works while power is on, but it looks like my custom template is blown away after a power cycle. This does not seem right.

"Init On Boot" on my instrument is Off.

This seems like an inefficient use of these templates - to not keep the contents through power cycles. If I change Performances - Main L&R Output (dB) is not changed - so this is not something blown away by Performance loads.

I would tend to agree that there's something that could be working better here - with respect to surviving power cycles for "Store"d templates.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 9:17 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I'm not in the studio right now so I don't have the keyboard, but I remember what I did (I did it many times!).

Once I customize my template, I always go to the button on the lower right of the screen, which is for saving the edits. I never go back recalling the "MIDI Rec on DAW", I know it will reload the original setting. The screen then asks me if I want to replace the template and I hit OK. Everything vanishes after a power cycle. Output level, KBD Ctrl Lock, everything. No way.

Same thing happens with the settings in my Multi/GM. There's not a way to permanently save the Receive SW an KBD Ctrl status. Once the unit is powered off, all is lost.

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 9:36 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

We're on the same page with the templates. I see what you see and agree. Waiting on some clarification if our expectations are out of bounds or not.

For KBD Ctrl - what's KBD Ctrl Lock? I'll just ignore the lock part and feedback what I see here.

1) Recalled Multi/GM
2) Saved my own copy [STORE] and named it "J Multi/GM" - by default I see KBD Ctrl turned ON for PART 1 and OFF for all other PARTs.
3) Turned on KBD Ctrl for PARTs 2-8. [STORE] and saved a new copy called "J2 Multi/GM".
Note: I stored the duplicate of Multi/GM ("J Multi/GM" ) so that I could quickly switch between the two Performances and see the keyboard control icons change. I switch between the two by using the data dial with the Performance name selected (at top).
4) Switching between the two Performances (J Multi/GM and J2 Multi/GM) - I saw the Kbd Ctrl settings are saved fine in my Performances. They are surviving at least before a power cycle.
5) I power cycled
6) Recalling "J Multi/GM" and "J2 Multi/GM" - I see each retained the settings. J2 Multi/GM has PARTs 1-8 with Kbd Ctrl turned on and J Multi/GM has only PART 1 Kbd Ctrl turned on. I do not see an issue with at least this sort of Keyboard Control setting.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 9:59 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Yes it's not totally clear to me either, but it should lock the KBD status, which is what I need.

The problem with the Multi Performances is when you send PC from DAW to some channels. KBD Ctrl reverts to "on" no matter the saved status.

More, if you send a PC to a disabled Part, that Part automatically activates, and that's a serious problem if you want to use just 8 Parts. Channels other than 1to8 are used by other modules in my setup, so I definitely need them disabled on the MODX

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 10:18 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

I didn't see "KBD Ctrl Lock" anywhere - so I was asking for a clarification. I just see where one can set the current keyboard control.

Now loading PARTs with PC is (maybe) a different story. Keyboard Control is likely embedded in the PART and so that will override the Performance's setting. If you want to use PC to load something with KBD Ctrl set like you want it - save off a user Performance with keyboard control set how you like it for that PART and use the MSB/LSB+PC for the User Performance you just saved.

I do see some potential weirdness with the templates. However, with Kbd Ctrl - I think you may need to adjust to how it works under all conditions. If you're recalling PARTs from presets which have KBD Ctrl set to ON - and you don't want that - then you should be recalling PARTs from somewhere else instead (like the suggested User version of a Performance with Keyboard Control set how you want it).

This is inefficient - yes. It would be great if you could have more merge options for MSB/LSB+PC - to somehow select concepts of the "Param With Part" type options. It's kind of a can of worms how that might be implemented and how picking a strategy may not work for all.

I'll have to do some legwork to test if the theory that PARTs from a Performance with Kbd Ctrl = OFF will import (MSB/LSB+PC) with Kbd Ctrl Off as a single-part.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 10:30 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

KBD Ctrl Lock is explained on page 209 and 210 of the Reference Manual. It's located on the Effect Switch Page of the Utility Menu (which is quite weird on itself). Its function is exactly what I need, unfortunately, it won't be saved with the template...

Your workaround surely works, but I have to double every sound to my User bank which is very annoying. Not to mention that I can only use "single" parts to be merged into the Multi, otherwise I won't be able to play all the Parts of the merged Perf. Yes, because midi Rx Channels cant' be changed, guys. More weirdness...

As fa as the disabled parts, I've found no solution. Every time I send a PC to a disabled part, it automatically switches on. The only way to avoid it is to switch off all the respective "Receive SWs", which takes us back to the problem #1... This setting can't be saved with the Performance.

 
Posted : 20/03/2019 10:44 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

When you say disabled PART - do you mean an empty slot? By what means is a PART's slot disabled?

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/03/2019 3:48 am
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Jason, yes I meant an empty slot. I just need the first 8 slots to be active, but even if slots 9 to 16 are disabled, if I send a PC on Channels 9 to 16, an active Part pops up in the slot.

The only way to avoid it is to switch off all the respective "Receive SWs", which takes us back to the problem #1... This setting can't be saved with the Performance.

 
Posted : 21/03/2019 8:29 am
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

For 9-16, no matter if they started empty or not - I would not think KBD Ctrl would be switched on ever for these PARTs. I had thought KBD Ctrl was forced OFF for these.

... but if you're having issues coming up with a solution where you recall PARTs into an existing Performance with empty slots - rather than dealing with receive switches - it seems you can start with a Performance with no empty slots. There would be several ways you could prevent these place-holder slots from consuming any polyphony. If master ARP was ON - then you could PART ARP these and Mute 4/4. Or if your Performance was all samples - you can use FM-X placeholders with levels set at 0. Or set velocity to 127-127 with levels set to 0 and you would hardly trigger 127. Or ... just a ton of options here for place holders.

Kludge? Yes, but trying to get to something that works for you.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/03/2019 5:45 pm
 M
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Jason, thanks for your help.

My problem is: I have the MODX as a part of a MIDI chain, if I set the volume to zero for let's say, channel 11 (not used by the MODX), the volume of the module set on ch 11 won't sound. So the only thing I can do is to disable the PC Receive Switch on my user Multi/GM. This setting can't be saved.

The problem with the KBD Ctrl is less important, but there's no solution but to set KBD Ctrl Lock to "on". This cant be saved either.

All these problems should be fixed maybe with a new firmware release. I don't see other way.

 
Posted : 21/03/2019 7:56 pm
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