Scene buttons and this scene system doesn't directly memorize, change, or modify A.SW1 or A.SW1. You can have these scenes change arpeggios. And so indirectly, assuming your arpeggios are control ARPs that turn on or off A.SW 1 and/or 2, you can have a scene affect the assignable switches. Arpeggio triggering or hold rules apply - so it's not necessarily automatic even when using control ARPs.

Also when using A.SW1 and/or A.SW2 in order to turn on/off elements - these do not work like mute switches. Say you have elements 1-3 that should be ON when A.SW1 is ON and elements 4-6 should be ON when A.SW1 is OFF. A.SW1 is ON - you play (and hold) a chord and you will hear elements 1-3. Keep holding and press A.SW1 OFF while holding the chord. You will still hear elements 1-3 sound. You will not hear any elements 4-6 yet since you haven't triggered any new notes. Keep holding the initial chord and play some new notes. You will still hear elements 1-3 sound (assuming decay hasn't gone down to 0) but the new notes will trigger only elements 4-6.

Not that this is what you are describing - but just be aware of how A.SW works with respect to the XA control feature. It doesn't mean "elements on/off" - it means "elements trigger on/off". Anything held before changing the state of an assignable switch (A.SW) used for XA control is not affected by the change of the A.SW.

I’m trying to understand how the assignable switches work with regards to scene switching.
I have an organ performance (single part) that has each switch enabling different elements. This work as expected. In this performance i have duplicated the organ sound (single part) as i want to split the keyboard and add some brass. All this works fine. Scene one has the organ covering the whole keyboard, scene two has the split. AS1 + AS2 work as expected.....sort of.

As we are fond of saying, there is no ‘one-way’ to solve issues. You duplicated the organ by placing it in an adjacent Part so that you could use the same organ *split* with brass.
This is feasible and as you say it does “work as expected.....sort of”. Another way of accomplishing this same thing would have placed the Copy of this organ in a New Performance - one that is the organ and the brass split.

If you assess what the impact of using the SCENE change, as you’ve attempted, and using a second Performance, you find that you can seamlessly move between Scenes, and you can seamlessly move between Performances. So the change will be undetectable. Why this maybe a viable alternative for you is explained below.

Because AsSw1 and AsSw2 are not memorized in the Scene, they behave exactly like other controllers not stored in the Scene.
For example, the MW is an example. Say your MW is doing Rotary Speaker “Speed Control” — if you move it up to engage FAST, and change Scenes to activate the other organ, notice the new sound (once triggered) does not inherit the FAST Speed, you would need to physically move the MW back to minimum and pass the “switch point” which sends the appropriate message to this newly activated Part. If it is a Copy of the same organ, the MW will now be ‘out-of-sync’ — much like the AsSw situation you describe next.

Now here’s the thing. In scene 1 if i turn on one of the switches i get the desired effect. LED stays on, new elements can be heard. If i then switch to scene 2, i get the organ sound without the added elements, but the LED on the switch stays on. I have to hit the switch twice. Once to turn it off and then back on, where i then get the new elements. If i turn the switch off while in scene 2, and go back to scene 1, the sound is as i left it (with the extra elements sounding) but now the LED is off.

Turning On (latch) the Assign switches is like moving the MW forward. It remains where you left it. When you change Scenes, the Switch is now out-of-sync and needs to be reset in order to send the appropriate message.

AsSw1/2 will be recalled in the Off position. You engage them to activate the change.
If you want the opposite condition there initially, you should program and store the setting the way you require, so that when you recall it every thing is correct. The Switch is initially recalled in the OFF position.

Because you are within the same Performance the position of controllers, like the latching AsSwitches, do not reset... when you move to a different Scene. They will however reset if you move to a new Performance.

The act of using SSS (Seamless Sound Switching) to move to a new Performance will reset your Assign Switches so that pressing them activates you’re assigned parameter settings as you’d expect. The act of moving to a new Performance ensures the SwitchEs return to their default setting, Off.

Therefore, one way around this is to move Part 2 (the organ / brass split) to its own Performance location. Now when you need to play the organ you’re in the first program, when you need the organ/brass split, all things with your AsSw1/2 will reset but there will be no interruption in sound. The sound will remain as triggered as long as you hold down the keys. As soon as your first key strikes post the Performance change are triggered under the conditions you expect and the AsSw are Off as you’d expect.

