The 16 note limit is per ARP - so any other Part(s) with a different ARP will not subtract from the available budget of any other ARP.

I just recorded a 5 (different) note user ARP 16 measures long and it worked fine.

A gated ARP is the normal ARP. It means you have to hold down a key (inside the trigger range) for the ARP to run assuming hold is OFF. "Hold" will act as if you were activating the sustain pedal after you press a key. Without hold - when you let go of a key - the ARP stops. Toggle means the ARP will continue to run until you press a key inside the trigger range again. So you "activate" the ARP to run with a keypress you can let go of then you would press a key a second time (within the trigger range of the ARP - it's definable) to stop the ARP from running. You don't need hold set for this to work using a toggle type.

Which you choose (toggle vs gate) depends on how you want to deal with the keyboard acrobatics. I do not use ARPs hardly at all - but when I do I typically would use gated and use hold if I wanted to be able to let go. And I would set loop OFF if I wanted to let go and not have to "turn off" the ARP. My normal usage of ARPs is to play some fast flurry of "extraneous" sound like a harp that's background to a lead line I'm playing in the foreground.

I'm not sure how many measures or notes (as in total notes - not different notes) are limits within the arpeggiator. If I look at old specs I see 256 measures as a sequencer limit so I wonder if the ARP limit is somewhere around there. Your bass line is well below any kind of limit.

I would work on getting solid on triggering ARPs and holding ARPs through various techniques so you're more sure of knowing if the ARP is running or not. If you have a stuck note I wonder if the last note recorded in the ARP was truncated (overhangs the measure) so it never receives a note-off message.

Another Question...

Org Notes Root Parameter (set during creation of User Arps with type "Org Notes".)

Is this:-

a) The first note of the sequence, as you played it?
b) The lowest pitched note of the sequence as you played it?
c) The Root Note of the Scale or Mode you played the Sequence in?

Examples for each case

a) The Sequence starts on "A", then descends to a "G", descends to a "D", then ascends back to the "A". So OrgNotesRoot should be set to "A"

b) The sequence starts on "A" as above, but the lowest "Root" note played is a "D". So OrgNotesRoot should be set to a "D"

c) The Key is "C Maj", the intervals are relevant so the OrgNotesRoot should be "C". It is actually in Aminor (C Relative Minor), but setting OrgNotesRoot to "A" would play "Amajor" intervals.

To be honest... I do not think it is Case c). Despite the manual suggesting that Arps recognise only basic Chord types and their inversions (Major, Minor, Dom7 etc), I cannot find anything regards setting a Musical Key, Scale or Mode (Dorian, Mixolydian etc).

What I did notice is that whatever Piano Key is set in OrgNotesRoot is the ONLY key that will Start/Stop Playback in HOLD ON, ARP PLAY ONLY and TRIGGER = TOGGLE. So in this case OrgNotesRoot is just an Arp On/Off switch.

I am wondering if Keyboard Range/Split on the Part (D1-A1) is not matching up with the OrgNotesRoot Piano Key.

I.e. The ARP just keeps playing an "A1" each bar, because the Lower D, F & G are "masked out" by mismatching Part Range and ARP Range and the OrgNotesRoot (which I think I set to D1... lowest note). But A0, D0, F0 & G0 would not be playable because Part KB Range/Split is D1 to A1.

The arpeggio guide states that the root note is the key which plays the notes you keyed into the arpeggio when originally recorded. Any other note would transpose the phrase (assuming not octaves of the root note). Octaves of the root note have other possibilities depending on other settings.

The root note does not define the trigger note. The ARP's note limits define this and as you press different trigger notes within this range - org note will transpose the phrase accordingly.

The note limits (not ARP) limit the notes that are output. If your transposed phrase goes outside of the bounds of the regular non-ARP limits then these particular notes will not sound. This is where splits can interact. It can be confusing because, to me, the two ranges should have a reverse definition. The ARP range defines the range of your finger causing something to happen (which is usually what the regular note limit does) then the regular note limit will limit the range of the ARP's output.

