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Storing linked Pattern/Performance/Song

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I am trying to create a Performance with multiple Scenes, and each Scene uses a different pattern. After initially creating the Performance, with the links to each separately named Pattern appearing, then saving and recalling the Performance later, I noticed the Patterns were gone. I researched this on the forum and found Bad Mister's explanation that Patterns call on Performances, so I followed the instructions on that post to link the Patterns/Scenes again, then stored as a Song in Live Sets from the Play/Rec->Midi screen. When I access that Song from the Live Sets, the Performance now shows the correct linked Pattern included, but the Pattern doesn't actually play in the Scene it is linked to unless I actually select the Play/Rec->Pattern and press the Play button on the panel. I also tried to add Key On Start, but that didn't work either (and Key On Start is how I would ultimately like to trigger the new Pattern as each Scene changes instead of hitting the Play button, but I first need to solve the storing/linking problem first).

 
Posted : 05/12/2020 5:32 pm
 rudy
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I’m not sure if I understand why you would want to use different Patterns: “… and each Scene uses a different pattern”. ?

In Pattern Record Mode you can record 8 different Scenes inside one Pattern … no need to switch Pattern. The Scene recording uses the sound settings of the Performance Scene and with this sound you can record part of a song, like intro, verse, chorus, 'outtro' into the Pattern > Scenes.

If you saved the Pattern, linked to the Performance, you're fine. There’s no need to save it as a Song, unless maybe you Chained Scenes to arrange a complete song and you like to playback this song.

You can create a shortcut to the Pattern on a Live Set screen. When tapped it opens the Performance + Pattern combination. The recorded Scenes can now be played back. You can have set (and saved) 'Start on Key’ to start playback with the keyboard, else you can use the PLAY button.

...

 
Posted : 06/12/2020 1:36 pm
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In my performance - Scene 1 uses a couple different parts, and no patterns are involved. When I switch to Scene 2, I change to a completely different set of parts, let's say one of those parts is a synth bass. I have recorded a 4-bar riff that loops (saved as a pattern) for that bass part that I want to trigger as Scene 2 starts, and ends when I move to Scene 3, which uses completely different parts from Scene 2, including a different pattern for the instruments used in Scene 2, and so on throughout later scenes in the performance. How do I store the collection of Parts & Patterns in such a way that I can recall the entire group, which will start on Scene 1, and as I advance through the Scenes in the Performance, automatically load the corresponding pattern which belongs to each part?

 
Posted : 09/12/2020 2:24 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I think (same as Rudy) you are mixing up the terminology. There are 128 Patterns, numbered 1 through 128. Each Scene can be from 1 to 256 measures in length and there are 8 Scenes to each Pattern.

Therefore, all your data can fit in one Pattern. Say Pattern 001... Scenes 1-8

In my performance - Scene 1 uses a couple different parts, and no patterns are involved.

If Scene 1 uses “a couple different parts”... but, of course, a Pattern is involved. You probably wanted to say “no music data is recorded to Pattern 001, Scene 1”. But if you have a Scene 1 — it is apart of a Pattern. It can have music data recorded to it or no music data recorded to it. When no music data is in a Scene, the LENGTH setting is the number of measures of RESTS that are used. But refer to it as Pattern 1, Scene 1. and set the Length to the number of measures you want it to count.

If no music data is recorded then Scene 1 simply gives you access to 16 Parts... of which you can select any of the first 8 to KBD CTRL.

When I switch to Scene 2, I change to a completely different set of parts, let's say one of those parts is a synth bass.

Again, trouble with the terminology. No, you cannot have “a completely different set of Parts”. What you probably meant to say was, you wish to active a different set of Parts to directly interact with... but the same 16 Parts that were in Scene 1 will be available to all eight Scenes, what you want to convey is in Scene 1 you are playing “a couple” of Parts - in English “a couple” is two. So say you have two KBD CTRL icons active in Scene 1... Parts 1 and 2

For Scene 2 — You can switch the KBD CTRL active icons to a different group of KBD CTRL Parts, turning KBD CTRL Off on Parts 1 and 2, while activating KBD CTRL on Parts 3, 4 and 5, as an example. One of those could be a Synth Bass, the others might be a keyboard and a pad split for the right hand.

It is impossible to follow the rest of you request because you keep using the words “completely different” - the Performance is a 16 member band... you don’t “completely” change the band. You can change which of the 16 members you are directly playing by placing them in Parts 1-8, and using the KBD CTRL function to activate/deactivate them. Parts that you want to playback data from the Sequencer should be moved to Parts 9-16 or to Parts you are not going to automate the Scene to select to activate for keyboard control....
A Scene can be used to activate the KBD CTRL function on any of the first 8 Parts.

Either rewrite your post with actual details, or at least indicate you know the difference between KBD CTRL active Parts (means they will automatically be activated by the SCENE Change) and what you keep saying “completely different” — there is no “completely different”.