Just FYI.
__We mentioned the Assign Switches can be set to Latch or Momentary and this is done at the upper COMMON level of the Performance. [HOME] > [EDIT] > “General”
__We mentioned the Assign Switches normally default to Off.
__We need to mention, that global (for the entire MODX) you can set Controller‘s to RESET or HOLD... this allows the last condition of the Controller to be inherited when changing Performances. [UTILITY] > “Settings” > “MIDI I/O” > “Controller Reset” = Reset or Hold

Extra Credit:
The AsSw1/2 reset to 0 (Off)
They can be independently set to act as either Latching or Momentary behavior. That will be the setting — for all Parts of the Performance they will exhibit the same behavior. If you need some Parts to have Latching behavior and another to have Momentary behavior, you may consider what is suggested above: Move these to instrument emulations to different Performances.

In the Performance Basics articles, we introduce the concept of merging several Performances into one. And this can make sense once you work out the functions that they all will have to share. If you run into a situation where a Part requires its own setup that becomes a reason to create a New Performance.

For example, you could place your acoustic piano, electric piano, a lead synth, and a lead guitar in the same Performance, but only if they can all share the same System Effects... if the guitar sound you are creating requires, say a special Variation Effect (radically different) from the one the others are sharing, well, that’s a good reason to create a separate Performance for the guitar.

Say the guitar sound required the AsSwitches to be ‘momentary‘ for how you like to perform... if the others need them to be ‘latch’ that is a good reason to make a separate Performance. The Switches can be either latch or momentary throughout the Performance.

In general, any time you merge Performances, the system makes you sort out the top (upper) level of Assignments. And this can be complex... conflicts can arise, but you are able to resolve this by going over exactly what you need. Often you will see assignments that address a none existing Part and parameter— this can happen when borrowing a component Part from another Performance.

When it comes to the upper Common/Audio level of the architecture reviewing your Control Assign screen is highly recommended.

Thanks guys, i will have a read and digest all this this evening, I’m out on the road at the moment. There seems to be a lot of info so i will take it all in.....eventually lol.

One thing that caught me eye, and has been suggested to me before, is to use different performances instead of scenes. While this makes a lot of sense, and i tried that, the LCD screen is a bit lacking in touch feedback and speed. Its much, much easier and and accurate hitting one of the real buttons, and see it light up, than trying to hit a button on the screen. I dont tend to do a lot with my left hand, so having those buttons right above it makes things a lot easier for me.

Jason. I didn’t think you understood my question though. I’m not holding notes down and expecting to hear anything ‘new’. What I’m seeing (or hearing) is unrelated to having the AS LED on or off WHEN i have changed scenes. Just trying to understand why this is.

Jason. I didn’t think you understood my question though.

I understood. In fact, I had this line in my response so you would be clear why I was addressing something that was not directly related to your scenario - but rather background information:

Not that this is what you are describing - but just be aware of how A.SW works with respect to the XA control feature.

I used holding down notes as the clear way to describe how XA control (A.SW) works in relation to elements. Not assuming this is what you're doing. It's important to know that these are trigger switches and not on/off switches for the elements themselves in order to have a well-rounded understanding of how these buttons relate to elements.

The key point here is that in normal usage scenes do not alter assign switches. If you're expecting scenes to change A.SW then that is based on a false assumption. Scenes do not memorize everything - there is a short list of what they memorize and assignable switches is not on it.

One thing that caught me eye, and has been suggested to me before, is to use different performances instead of scenes. While this makes a lot of sense, and i tried that, the LCD screen is a bit lacking in touch feedback and speed. Its much, much easier and and accurate hitting one of the real buttons, and see it light up, than trying to hit a button on the screen. I dont tend to do a lot with my left hand, so having those buttons right above it makes things a lot easier for me.

There are several ways to move between Performances that do not involve the touch display.

When you are on the Performance HOME screen, you can advance to the next Performance using the [INC/YES] button and move to the previous Performance using the [DEC/NO] button; or use the DATA DIAL to advance (clockwise) or retreat (counterclockwise).
If you are on the Live Set grid the [INC/YES] and [DEC/NO] buttons will still work to advance and retreat through the current 256 Live Set locations.