... so - if you want to limit the phrase to only be triggered from C-2 to E1 then the ARP limit would be C-2 to E1. And say the phrase plays as the first note the root note (root note and first note are one in the same) - then it plays 7 more notes up a major scale reaching the octave of the initial trigger note played. In this case if you want none of the notes to be truncated by the range - then you need to set the regular note range to E2. Your highest trigger note is E1 and the ARP itself triggered on E1 will play E1 F#1 G#1 A1 B1 C#2 D#2 E2. So see, that E2 is the highest note for the highest trigger range of E1. Therefore, the note range (regular, non-ARP, the same range you use for Parts usually defining the splits) needs to be C-2 to E2 to cover the range of the ARP played with the highest root note.

As far as deciding what to do with the root note for Org Note type ARPs - typically the key I press to trigger the ARP defines what the first note in the ARP phrase will be. This is just how I've used it - you can define the root note to be different than the 1st note and the definition above (1st paragraph) dictates how that works out. At any rate - if you want the note you press to trigger to be the 1st note played by the arpeggiator then your root note and the 1st note you play recording the ARP will be the same. And - since key signature of the recorded ARP doesn't really matter (it's going to become relative to the trigger note anyhow) - I always just play the ARP in the key of C and make the ARP's root note C - sometimes offsetting the octave - but mostly I it to be the same octave and "C" note. If you played your phrase starting on A3 (say in the key of A minor) and set the root note as A3 - then when you played a C3 then the ARP would output the phrase equating to if you had played the original ARP phrase starting on C3 in the key of C minor and had a root note of C3. I would just record starting on C to begin with -- but you certainly don't have to do this. What I'm getting at is there's a lot of equivalence in recording the ARP for Org Note - so you might as well pick a key signature of your choice rather than feeling like you need to play any particular key signature and then the root note will define what note will trigger that same phrase you played in the recorded key signature. But say the end result will mostly be in some other key signature - the key you press relative to the root note will transpose the phrase.

I'm mostly explaining this in terms of single-note phrases (not strictly, but I haven't mentioned chords so much) because your description of the problem child is a "single note" bass line. And this, btw, happens to be mostly how I use ARPs myself. And so, I haven't had to get so much into chord recognition and that side of the fence.

... but - with org notes you also have the concept of scale degree alterations. So the root note can also become the anchor for analyzing alterations of chord tones. Since this is outside of what you're currently doing - I can stop here. But Org Note can be used to alter chord tones according to a chord you play within the ARP note limits. You can tell the ARP to raise or lower various chord tones (vs the root which will remain anchored) by the chord quality you play.

@J Thanks

In the song, the various Parts Enter and Exit at different times within the performance.

Each Instrument Part has its own assigned Keyboard Range with no overlap (accidental or otherwise).

In effect what I would like to do is (like a DJ with multiple turntables) start and stop different Parts playing independently.

Example
Start Drums
Start Harp
Start Piano
Stop Piano
Stop Drums & Harp Simultaneously
Start "Dub Step"
Stop DubStep, Start Drums, Harp and Piano simultaneously.

I find with Gate Trigger, switching ARP on for 1 Part will also start everything else.

Also I don't want to hold down notes, I want single key press, and ARP Starts and then keeps playing.

I'm probably not being very clear.

I got used to using a Boss RC300 Looper with Guitar (mainly for practice) where I had Drums + 3 Tracks (Parts) I had previously recorded and they were all Tempo Synced. I would use my foot to drop tracks in and out of the mix while I practiced Soloing/Improvising over the top.

I suppose I am trying to do something similar with each "Loop" being a Part+UserArp. Hope that makes sense.

Anyways, I'm thinking I probably need to be with my MODX to go any further. Will try to get home tonight.

I find with Gate Trigger, switching ARP on for 1 Part will also start everything else.

That's because your Parts' ARP note limits overlap for the note you pressed so they all trigger at once. If you want the ARPs to be staggered in triggering then define the ARP trigger note range so there are non-overlapping regions for the trigger note and they will all run independently according to when you strike a key within that particular Part's trigger range. The trigger range is the ARP note limit under the Arpeggio menu.

