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Sample Rate mismatch

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Honzinus78
Posts: 70
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hi,

I am aware that MODX supports 44.1 Khz sample rate only. I need to make some songs in 48 Khz.

I use Cubase. When I work via MODX USB driver and record in 48 Khz, everything is ok. The problem is when I switch back to Focusrite Scarlett or UAD audio driver, the sound is pitched higher.
What is the best way to deal with sample rate mismatch? I can record MODX tracks in 44.1 Khz and convert them to 48 Khz. Is there a better way? Please note that live instruments and vocals are also recorded in 48 Khz. It's kinda confusing:p

Thanks

Honzinus

 
Posted : 16/09/2022 12:50 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

If you want to record MODX at a different sampling rate than it natively supplies, consider using analog.

Connect MODX's Main L/R outputs with the shortest highest quality cables to the best ADC you can which provides the sampling rate you're targeting. If you don't want MODX "pre mixed" (meaning you would have preferred to have more than 2 - left and right - audio channels) then you can record in multiple passes using two channels at a time. This will retain your ability to adjust the mix of different Parts. Of course if you have a multi-Part instrument then you may want to take say a 4 Part piano and still only render it to 2 channels. This would be one pass.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 16/09/2022 8:10 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

Without specific experience, I'll add my 2cents....

If you are sending Digital (not audio) signals to your DAW, then you need to inform the DAW of the Format of the signal... in this case 24 Bit, 44.1kHz.

Setting the DAW to something else is just "misinforming" the DAW. So, just set it to 44.1Khz... because that's what it is.

Now if you are recording an Analogue Audio Signal, from a Microphone for example, that's when you decide which sampling Rate and Bit depth to use. You are telling the DAW to convert the Analogue to Digital, at the Rate you specify. The higher, the better, but you also introduce lag, and put more pressure on the processor. 44.1/24 is generally a happy compromise.

If you "play" those DAW recordings out to Speakers/Monitors (Digital to Analogue) the recording will sound Normal (because all parts of the system know it was a 44.1/24 sample). If you've "fooled" the system into believing it was a 48kHz sample... that's where you run into issues.

Question is.... what is so important about 48kHz vs 44.1kHz? Benefits would be minimal.

I would suggest keeping it simple and just go with everything at 44.1kHz.... it is practically a "Standard".

 
Posted : 17/09/2022 1:43 am
Honzinus78
Posts: 70
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks a lot, guys. The bottom line is that most of audio tracks used in videos or movies are mastered at 48 Khz. I don't see the point and I can't tell the difference..
I'd made some short background audio track for a video and I've been asked to provide 48 Khz version.
I am trying to find out what works best for me.. 🙂

 
Posted : 18/09/2022 9:16 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

My previous experience was recording guitar.

I went into the DAW as Digital, using SPDIF (using USB cable) from either my Line6 POD or Focusrite. I used 24bit 44.1kHz since it was recommended. I used Reaper DAW.

When it comes to Mastering, you are effectively recording all recorded tracks onto a single (Mono or Stereo) Master track (IIRC it was called bounce down). That is where you specify the output file format... and thus also the bit depth and sampling rate for compressed digital file formats... typically what the end user wants. Although I'm not familiar with it, it sounds like the film company is requesting an output (mastered) "48kHz" format.

Your DAW should be able to do all the necessary conversion for you at the final "Mastering" stage. So... it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what the input (original) recorded format was.

 
Posted : 18/09/2022 12:42 pm
Honzinus78
Posts: 70
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/faq.html

"Does MODX have a Digital Output?
MODX has a digital output using USB Audio. This allows you to record digitally to any DAW computing device and *iOS device. MODX can send 16 Stereo channels to a DAW and receive three Stereo channels from a DAW at 44.1kHz. MODX can work at higher sampling rates with a reduction in channels. See the Audio Interface section below for more details."

I still can figure out how to do it 🙁

 
Posted : 12/10/2022 10:28 am
Posts: 1715
Noble Member
 

[quotePost id=118704] https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/faq.html

"Does MODX have a Digital Output?
MODX has a digital output using USB Audio. This allows you to record digitally to any DAW computing device and *iOS device. MODX can send 16 Stereo channels to a DAW and receive three Stereo channels from a DAW at 44.1kHz. MODX can work at higher sampling rates with a reduction in channels. See the Audio Interface section below for more details."

I still can figure out how to do it 🙁
[/quotePost]

I dunno where you're getting that quote from, but it's wrong.

5 Channels of Stereo Out at 44.1kHz is the MODX. There is no option to do less channels at a higher sampling rate.

16 Channels out is the Montage. Montage has a better DAC, so can probably do a limited number of higher sampling rate channels.

--- as Antony said.... CHEAT!

Do your recording at 44.1kHz and then, when happy with all your post processing, export/render as 48kHz. Nobody will quibble with this, and your DAW will have no trouble doing this.

Sidenote... just about all serious vector illustration and design is NOT done in Adobe Illustrator, because it sucks. But every printer wants Adobe files, every job wanting deliverables requires AI files etc. So folks just convert to AI when they're done, regardless of the app they made it in.

 
Posted : 12/10/2022 12:52 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

What is the best way to deal with sample rate mismatch? I can record MODX tracks in 44.1 Khz and convert them to 48 Khz.

You can/should do this in your DAW. You should not work through a “mismatch” — a “mismatch” must be remedied. A DAW like Cubase can easily convert your 44.1kHz Waves to 48kHz and write those to your Project.

Workflows
_ If you are using the MODX for simultaneous multiple audio tracking: Record via USB @ 44.1kHz. Once you’ve completed MODX tracking convert each of your Audio Tracks to 48kHz using Cubase (or your favorite DAW); then use an appropriate (48kHz capable) audio interface to add additional Audio to the DAW and to complete the session.

_ If you are not using the MODX as a multi-track audio source, simply connect your MODX via Main L/R analog out to a 48kHz Audio Interface from the start of the session. You also can just record individual Tracks, as audio, to your DAW through a 48kHz audio interface.

Just FYI: It is the MONTAGE that gives higher sample rates with a lower USB OUT count (not the MODX). It has 32 USB (16 Stereo) Outputs (Main L/R plus USB1-30) @ 44.1kHz
At the clock rates of 44.1/48/96/192kHz: MONTAGE can send 4 Stereo channel to DAW

Extra Credit:
This is not a quality difference you are going to hear. Projects can be done at a particular sample rate… your task is to deliver the audio to the finished project at the appropriate (matching) sample rate. Pro DAWs are designed to do sample rate conversion (no big deal). Just follow rules of audio — in this case “match” your audio. Top of the line versions of software can even juggle multiple sample rates simultaneously, but you tax your CPU (mileage varies).

You will notice that you receive a warning when there is a sample mismatch. You will notice a change in pitch when playing back audio from one sample rate at another… it’s audio like playing a record too fast or to slow on a turntable it will effect the pitch of the audio.

Check out YouTube Club Cubase… they meet live 2 times per week… you can get all the details on what’s available as far as sample rate conversion is concerned in your particular version of Cubase.

 
Posted : 12/10/2022 4:25 pm
Honzinus78
Posts: 70
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you very much for explanation!

The Yamaha FAQ site is also wrong claiming that MODX output is balanced. I believe it isn't balanced. :p

 
Posted : 12/10/2022 7:04 pm
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