One of the things which led me to upgrade from the MX61 was that you have the parts visually in front of you and can therefore mix / remix as you are playing live to suit the room or PA. This appears to be not as easy as I thought. Not sure if it's the PA setup, but typically I can hear the bass great but the synth/keys are often drowned out.

Does anyone have any tips on this? I.e. setting up performance mixes (with bass parts) that translate from the home studio to a band/live situation?

Hi Dave, Thanks for the question.

The idea situation would be to have a separate output and sound system for the Bass Part(s) — this is accomplishable on the top-of-the-line MONTAGE using the Assignable L/R Outputs. In a live stage scenario these are often used to separate a particular type of instrument... for example, you might setup your Performances so the your Electric Guitar emulation Parts are always routed to the Assign L/R which you connect to an actual guitar amp, or often when using an actual Leslie or external Rotary Speaker Simulator, you might route all of your B3 sounds to Assign L/R. You could use this trick to send your left hand Bass Parts to Assign L/R connected to a separate Bass amplification system.

On the MODX, your options include programming the Bass Parts using the 5-bands of EQ available to each Part (or assign an EQ as an Insertion). These are fairly obvious solutions — but what happens when you are delivering your sound to the house sound system, your ability to hear Bass is not as negatively impacted by *where* you are located. If you are listening to the house system along with the audience, typically you do not have a “good seat“ - you are off-axis to the spot where the sound system is delivering good balanced audio.

Here’s what that means... Bass spreads out. You do not have to be in front of the speakers to hear the Lows. You do have to be in front of the speakers to hear the Mids and Highs. In fact, you almost have to be able to see the tweeters to hear the Highs properly. In other words, you know where you need to position yourself in order to properly hear music. No one has to tell you — you KNOW it intuitively. If you are looking at the back or the sides of the speakers you are playing through, you should NOT be making EQ’ing decisions (at all)!

What you may not have noticed is the different frequency ranges fall apart differently depending on direction and distance. But it’s physics and can be explained. Bass spreads out, it is Omni-directional. And it takes several feet in the air to complete a cycle...so you experience more bass as you move farther away (up to a point). The low frequencies can have Wavelengths if over 50 feet... so your perception of bass typically increases as you back up from the source. (If you’re 10 feet from the speaker producing the low frequency, the low end will seem louder at 50 or 100 feet. Bass will not be blocked by objects (like people) being in the way... Mids and even more Highs are definitely impacted by objects in the way.

If you are not in the field of the speaker, and you hear the lows better than the mids and highs, you may well be in the wrong place to properly listen to that speaker. The sound maybe balanced for someone sitting out front, but wrong for you where you are located. You need to fix this.

You can move the speakers so that they are slightly behind you... if you can only see the side or back of a speaker cabinet, then you are not in a position to correctly listen to that speaker. And as a musician, I firmly believe the most important set of ears in the room are those belonging to the person playing the instrument. If you can’t hear yourself — you cannot perform. If the surgeon cannot see, the operation is bound to fail, forget the audience who cannot see, if the surgeon can’t see the patient dies! Be the surgeon.

Job #1 is setup a situation where not only can you hear proper balance — but where you are hearing yourself (and everyone else in the band) so that you’re inspired to play. That should be your goal. The only thing worse than not being able to hear yourself is not being able to hear yourself while performing.

EXTRA CREDIT:
Among the other solutions available, you can use the Super Knob to create a balance between your bass (left hand) Parts and those that are mid/high (right hand) Parts. You could have several different degrees of balance between the left and right hand Parts... which you could change with an FC7 Pedal set to “Super Knob” and/or you can store these different balances on the Scene buttons.

Scenes can not only memorize which Parts are active, but the Volume setting. Scenes can be recalled, instantaneously... where Super Knob assignment would allow for dynamic smooth changes, when necessary.

You might program some of the COMMON Assign Knobs to be parameters of the Master EQ... this way you can reach up and change them in real time, while the Super Knob moves the Volumes using other COMMON Assign Knobs. This means you can have separate, direct, control over the EQ while still raising and/or lowering Volume with knobs linked to the SuperKnob position.

But as discussed, making EQ decisions while not sitting in an optimum location is pointless. You cannot make critical decisions (like EQ) when you are not in the optimum location to hear. By the time you get it right for your ‘bad’ seat, it sounds terrible in the good seats! Be careful!

Thanks for the support, Bad Mister,

Job #1 is setup a situation where not only can you hear proper balance — but where you are hearing yourself (and everyone else in the band) so that you’re inspired to play. That should be your goal. The only thing worse than not being able to hear yourself is not being able to hear yourself while performing.

Very true and unfortunately this has been my experience quite a lot (had quite a few dead patients!). Also depressing given the amount of time I spend finding the right sounds and setting up performances 🙁 . I love the sounds of the MODX so much and want to hear them! I am always asking people to turn down, but it's a bit hard for drummers and although (guitarist) guitar is not bass and does not have the bass acoustic properties as you describe above, the guitar(s) always seems to be cutting though any mix and having no trouble being heard (going through their own amp rather than the PA as my keyboard.)

From what I understand, the speakers also need to be at my ear level (height) in order for me to hear the mids and highs? Or the floor mounted angled foldback should be sufficient?

From what I can remember of the last gig, the PA man probably controlled my output so that the bass was adequate at his ideal position, however that meant that at my position I could not here my upper parts. This may be hard to remedy without a separate bass output (unless you are in a top pro setting with in-ears and all the other top level audio engineering).