Alternatively, a Foot Switch can be used to either advance or retreat (one direction only) but this can be used in conjunction with LIVE SET.

To review the parameters memorized in Scenes please see the following article on functions in the Scenes as of the most recent firmware update:
The Power of Scenes

Because Super Knob position, Super Knob Links, Super Knob Control, can now all be memorized, this adds virtually the position of any of your SK-linked Assign Knob, as well.

@dave:

I'm not really clear what you're doing with the assignable switches. What elements are meant to be turned on/off and why you do this. Are you using element switches as sort of organ registrations (presets) to kill a "drawbar" (element maps to a single drawbar)? Or to turn on/off percussion? Or something else?

I say this because whatever you are doing with assignable switches may be able to be reconfigured to use superknob instead. And superknob CAN be memorized by scenes - so this may be ultimately more flexible than what you're doing. This is where the background on A.SW comes into play - because the two will act slightly differently.

Or, if you have open PART(s) in slots 1-8 then you can copy all of the elements you want to switch on/off to a new PART. Delete these elements from the original PART. Then use keyboard control ON/OFF the same way you would use A.SW XA Control. Keyboard Control is memorized by scenes. This suggestion is fairly "advanced" because there's a lot more work here than reconfiguration to use superknob. But, if you have the available unused PARTs, this is will act "the same" as using assignable switches with respect to how the tone generator responds to the controller vs. superknob which will act different -- this goes back to the "holding the chord" explanation.

Without knowing what you're trying to do with elements (musically - not technically) - I'm flying blind with knowing exactly what should/could be done to give you what you're aiming for.

Sure - maybe you can split your Performance into two and get there. But you might not have to do that in order to get to your goal. I've been able to manage to have one Performance per song (including medleys - with different sounds per different tune within the medley). And sometimes I have to duplicate PARTs like you do - generally strings. Since I need a "hole" in the middle of sounds and want the octave offsets of the low-side strings to be at a different offset than the upper-side strings. I've used different techniques to squeeze everything within a single Performance and haven't had to change Performances midstream at a gig. My previous keyboard (MO6) I did have to split between two Performances for the same tunes.

Good points... there are, indeed, many ways to accomplish most things. And each individual must decide what they need to control and then customize things so they work for the situation. There are common functions that all Parts share, then there are those that can be specialized per Part. Programming of the shared functions involves resolving any conflicts. The original programmer cannot anticipate every possible way the end user might wish to use a sound. So when merging Performances you must build that upper common level of controller assignments anew resolving any conflicts.

In general, the Scene Memory focuses on memorizing parameter values (not physical controller positions, the exception is the Super Knob). Because the Super Knob position is documentable, this can be used to make parameter value changes in any Part, provided the parameter’s Assign Knob is linked to the SK.

Additional Switches
The Assign Switches will default to Off when a Performance is recalled. The question was about them being out-of-sync when moving to play other components within the same Performance. That is the nature of that... there are definitely other methods, other than the Assign Switches 1/2, to vary the organ Element mix... including using the two other switches (MS Hold, MS Trigger) — which can be reassigned within the Performance. In an instance where they are not being used to interact with Motion Sequences in traditional fashion, these switches can be used as additional options. One is always “latch”, the other is always “momentary“. This gives you additional switches without disturbing the XA CONTROL functions that you may want to occupy the AsSw1/2

Hi,

From your first question, i understand that you want to use the organ with no split, and after with a split and some brass.

You can't store split points in scenes, but you can do it another way, using superknob:

- choose organ (part 1) with all you want for as1, as2...
- copy part 1 to part 2
- make organ (part 1) split from C-2 to G3
- make organ (part 2) split from G#3 to C8
- add part 3 = some brass and make it split from G#3 to C8. the 3 parts are with keyboard control = ON
- at this point, you can play organ on all keys and brass from G#3. they respond to assign switches.
- then you can use super knob settings to control 'element level' for each part 1 to part 3:
* part 1 should always play: no control needed
* part 2 should play when superknob =0, and fades out when superknob position increase
* part 3 should play only when superknob position increase
- you can control the mix with the shape of the used curves (standard, threshold..), if you want both organ and brass or not at the same time.
- you can store superknob position in different scenes, but the sond will come or go out abruptly.

Using element level to control the volume is better than using directly 'volume',
because you can change the master volume of each part to get a mix which fits to you.

@+