A Library can be created from your entire User bank. So the trick is getting your User Bank to reflect what you want to see in your Library. Then create a library ([UTILITY], Content->Save and select Library). You'll need a recognized USB flash stick in the TO DEVICE port so you can save this. Once created, you can use Content->Load to place the newly created X8L file (Library file) into a Library slot. And last you can either initialize your User Bank only (clear it out) or restore a backup of your User Bank before you started this process.

The first step of the process usually entails saving up your user bank so you don't lose anything. Then initialize (erase) your User bank. Then Library Import your "keepers" into the User bank from the Library. The user bank you created to begin with can be used to later restore your original User bank contents.

Jason,

I believe I understand your procedure there. To summarize, correct me if I am wrong:
I need to create a full backup of my User, and then erase the User (which I spent months creating and have been backing up) in order to empty it just to be able to import only the 20 Library Performances into it, so that I can then create a combined Library file onto a flash drive, to load in later as a new Library, correct?

I guess I am a bit disappointed that I have to go though this process just to make a small combined Library file. Not sure I am ready to delete my User as I have only owned the instrument for a few months. I guess this is why people use Melas for this type of thing.

I think my best bet in this case is to just load in the 5 Libraries one at a time (so I don't use up all my Library slots) and use Library Import to save the specific Performances (about 20 in total) I want into User, without going through the process of erasing the User bank.

thanks!

Rich

Yes.

Note that there's something that IS a "full backup" (and it calls the files it creates backup files - X8A extension). This operation not only saves your user bank but also saves off your Libraries and settings and literally everything. For this, you need only save off your user bank which would take relatively less time particularly if you have no custom user samples (Waveforms).

The reason why you would typically initialize your User bank is that you would not want to save your current user bank into the Library you're creating. Library Import is a merge operation that doesn't touch your current User Bank. If you do not initialize your User bank then all of those Performances would be saved to a Library along with your imported Performances.

I'm not thrilled with the system either. I have often criticized the "file system" as one of the weakest areas of Yamaha synthesizers for ages.

If you don't mind all of your User Performances ending up in the Library slot (and then not being able to be edited because you cannot edit Library Performances) then there is no need to either save or initialize your User Bank. It will all end up in the Library slot. At the end you would initialize your User Bank only. If not your new Library slot and User Banks will have the same Performances and possibly take up 2x Waveform memory.

The instructions I have wouldn't delete your user since you save it off first to restore in the last step.

Re-summary:

1) Save User bank (X8U file)
2) If Library you want to extract Performances from is already loaded then skip this - else load your starting Library with more Performances than you want to keep
3) Initialize your User bank only so these Performances are not saved into your Library file (everything in the User bank is placed in a Library save file -- not only your Library Imports)
4) Library Import your desired Performances into the User bank (which starts as clean from step 3)
5) Save your Library file
6) Delete (erase) your original Library that has the extra Performances you don't want to keep
7) Load your saved Library file in step 5 which will now have only your keepers
8) Load your saved User Bank file (from step 1) which will remove the duplicate material and restore your original User Bank

With Melas tools ...

The Melas tools could slightly improve this reducing one or two steps in here. It's not perfect. But for this - you would start with a Library file you want to prune down and trim out the data you don't want on the computer to create a new Library instead of doing this on the keyboard. That's fast and straight forward. Then you load the resulting Library straight to your keyboard without having to do cleanup unless you already have the original larger Library installed. Then you'd still need to erase this original Library. None of your User Bank would be involved, however.

I don't use Melas tools other than the demo version to inspect data (demo doesn't save - so the full version would be required for the above "with melas tools ..." ).

I'm not sure if this helps and also it does use Melas Tools but might be useful for other people as well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhBDKxvu5Qg

Just a few comments.

I have Adrian Charras' free piano peformance X7L files and would simply like to combine them together in one library. These are not a huge amount of Performances, probably just about 20 or so.

The thing about being new to any system, product or synthesizer is you often jump into the deep end of the pool without even knowing that it is the deep end of the pool (and you may not even need to be there yet). However, as you gain the experience and more understanding of how the system works, where it can be more like wading out from the shallow end - the shock of the depth is less and less intimidating because you have a clearer understanding of WHY it works like it does. Why all the complicated IMPORT routing? It cannot be understood out of context.