I am wondering if there are any "smart" mixers available now which can take the USB audio output of the MODX, which has 10 digital audio outputs and take off the bass channel as a separate "assignable" to achieve the same effect as the separate assignable outputs available in the Montage?

In ear monitors do a pretty good job of isolating the stage volume from the mix you get. You could take the monitor feed you're given and mix that with your keyboard using a small mixer (even if your keyboard is already a part of the monitor feed) - so you can adjust the relative level of your keyboard vs. everything else without affecting the house mix. Because the mixer would be only for your ears. And you could use EQ on the mixer to boost or cut different frequencies.

For me, the "problem" is usually isolating the rest of the band away from my own instrument - and this would go longer than EQ'ing.

Plus in-ear would always place your ears in the right proximity to the mid/highs. At least, this (proximity) would never change. Not all IEMs are created equal - but I haven't had major issues with mid-grade non-custom monitors.

IEMs are not for everyone and sometimes can take some adjustment - but I end up with much more control with my mix using IEMs. If I want more ambient sounds - I can pop out one side.

Whichever solution you choose, it is the responsibility of the players to take care of this situation. Every band decides to move forward or get stuck by this particular issue. Every band deals with it. When you can hear yourself and hear your band members in the right portions, you can endeavor to become a better band. Not only do you sound better when this is addressed, you have more fun.

In ear monitors are certainly an option. But are a huge step. If you have a sound person (the first step in this process) you trust that they are controlling what the band sounds like to the majority of the audience (sitting in the ‘good seats’ ) meanwhile, who is responsible, in your stage setup, for the ‘band’s monitor mix? In most band situation, this falls on no one in particular. But is a vital part of sounding good. If you trust your sound person, then you can work with them to deliver you a mix to your monitor system that works for the band.

One final tip... the engineers who do get good grades from musicians KNOW, that the good monitor mix is a result of good information from the participants. Nothing is more important than this information gathering. If they are patient enough to listen to the complaints coming from the stage, they probably can make it sound good to that musician, but they cannot possibly know for sure what you are hearing and what makes you comfortable to play in the current room situation versus what the front-of-house sounds like. In other words, how loud you like to hear yourself in context of the other members is YOUR personal preference which would make No Sense to any one else except YOU, sitting *where* you are sitting.

It’s like hearing your own voice when speaking at the dinner table with others, you hear yourself both internally, inside your head, and externally, via your ears... you personally adjust your volume based on your own observations — derived from what you hear and by what you see as the reactions of others. It is a complex algorithm of contributing factors... same is true in “musical conversations”. You need to hear yourself and you need what you are playing to influence others in your band, as much as you need to hear them to influence what you play. When your band gets this right, you never look back... you want it like that always. Worth the effort.

Bands that can do this, move ahead, those that cannot, struggle to move ahead... anyway that’s been my experience with sound on stage.

Thanks Jason and BM for the sound in both meaning s of the word, advice.

You have encouraged me and given me some great tips in how to approach this with my band and sound engineers, and reassured me that I'm not being a diva or too much of a perfectionist in wanting to be heard and for the band's sound to improve.

Is suggesting a small powered monitor for stage use too simplistic? At least you will hear yourself clearer and have control over it. Obviously it doesn’t help with the out front mix.

I’m a bass player in a covers band and have just got a MODX, although I’m thinking of switching full time and getting a bass player in, but our current keys player used to complain all the time they he couldn’t hear himself. We told him to get a monitor as the out front sound was fine. Once he did he has been much happier and we can leave the out front sound to those out front.
I’m not sure if it can be done on the MODX, or if its too drastic, but can you program bass to come out of only the left, and the chords to the right, then mix them before sending to the PA (or send two feeds)?

As for bass/chords balance. Have you considered putting a few looping bars in to the pattern sequencer and let it play while you go out front at sound check. At leat you would get an idea of the balance and can make adjustments based on this. Just an idea.

I’m not sure if it can be done on the MODX, or if its too drastic, but can you program bass to come out of only the left, and the chords to the right, then mix them before sending to the PA (or send two feeds)?

Not recommended. Many of your System and Insertion Effects are stereo, so your sound will suffer unnecessarily. (Moving up to the MONTAGE will give separate Assignable Outputs) but it is no worth it on the MODX to pan bass to one side and everything else to the other... it will sound awful. Not at all like you would want. Stereo sounds will start to have phase problems — not recommended.

When you listen to the MODX under optimum conditions, you can feel the depth and quality built-into the engine. You want to create a situation where you are at or as close as possible to that optimum. It’s only YOUR MUSIC! Don’t skimp on your sound.

I always tell musicians to think as if price was no object (that way you know where you stand when you decide to settle on whatever you decide) after all it is not always possible to have the best but knowing where that is ... is somehow important.

A pair of powered monitors that can be angled up toward the keyboardist’s position, is ideal. Usually 10” or 12” powered cabinets are shaped so they can also be used as floor monitors, pointing directly at your ears while you're seated at the keyboard...

I always have my stage monitors setup as a stereo rig... I learned long ago, sound (music, in particular) benefits immeasurably when heard in stereo. It sounds better, feels better, and takes things to that next level. Hearing is the first level... enjoying what you’re hearing is that next level.

Don’t want to sound preachy here, but good sound is it’s own reward.