I have 2x FC7 and an FC3a plugged into MODX. When I connect(and play) a new master piano keyboard do I need to move the FC controllers to the new keyboard or will they work fine left connected to MODX? I will also need the controllers when playing the internal keyboard so will I need a set for each keyboard? Also if my external piano keyboard does not have velocity contours can I use the contours in the MODX settings to modify the input from the external keyboard? How does this affect the internal keyboard contours?

Ideally, the keyboard that you play on (the Master Keyboard) is the Controller (this includes not just the Keys, but also MW, PB, Foot Pedals, etc.). Your question about can you leave the pedals plugged into the MODX while playing the Keys of the external controller... well, it’s non-conventional and will have certain limitations. You seem to know that this is NOT the way to work traditionally, or you wouldn’t be asking the question.

If you plan, at some point to play the MODX Keyboard, then naturally you’ll want the pedals plugged into the keyboard you are physically playing. You know intuitively this is correct.

If your “dumb external piano keyboard” is so dumb it does not send velocity, it is an oxymoron (means: contradiction)... I highly recommend you get something smarter. If you are buying an external keyboard presumably to have a weighted piano action, be smart enough to buy one that is capable of velocity sensitivity as well. How can it be a *piano keyboard* and not be capable of sending soft-loud MIDI Velocity commands? I highly recommend you buy an external piano keyboard smart enough to emulate the soft-loud (fundamental) property you would want in a keyboard that is to emulate feeling like a piano. Does anyone even bother to make a weighted action keyboard that does not send velocity (sell that stock!!) what would be the purpose? Velocity sensitivity cannot be derived from a controller that doesn’t generate it (that’s one of the limitations).

Presumably, you are playing the “external piano keyboard” to get the feel of a piano... the Sustain pedal can remain plugged into the MODX (slave)... it will apply sustain even when entering Notes arrive via MIDI. The other pedals will apply their functions but you will not be able to merge the notes and the controllers if you are attempting to record to a DAW (that’s another of the limitations).

You seem to have decided on a solution without stating the initial problem. Why not have a MODX8 for the weighted action keys, and a non-weighted action “dumb external keyboard”? Why does that not work? You don’t say.

When I read “dumb external piano keyboard” I am hearing *cheap* as in inexpensive. Unless the action is superior to the GHS action of the MODX8, you’ll have to ask, what am I doing, what am I trying to save on? ... cheap plastic external controllers that are non-weighted abound... take your pick - there are tons of them. But why get a weighted action keyboard so dumb/cheap it doesn’t even do velocity?

What am I missing in your situation? Sorry, I have to ask. I’m sure you have your reasons but your question raises my questions...
Why can you not use the MODX8 as your piano weighted action keyboard?
Why have you concluded the “dumb external piano controller” is the best solution?
And ...Who makes an external piano weighted non-velocity keyboard? Dumb or smart?

I could be wrong, but my take is "dumb" is a way of denoting that the external keyboard has no tone generator and is strictly a MIDI controller. Throwing out a manufacturer/model as an example would help sort through this without the need to speculate.

And then there's the velocity part. I saw the keyboard has no "velocity contour" - which I take to mean that the MIDI controller does not have a way to adjust the velocity of strike to the eventual MIDI velocity sent by the controller. A way to apply a velocity curve such that the "feel" of the keyboard is adjusted. Not that the MIDI controller does not send velocity information relative to strike velocity.

So I believe what the OP is asking is that - although the velocities generated by the external MIDI controller cannot be adjusted for feel - can the MODX apply a velocity curve to external MIDI velocity? Or is MODX a slave to MIDI velocities with no chance to change the "feel" of external keyboards (hard, soft, etc).