From your initial comment above it is clear that you are under the impression that the number of Performances ("probably just about 20 or so") has some significance in what you are attempting to do. The fact is, whether you are combining just 1 or 20 or 600 Performances into one library, the complexity of routine would require using the same steps.

The IMPORT function allows the system to sort out what is necessary for the *selected* Performance to sound properly (this means if there are AWM2 sampled audio (Waveforms/Samples) and/or User Arpeggios associated with a particular Performance, the IMPORT routine will sort out and include that data. Also if several of the Performances use the same sampled audio data and/or the same User Arpeggios, the system is clever enough to only IMPORT the data once.

As a newbie you may not be aware that each Bank could contain as many as 2048 Waveforms... which can be tasked with controlling more than 8,000 individual pieces of audio data (trust me, letting the IMPORT routine handle the 'heavy-lifting' is going to be useful... you would not want to manually have to repoint and retarget every single piece of audio that might be in your selected data!)

Lets say your 20 or so, Performances all use the same sampled piano Waveform data... if you were to Load each Performance, one at a time, the audio data would be duplicated 20 times, unnecessarily using up precious memory - it would attempt to ensure that everything necessary to make the requested Performance sound properly is loaded and is made accessible (a totally inefficient method) To avoid this duplication of data, the LIBRARY IMPORT function will review those items you have *marked* for inclusion, and it will sort out the data to avoid memory hogging duplication of data!!!

Therefore, even though you don't fully understand what it is doing, quite yet, it will recognize that the 20 Performances use the same Waveform data, and will load just one copy of that Waveform data, and it will automatically repoint all the Waveforms and all the sampled audio that those Waveforms manage, to the correct data.

You can understand this by recognizing that all of the Factory Acoustic Piano Performances that have "CFX" in the name - are pointing to the same Waveform data (efficient). You can make scores and scores of Performances using any Waveform.

I am not connecting the MODX+ to my Mac, so I would like to do this only on the MODX without the John Melas editor.

You may not have to physically 'connect' the MODX+ to your Mac in order to manipulate your data. The Editor reads the data from a USB File created on your MODX+. The Melas Editor makes use of your computer's humungous RAM to house all of the AWM2 Sample/Waveform data -- that huge RAM area makes it much easier to move things around. See the video recommended in the post above - you literally, drag and drop the Performance Name from the USB File data and place it in your new template - you are actually building a Bank much the same as you would in the MODX+ hardware - except you are doing it with your computer (for ease and speed).

I highly recommend learning the Library Import function on the MODX+, it will make you appreciate how much quicker and easier it is with the software, and your understanding of what it is doing and why it is doing it may become a bit clearer.

You can manipulate the data by opening a MODX+ USB file on your computer using the Editor... what the Editor allows you to do is work "offline", so to speak, reassemble the data as you desire -- then you can create a MODX+ Library File (.X8L) that you write to a USB stick to be LOADED to your MODX+

Also... It is probably an important thing to understand exactly WHEN, as a brand new user with 20 brand new Performances, exactly WHEN it is necessary for you to "combine them together in one Library".

In other words, there are 2,227 Factory Performances, as many as 640 User Performances at any one time, and room for 5,120 Library Performances (spread equally between 8 Library locations; 640 x 8). It is the User Bank data that is "saved as..." a Library File -- all Libraries start out as User Banks.

Until you really begin to approach accumulating lots of Performance data from different sources (at least approaching 8 Libraries) it may not be necessary to combine your Performance into one Library, at all. There maybe no real advantage to do so if all you have is 20 Performance.

Reason: each of the potential 7,987 Performances has its own locator and can be recalled for PLAY or for a LIVE SET from wherever it is stored. There maybe no real reason for you to start assembling/combining your data into one LIBRARY quite yet.

To summarize, correct me if I am wrong:
I need to create a full backup of my User, and then erase the User (which I spent months creating and have been backing up) in order to empty it just to be able to import only the 20 Library Performances into it, so that I can then create a combined Library file onto a flash drive, to load in later as a new Library, correct?