Let us know what you’re thinking - try to work with the terminology (we can kind of get what you are talking about, but providing a proper answer, requires you understand what is being said. So let’s agree to use the terminology as implemented in the product.

A Scene can activate which Parts 1-8 that are KBD CTRL active
A Scene can contain music sequence data, 1 to 256 measures of data. It may also contain “no data” (rests)
Any Part 1-16 can be selected individually to play, or you can use the KBD CTRL function to have the Scene activate the sound (one Part) or sounds (multiple Parts) you will be interacting with, 1-8

 
Posted : 09/12/2020 11:26 am
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Thank you Bad Mister - I was trying to say the same things you were, but let me try to re-phrase in your suggested terms. You are right I have multiple parts in my performance - 9 at the moment, and part #9 contains an instrument that is only active in Scene 2. I completely get that I can engage Part 9, only during Scene 2, when I want this part to fire, using Keyboard Control. I also want to apply a Pattern only to Part 9 during Scene 2, that I have created and saved as a Pattern. When I created the Pattern, the link appeared between that Pattern and my Performance, I clicked "Store Song and Perf Settings" and also stored the Performance when I was done making other changes. When I recall that Performance, the Pattern is gone - it shows an unlinked "New Song" so I have to manually re-load the desired Pattern from the Play/Rec screen each time. In researching this, I found one of your other posts that I thought suggested I needed to store as a Song to get this to work as intended. When I followed your instructions for that, I now have a Song in my Live sets, that when I recall it, the named Pattern appears (now as an Arp) but will not automatically play unless I go back to the Play/Rec screen and hit the Play button on the keyboard. I read your comments about Patterns summoning Parts, but aside from just not getting this to work at all, the song I am working on will need to utilize different Patterns throughout different Scenes in my performance (with Keyboard Control activating/deactivating the desired parts in each scene) so if a Pattern summons the Parts, I am not following how those different Patterns are setup to interact with the Parts/Scenes the way I am looking to make this work.

 
Posted : 10/12/2020 2:25 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

First, you are recalling a Performance expecting a particular title (Song or Pattern) to appear. STOP doing that! STOP that’s the wrong way ‘round.

Flip it 180 degrees. Think first, the title of the Song or Pattern you want to hear, when you recall it - it will go get the Performance.

Here’s an analogy:
Say you are doing a jazz gig and you have a Piano Trio Performance with your favorite tweaked CFX Concert, an Acoustic Bass, a custom Jazz Kit.... which you named “Bad Mister Trio”... you have 75 titles you do with this trio Performance... using your thinking —which of the 75 titles should come up???!!

Flip it around, I recall the Song title “Misty it recalls “Bad Mister Trio”, I recall the Song title “Stella by Starlight” it recalls “Bad Mister Trio”, etc. I recall the Song title “What is Hip?” It recalls my Tower of Power Performance.

It’s the Song or Pattern title that recalls the Performance! Not the other way round.

Using Sequences in a LIVE SET
When you want to put a Song in the LIVE SET, recall the SONG linked to a Performance, then [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
When you want to put a Pattern in a LIVE SET, recall the PATTERN linked to a Performance, then [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]
When you want to put a Pattern Chain in a LIVE SET, recall the PATTERN linked to a Performance, turn CHAIN = ON, then [SHIFT] + [LIVE SET]

You are linking the Sequence to the Live Set... the Sequence recalls the Performance that was used... so that when the Sequence is recalled the Performance that was stored with it comes along.

Just try to remember the same Performance can do many song titles. A Beatles Performance might have a couple of guitars, bass and drums, where you add the keyboard “live” and sing... you might have 100 Song or Pattern titles for this one Performance.

 
Posted : 10/12/2020 9:50 pm
 rudy
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Let's try to get this working:

You have a Performance, it contains 9 Parts, let's say you named it MyPerf.
You have created multiple Scenes in this Performance. Some Scenes have only a subset of the 9 Parts active (the others are on Mute or have Kbd Ctrl off).

So far so good.

You now want to record some midi phrases that will play back later with these Scenes. So you tap Play/Rec > Pattern to go to Pattern Mode. A new Pattern shows on top, say it is Pattern number 12. If you like you can rename it.

You press Scene button 1 and you set the number of measures you want to record. I understand you didn't want any midi to play for Scene 1, and that's OK. Let's set the number of measures to 1, or 2, or maybe 4, switch Keyboard Start off, Loop off, press Record, press Play and do nothing until this recording (of emptiness) is finished. This still is a recording in Scene 1, there just are no midi notes in it. (Reading Bad Mister's post, recording is not even necessary, just setting the length in measures is enough to have this empty Scene 'recording', I pressed Record just to be sure.)

