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User File loading snafu

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 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Greetings:

I have a Montage and a MODX+.  I have the same libraries installed on both, loaded in the same order.  I program performances on the Montage, creating a User File.  I then load that User File to the MODX+.  This has work well for about a year.  However, lately, when the Performances load on the MODX+, by way of a User File, numerous Performances have changed dramatically.  Some Performances start on the Montage using three parts.  When they show up on the MODX+, they now have five parts.

What am I missing?

Thanks - Mark

 
Posted : 20/07/2024 7:35 pm
Jason
Posts: 8219
Illustrious Member
 

I don't know what's going on but if modifying Performances one-by-one it would probably be easier to use Soundmondo (private - so you're not sharing with everyone) to do the conversion rather than using a user file.  That is if you're not using user curves, user microtuning, user arps, user waveforms (samples), etc.

 

Since I guess you're replacing your user bank - try filtering by the User bank within [CATEGORY SEARCH] just to remove the possibility of data coming from a library or preset Performance.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 23/07/2024 9:45 pm
 Toby
Posts: 344
Reputable Member
 

Some Performances start on the Montage using three parts. When they show up on the MODX+, they now have five parts.

It isn't possible for such a transfer to add parts to a performance.

So the most likely scenario is that you have inadvertently created multiple performances that have the same name and one of them has 3 parts and another has 5 parts.

A common way for this to happen without you realizing it is if you use give one of your user performances the same name as a preset or library performance.

Do a full category search and select the 'sort by date' option. Then find a problem performance and see if you don't have two or more with the same name.

Unfortunately Yamaha allows you to create as many multiple performances with the same name as you like. The 'sort by date' doesn't actually show the date it was created but it will put them in order by the date they were created.

You should review any performances with identical names and either delete the dups or give them a unique name.

Let us know if that was the issue.

 

 

 

This post was modified 4 months ago by Toby
 
Posted : 23/07/2024 10:16 pm
 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

So here is an Update

Part user error, part still unresolved.

I created a Library file that had Live Sets.  The name of the live sets was pretty close to the Live Sets I had set up in my User file. So from time-to-time, I was saving new performances in the wrong Live Set.

So I did a reboot of both my Montage and MODX+.

I reloaded the exact same Libraries, in the same order, into both the Montage and the MODX+.

I loaded the User file onto both the Montage and the MODX+.

I left out the Library that had the duplicate Live Set.

(My understanding is that the MODX+ can play Montage Library files and User files, as is - that is, the MONDX+ handles all of the necessary conversions).

So now, the only Live Sets that I have on both the Montage and MODX+ are with the Preset and with my User.

Now on the Montage, everything plays just the way I intend and the User Live Set on both the Montage and the MODX+ look the same and call up the correct Performances.

However, on the MODX+, a couple of my Performances now have additional (extraneous / unintended) parts.  So a performance on the Montage with 4 parts (ie: brass, piano, strings, pads), shows up on the MODX+ with (brass, piano, strings, pads, bells, sax).

The MODX+ Firmware is 1.0

Montage Firmware is 3.51

I used the Melas Montage Waveform Editor to create my Montage Libraries (vers 2.2)

Any suggestions are appreciated

Regards - MArk

 
Posted : 05/08/2024 4:06 pm
 Toby
Posts: 344
Reputable Member
 

So here is an Update

Welcome back - sorry to hear you are still having an issue.

I created a Library file that had Live Sets.  The name of the live sets was pretty close to the Live Sets I had set up in my User file. So from time-to-time, I was saving new performances in the wrong Live Set.

Please excuse the way this is worded - it might, at first, sound pedantic - but it is important to make something clear.

A live set doesn't really 'save', or have a copy of, a performance. Each live set slot merely contains a LINK to a performance. That link might be to a preset or user performance or one in a library.

So I did a reboot of both my Montage and MODX+.

I reloaded the exact same Libraries, in the same order, into both the Montage and the MODX+.

I loaded the User file onto both the Montage and the MODX+.

I left out the Library that had the duplicate Live Set.

The above looks good - assuming the reboot included an 'Initialization' of all user, system and advanced settings from the Utility screen.

However, on the MODX+, a couple of my Performances now have additional (extraneous / unintended) parts.  So a performance on the Montage with 4 parts (ie: brass, piano, strings, pads), shows up on the MODX+ with (brass, piano, strings, pads, bells, sax).

That suggests to me that they are DIFFERENT performances. I mentioned one possible wrinkle before - Yamaha allows you to create MULTIPLE performances with the same name. Did you check to see if you have multiple perfs, in particular that problem perf, with the same name?

Live set slots are just links to actual performances and they show the NAME of the performance.

Use Category Search (see the graphic on page 215 of the reference doc) and the search filter and then at the bottom of the screen select 'Sort -> Date'.

There is no actual 'date' you can see but it will sort any duplicate names in the order the performances were created.

My hypothesis is that you will see at least TWO of the same name for your problem performance.

What CAN happen (don't know if it happened in your case) is when you create the live slot entry you will get the current performance by default. Then if you use 'Category Search' from the live set page it may only list ONE of the dups on the screen because what it lists depends on the 'bank' selected.

That 'bank' selection will be whatever bank was selected that last time you viewed the category search screen so it could be any of: preset, user, 1 of 8 libraries, favorite, all.

Even if 'all' is selected for bank the default sort order is 'Default' which means it won't list duplicate names together where you might notice the duplicate.

So if you just accept/select the ONE perf of that name that is shown you could be selecting the wrong one.

Again - I apologize if the above comes across wrong but I don't want to make any assumptions about what you know or what you have already looked at as a possibility. I just want to make sure you have considered the 'duplicate'  angle.

I'm not aware of any way that choosing a live set entry can 'merge' two performances to add 2 extra parts.

This post was modified 3 months ago by Toby
 
Posted : 05/08/2024 5:49 pm
 Mark
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Greetings - Here is my latest (final?) update.

For background, I've been using the Melas Montage tool software to create my performances and arrange my libraries.  I do my programing on a Montage and then move everything over to a MODX+ for gigging.

When I created my "User" library, i duplicated some of the performances (user error).  Some of these performance had the same names but were did differ in the combination of performances that I had gathered.  And somewhere along the line, my user live sets did not point to that actual performances I intended.

(I should also say here, that I use Setlist Maker to send program changes to my MODX (and to a NORD Stage 3).  So Setlist Maker was calling up a Live Set performance which was pointing to the wrong performance.)

What I ended up doing is clearing out all of my libraries.  I started over with the Melas Montage Wave Form Editor so that I could keep track of my memory usage, and I recreated all of my libraries.  That gives me a foundation of sounds and performances that I use to create custom combinations, splits, layers, and scenes.

I move all of these libraries over to my MODX 7+. 

The custom performances that I generate, I store in the User bank and move those over to my MODX+.

 

Everything has been working fine - well sort of.

I need to understand the MIDI I/O setting a bit better.  I'm not sure if those setting reside with each performance, or if it is global parameter, because sometimes a performance will be in "multi" mode, and that is when I hear rouge sounds and adulterated performances. I've got some homework to do here.

Thanks for all of the helpful hints, suggestions, and explanations.

 

 
Posted : 20/09/2024 4:22 am
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