Also I don't want to hold down notes, I want single key press, and ARP Starts and then keeps playing.

Yes - you have options covered here:

"Hold" will act as if you were activating the sustain pedal after you press a key. Without hold - when you let go of a key - the ARP stops. Toggle means the ARP will continue to run until you press a key inside the trigger range again. So you "activate" the ARP to run with a keypress you can let go of then you would press a key a second time (within the trigger range of the ARP - it's definable) to stop the ARP from running. You don't need hold set for this to work using a toggle type.

So toggle vs. hold differ in how you disable the ARP (while it's running). Toggle lets you press a key to turn it off in the middle of an ARP playing. Hold doesn't allow for this. You'd have to either turn the Part's ARP off or turn off master ARP (which turns all of them off), or switch the ARP number so that Part you want to turn "off" has Mute 4/4 (as one example) as the ARP. Mute 4/4 doesn't actually stop the ARP - it just silences the output. Anyways - ignoring turning off ARPs - toggle and hold are your options that both can be used to keep ARPs running with a single keypress to start them off without having to hold down the key.

Your other option is to plot out the 8 individual ARPs within Parts and use ARP # to accomplish something similar.

Part1(Drums)......ARP1=Drum_ARP ... ARP2=Drum_ARP .. ARP3=Drum_ARP...ARP4=Drum_ARP
Part2(Harp).........ARP1=Mute 4/4 ....... ARP2=Harp_ARP ... ARP3=Harp_ARP....ARP4=Mute 4/4
Part3(Piano) ......ARP1=Mute 4/4 ........ ARP2=Mute 4/4 ...... ARP3=Piano_ARP..ARP4=Mute 4/4
Part4(Dub Step).ARP1=Mute 4/4 ........ ARP2=Mute 4/4 ...... ARP3=Mute 4/4 .....ARP4=Dub_Step_ARP

... and so on. The "ARP1" above is indicating the individual ARP #1 for the associated Part on the left start of the row.

So in this kind of usage of ARPs (which is another option - you don't have to do it this way) - all of the ARPs would run at the same time and the Arpeggio number is selected by say a SCENE button which will effectively turn on/off the ARP for given Part(s) according to the programming for the selected arpeggio number. Actually, Mute 4/4 means just don't output the notes - but still run. The benefit of this is that if you did want all of these ARPs to be in sync and all start at the same time together then this would enforce that since you would want to start all Parts' arpeggios at the same time and let Mute 4/4 handle which Parts are sounding ("on" ). This is how the DJ kind of thing is generally handled (in presets) since it is more constrained. However, this method doesn't "allow" for you to stagger the start of the ARPs arbitrarily if that's something you wanted to do.

You have options. There's not one way. The system is flexible on lots of fronts. Knowing what all the bells, whistles, ranges, etc. do can help you so I'm glad you're really digging into this.

Even more - arpeggios can interact with motion sequences which allow even more options for all kinds of things including "muting" Parts (by modulating volume - as in instantly turn off if you want - or 3 measures later or ... ). Maybe not for this loop pedal type thing (or maybe so) - but usually I use motion sequence as a way to automate "turning off" a Part or certain elements after hitting a particular note - like the last note in a run of 16th notes (the "high" note).

This is not to say that it's not an admirable and right thing to do, attempting to get Arpeggios to do this kind of apportioned song reproduction so as to understand and use Arpeggios, but I would like to add my take on this: that the Pattern Sequencer's strength is this kind of workflow...

...IF (and this is a big if) all the various looping portions are factors of the longest loop.

In your case, you've got 1 bar, 2 bars and 12 bars, so that's ideal for this.

The tricky part of the Part process is that the shortest Pattern must be recorded first, on its part, with the Pattern Sequencer (in this case) set to one bar during the first record of this part. Until this is done, the Pattern Sequencer Length cannot be changed.

Then the next shortest part must be recorded at its length (2 bars), and then the 12 bar recording.