Let's now really record something in Scene 2. Press the Scene 2 button. When you now play something we'll hear the Parts you activated for Scene 2. Press Record, set the number of measures and record a midi phrase. This is still inside the same Pattern 12, it's the Scene 2 recording.

Press Scene 3. Other Parts are audible now. Make a recording inside Scene 3.

And so on for Scene 4, 5, ...
Alll these recordings, max 8 Scenes, they are all inside the same Pattern 12.

When done recording the Scenes, you have a couple of choices for playback.

Manually:
Start playing and press the different Scene buttons yourself at the right moment in your song. It'll change the sounds to the Parts that are active in that Scene and it'll play the midi phrase you recorded in that Scene.

Automatically:
You can create a Chain, which is a series of Scene recordings that automatically will follow each other up. Still all inside Pattern 12. You can for instance create a Chain that plays the Scenes in this sequence: 1 > 2 > 3 > 2 > 4 > 2 > 5 > 6, this way it became a complete song.
Now on the Rec/Play screen say that you want to play the Chain. You'll be asked to save first and then, when you start to play, the whole Chain (song) will play.

You can make a midi Song from this Chain, it is one of the possible jobs.

Since you now recorded something, at the top the link between the MyPerf and Pattern 12 is made. You can save the Pattern Performance combination. You can now go to a User Live Set screen, tap Edit and add the Performance in a slot. At the bottom select Pattern as slot type, this will add the' pattern flag' to the slot, indicating this Performance has a Pattern attached to it which will also automatically load. When done, tap Done.

If you'd now tap the Live Set slot, it'll activate MyPerf with the connected Pattern 12. Pattern 12 will start playback automatically when you start playing if saved with Keyboard Start ON, or if you don't want auto trigger save it without Keyboard Start and use the Play button. If Scene 1 is selected there's no midi playback audible because we recorded only empty measures in Scene 1, but even though we hear nothing, the recording is playing.

I hope this helps some ...

 
Posted : 10/12/2020 10:19 pm
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Thank you for the keystrokes Bad Mister - when I hit Shift+Live Set from the screen showing the Pattern & Performance linked, I now get a Live Set Item which shows "Pat" in the lower left, and when I recall that item, I can now play the desired pattern when I activate Scene 2 and press the Play button, so we are part of the way towards my ultimate goal. After verifying this, I moved to Scene 3 in my Performance, trying to essentially duplicate what I had done for Scene 2, but for Scene 3, I want to engage a new pattern from the one used in Scene 2. I recorded my new Pattern in Scene 3, renamed the Pattern, made sure the link icon appeared, and hit Shift+Live Set again. This time, it saved a new item in the Live Set list, also showing the Pat indicator in the lower left, and when I recall that item, it works for Scene 3, but now the Scene 2 Pattern is gone. Is there a way to advance Scene buttons through a Performance, where different saved Patterns are engaged to correspond with each scene, or can this only be done by moving through different entries in the Live Set panel? Assuming I can get this solved, I am also interested in one of your extra credit exercises - I would like to make the desired Pattern auto-play when I press the Scene button, instead of hitting the Play button to engage the Pattern...

 
Posted : 15/12/2020 5:18 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Again, it is the terminology that is throwing you off.

There are 128 Patterns.
Each Pattern has 8 Scenes.

You can “Copy” your Pattern 1, Scene 3 to Pattern 2
Then you can link Pattern 2 with a Live Set

Because you have convinced yourself that each Scene could be used as a separate composition, (it can, but... ) you have not considered the potential drawbacks.
One being - all 8 Scenes of Pattern 001 share the same name and they share the same tempo. They all get linked to the Live Set together, as well.

Each Pattern can have its own Name and importantly, its own Tempo along with the ability to be associated with its own Live Set slot.
So it follows to have a separate association with a Live Set, you might want to COPY the Scene to its own (empty) Pattern
Recall the Scene
Tap “Edit/Job” > “Track” > “Copy”
Setup to Copy your Scene, (All Tracks) to an empty Pattern number.
With the Performance linked to this Pattern...
Then associate the Pattern with a Live Set slot.

Extra Credit
There are situations where Tempo does not necessarily have to be locked in... for many “live” performers with synthesizers tempo is the speed at which it is playing right now, and not necessarily a fixed item. But when constructing a sequencer designed for wide flung applications, you can understand the selection of certain default behaviors. Like 4/4 time as a default, and not having a linear Timeline function like Tempo in the looping Pattern mode. So one tempo applies to all Scenes.

I can think of ways to use Scenes as individual compositions, but because of the relationship between Scenes 1-8, they are meant to be used together. By wanting to link one of them with Live Set, you are in effect linking them all to that Live Set.
Scenes are very often used as separate musical sections within a single musical composition. The way they are linked together definitely supports that type of usage.

 
Posted : 16/12/2020 6:42 pm
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