Another point arises here: There is a newbie fear of losing their months worth of creations if you have to empty the USER Bank. So they never clear the User Bank (out of fear, they might lose something) - don't live like that!

One of the first things you want to grasp as a concept is that: the USER Bank is like your work area.

Let's use a computer and word processing program, as an example. When you Open a new blank document and begin to write into it, you may not complete your entire book in one sitting. What this system invites you to do is to SAVE a file. This way when you want to work on your book again, you can reopen the file (this is why you give it a name) and continue to add new data to that file... then SAVE again, by OVERWRITING the file, updating it with you new additions. This system allows you to be working on several different books simultaneously.

In the MODX+ USER Bank you are working on your book (your 'book' can have a maximum of 640 Performances)... but like in the computer/word processor system... it is assumed you will probably not complete your book in one sitting... and this system invites you to SAVE a USER File (.X8U). This way when you are ready to work on your 'book' again, you can reopen (Load back) the USER File (this is why you give it a name), you can then continue to add new data to that file... then SAVE again, by OVERWRITING the file, updating it with your new additions. This system, also, allows you to be working on several different books (Banks) simultaneously.

In neither case does the data have to remain in your device's RAM (working area). You are free to open other documents (other User Files) and play/work on them, without worrying that your months worth of work is somehow jeopardized, it is NOT.

Therefore, thinking you must keep your months worth of programming in your USER Bank at all times is like thinking you need to keep the word processor open to your document at all times... truth is, YOU DON'T have to -- in fact, you wouldn't even dream of it on your computer. You have to become as confident that when you SAVE your data to your USER File (.X8U) you have secured your User Bank and your work. (If you are still a bit nervous - keep copies on separate drives and drag a copy into a folder on your computer).

If you have your file, you no longer need to concern yourself with the USER Bank contents (they are safe in your USER File)...

Your USER BANK is now free to be cleared and is now free for you to work on something completely different.

Suggestion: Naming is very important - take your time and NAME your stuff. Develop your own system, but NAME your stuff.
When you create a Performance, take the time to assign it a MAIN and SUB Category (this is determined by settings you make for PART 1). If you do this, then finding your program for recall (no matter what Library or location it happens to be in) is child's play using the [CATEGORY] Search function. Please see this short/informative video:
Category Search and Favorites

Final Thought:
Getting to know what is currently in your MODX+ is important.
Press [UTILITY] > touch "Contents" > touch "Data Utility"
Here you can review and manage what data is currently available to you...
Here you will see the following 8 FOLDERS that contain custom data that you have made or loaded to the MODX+.

Arp = if you have created any User Arps they will appear in this folder (256)
*Library = currently installed Libraries will appear in this folder (8)
Live Set = current User Live Set Banks (8 each with 256 slots)
Motion Seq = current User Motion Sequences (256)
*Pattern = 128 Patterns each with 8 Scenes - each Scene is a .mid file (remains in internal memory until manually removed)
Performance = current User Performances (640)
*Song = 128 Songs - each Song is a .mid file (remains in internal memory until manually removed)
Waveform = current User Waveform/Sample data (2048 Waveforms)

*When you LOAD a USER Bank File (.X8U), all but the Library, Pattern and Song Folders are overwritten and replaced by the data in the newly loaded User File.

Library data, Pattern data, and Song data are not saved to the USER File (.X8U) -- they are, however, included in the BACKUP File (.X8A). Backup file, literally, backs up the entire instrument.

A Library is technically Read Only Memory and must be directly DELETED. It cannot be overwritten by a USER or LIBRARY File.
Pattern Scenes and Songs remain in their own separate area - and remain in internal memory until directly DELETED.

When you finally complete your first User Bank (640 Performances)... you would SAVE AS a LIBRARY FILE - one of the differences between a USER and LIBRARY file is the LIBRARY File includes the important instructions that tell the system to "burn the data to ROM"... it also redirects the data to special memory that, like the Factory Preset data, will always be accessible to you when you power the instrument on.