Done this way, the 1 and 2 bar parts will loop perfectly, as will the 12 bar part.

This is Scene 1.

In this manner, Scenes are designed to be used such that each section of a song can be built up within a Scene of the Pattern Sequencer, and moved between in much the same way you might use an MPC or Ableton Live to "remix" between sections of a song.

AND, having gotten each part correctly looping in its own Scene, from this point you can, if you so wish, choose to convert any of these parts to arpeggios, and begin that battle. Or just keep using the Patterns in the Scenes to play over etc.

Lots of good advice here.
If i understand correctly you are trying to trigger arps that don't change, but cycle through the song, dropping in and out over time
12 bar piano
2 bar harpsichord
1 bar drums etc

Arp Convert type 'Fixed' just takes the hassle out of it compared to Org Notes

If transposition of the phrase at will is desired then of course fixed would not work. Unless you wanted to transpose all the ARPs together in which case you could record 8 fixed transpositions of fixed ARPs and use a SCENE button to select which key all of the ARPs use by selecting a different fixed ARP which represents a different key.

Turning on/off ARPs per Part would still need some mechanism - probably toggle ARPs. Due to the lack of relationship of the trigger note to the phrase's key - you could press any key to trigger the same phrase. Therefore, you could limit the ARP limit (which limits the trigger note) to a single note and have each ARP triggered by a specific key which would represent the On/Off switch for each ARP. However, this same mechanism could also be used for Org Note with the modification that you use a separate octave range for each ARP where notes within this octave range determine the key of the individual ARP and also serve as the on/off switch.

If you constrain the solution - there are easier ways to construct both the trigger method (technical "dance" interacting with the control surface pushing buttons or keys) as well as the programming. However, if you want more complex control then this is all doable with a greater investment on both the programming side as well as flexibility (and therefore complexity) on the technical dance interacting with buttons and keys.

It's up to you but learning both scaled back/limited solutions as well as more complex ones would be good generally so you are able to use the best tool for the job according to your own wishes. Not to leave features on the table because you are unaware of the capabilities or how to use them.

Thanks all.

I will try out all suggestions shortly.

Hey All, big thanks. Its now all working how I hoped/wanted.

The "Only Playing 5 Bars" and the "Only playing the note 'A' " issues I am quite certain now were due to not setting/limiting KB Ranges in the Edit - Part - Common - Arpeggio - Common screen.

The "only playing 5 Bars" was due to playing a non-Arp Part on Bar 6, which basically turned off (toggled) the Bass Piano Arp.

The "only playing A" was due to an "incorrect" fix for the Previous problem, and overlapping KB ranges for Harpsichord and Piano Parts. I had accidentally extended the Harp KB range down to include a Bass A, causing it to overlap the "top" of the Piano section. It had something to do with that, I'm not quite sure exactly what I did.

Anyway, Pianos and Harp now have clearly defined Ranges with no overlap.

I suppose there is a way to do this with overlapping parts, but I'll work that out later.

I made a demo you can find at the Soundcloud link below.

Unfortunately, Soundcloud compresses the .wav file, and I can't change that unless I pay.

If anyone knows a way to attach the .wav file let me know.

Cheers.

The "attachment" section of the response area here shows (bolding added for emphasis):

Upload files or images for this discussion by clicking on the upload button below. Supports gif,jpg,png,zip,rar

Therefore, compressing with either supported format would allow for posting content with other extensions including .wav as long as the maximum file size of 2MB is not exceeded. Conforming to the 2MB limit may require the same amount of loss as free soundcloud - so it may not be worth it.

@J... if you made that B25 Airplane sound with just synth oscillators I am mightily impressed... and you need to teach me how to do it :p

Can you do a "Stuka Dive Bomber" including the "Horns of Jericho" with a whistling bomb and a baby crying at the end?

(Have a listen to "In The Flesh/The Thin Ice" by Pink Floyd).

A site hosting royalty-free public domain WAV files was the source for that .wav because it was easiest for me to grab one off the net then generate one myself. There are plenty of airplane sounds out there you can import if you want.