It is like you published your Book (ROM Read Only Memory)... If you later want to make a change to the Book (Library) you basically have to IMPORT it to RAM, make your changes, and then replace the previously published version. You are working in INK, no eraser. When you have published your Book, you have created the 1st Edition... any changes that you want to make to a LIBRARY means you must create an entirely NEW EDITION... withdrawing the 1st Edition completely (by DELETING it).

Think of USER Bank as your work area. RAM - this is where you assemble the data that will become a LIBRARY.
Think of the LIBRARY Bank as a finished (published) version - now as much apart of the MODX+ as the Factory ROM.
Rewriting a LIBRARY is literally rewriting your book.

Thank you Jason and Bad Mister for your responses. I treat all of your writings as supplemental manuals which will be very helpful not only for me but for other users here as well.

Jason, I understand your comments for the most part.

Bad Mister, I need a little time to digest all of that information you provided.

Rich

Bad Mister, I need a little time to digest all of that information you provided.

Sorry, for the length... but hopefully, you can refer back to it and it will help you as you go along. Remember with all the locations you have available and the way the system allows you to recall data, you may not even need to combine data, quite yet.
Sure you could... but remember: diving in the deep end and discovering its deep should not really be a surprise. Take your time - have fun!

Does the Library you plan to combine contain custom Waveform data and/or custom Arpeggio data?

I'm not sure what pianos you're trying to combine - but from that author I see the following:

NRD Hybrid Piano.X7L - 50.73MB (1 Performance)
NRD Bright Grand.X7L - 268.67MB (1 Performance)
Broken CP80.X7L - 69.33MB (8 Performances)

You can see there is no relationship between number of Performances and the amount of Waveform (sample) memory needed. Some take a lot of space, some not so much, and some (not in above) would use no Waveform memory even when having hundreds of Performances.

I don't see that the author lists the space required for his free offerings. The above was taken from opening the X7L files in the Melas tools (Demo).

... and this list happens to be what's still lying around my hard drive. There are more - I likely archived somewhere else.

Jason,

I chose the below library sets to download from Adrian Charras, he has links in his YouTube video descriptions. They just give me some extra pianos. It's not clear to me if these library files contain waveforms or not. Not sure if you can tell based on the sizes below. I would say there are about 8 Performances in each file. The pianos are nice but still they are not that different from the preset CFX's in my opinion. Just wanted to see about combining these into one library. But it's not an urgent task and I certainly have a whole host of other questions I could post later on 🙂

CP88 C7 (327 MB)
KURZWEIL FORTE PIANO (203 MB)
NORD BRIGHT GRAND (281 MB)
NORD GRAND IMPERIAL (200 MB)
WORSHIP AMBIENT (93 MB)

Rich

Bad Mister,

Yes, I will definitely refer back to your earlier comments when I am ready to combine libraries. With the holidays I haven't read through it in detail but already have it saved offline, so thanks for all that info.

You may be correct, I may not need to combine any library files just yet. You can see the list of library sets and sizes above in my response to Jason. They are not arpeggio focused performances but not sure if they have any custom ones programmed in. I assume I can look in the Arp menu to see if there are any custom arp names. I am not sure how to verify if any performance contains custom external waveforms other than to go into the Element and see if the waveform name seems to be external or not.

Rich

As long as there are no other significantly large libraries or user Waveforms (>600MB) installed, then all of those fit fine. The sum is around 1.1GB and your instrument supports 1.75GB of Waveform (sample) storage.

Reducing down any one of those pianos to a smaller set of Performances is unlikely to make any impact on the Waveform space requirements (speculation).

[quotePost id=119904]

It's not clear to me if these library files contain waveforms or not

Have you tried editing a part, selecting an arpeggio/arp and then change the bank in Category Search change 'Bank/Favorite' to a library to see if it lists anything?[/quotePost]

I looked, there appears to be no arps listed at least in one of the libraries I have loaded in.

Usually I do this. I install two libs and export it to user.
Next I export user to file X8U.
The X8U must be renamed to X8L then to be installed like Library.
Maybe I dont know something but I would like to have a mod install direct from user mem to library memory. (?)

Seems like you're doing an extra step - renaming the file. You can save to a library (X8L) directly and then install it. [UTILITY] Contents->Store/Save has the option to save a Library or User file. It's your choice. Touch "content type" to change the type of file saved.