That makes more sense... whether or not the MODX can adjust is less important than how it actually plays in the opinion of the person performing. Playing via MIDI is always ‘once removed’ — you are at the mercy of whichever controller you’ve selected. To believe that playing a MIDI controller will be a satisfactory experience or even similar to playing the built-in keyboard is to have great faith in that setup. Certainly every external controller is not equal, who tested the response of this particular combination? The answer will always be YOU when you connect it... Versus, there was someone responsible for tweaking the integration of MODX8 Tone Generator and the MODX8 Keybed. It’s a matched set (doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone, but it was sweated over by a qualified technician).

To expect the Velocity Offset/Velocity Depth parameters of the receiving device will be able to compensate for an external keyboard’s lack of flexible adjustments is a bit much... who could say if it is able to do a great job? The answer is always going to be: the individual playing it.

Recommendation: it’s your music! Get whatever it takes to make it a joy for you... it will be its own reward. (Compromise on something else)!

I could be wrong, but my take is "dumb" is a way of denoting that the external keyboard has no tone generator and is strictly a MIDI controller. Throwing out a manufacturer/model as an example would help sort through this without the need to speculate.

And then there's the velocity part. I saw the keyboard has no "velocity contour" - which I take to mean that the MIDI controller does not have a way to adjust the velocity of strike to the eventual MIDI velocity sent by the controller. A way to apply a velocity curve such that the "feel" of the keyboard is adjusted. Not that the MIDI controller does not send velocity information relative to strike velocity.

So I believe what the OP is asking is that - although the velocities generated by the external MIDI controller cannot be adjusted for feel - can the MODX apply a velocity curve to external MIDI velocity? Or is MODX a slave to MIDI velocities with no chance to change the "feel" of external keyboards (hard, soft, etc).

Thanks for your response Jason. I should have chosen a better word than dumb. I actually wrote the question very quickly via phone. I just wanted to get it out there and had little time.I should have used "entry level" midi spec which would have been more appropriate.. ie the type of basic midi spec that a home piano could have or an older piano. I had in mind the Roland FP10 at the time as there was no midi implementation in the manual that I was reading. Since then I have seen a midi sheet for this keyboard and it isn't that dumb really.

What you deduced about the velocity contour is correct. I since found that FP10 has a velocity curve selection so the answer would now only be useful if I chose a keyboard without one. I bought MODX8 because I wanted a quality instrument with quality integrated weighted hammer action keys. That's not what I got. It's not a quality keybed so now I'm attempting to see if I can get MODX6/7 sufficiently integrated with an external weighted hammer action keyboard to achieve what I expected the MODX8 to have done in the first place. My concern is that I can do this and it not be matched enough for my liking. Then a totally different solution may be in order..
cheers

Understood. A dedicated weighted action piano is likely going to have a premium action, I don’t know the one you mentioned... what is unknown is the experience of integrating it through MIDI. Not fully knowing your requirements we can only mention some options... MONTAGE 8 comes to mind (has the premium weighted action with Aftertouch and is the MODX’s big brother)... seems like that’s a possible solution.

Bad Mister thanks for your replies, I see you are like a politician and like to give more questions as your answers lol! No worries I will cut n paste and answer what seems mostappropriate.

Playing via MIDI is always ‘once removed’ this what I suspected but hoped was not deal breaker. Hence my questions.
To believe that playing a MIDI controller will be a satisfactory experience or even similar to playing the built-in keyboard is to have great faith in that setup. Faith is no good. It needs to be tested. Before testing some parameters need to be chosen and some understanding gained.
It’s a matched set (doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone, but it was sweated over by a qualified technician). yes and I appreciated that and in fact it was right for me too until the keybed broke more than once!
To expect the Velocity Offset/Velocity Depth parameters of the receiving device will be able to compensate for an external keyboard’s lack of flexible adjustments is a bit much. well did I write that I expected that or did I just ask it it would do that? I do not think it unreasonable to ask if midi in velocities from a keyboard without much control (dumb?) could be adjusted on entry to MODX by MODX.

your question about can you leave the pedals plugged into the MODX while playing the Keys of the external controller... well, it’s non-conventional and will have certain limitations. You seem to know that this is NOT the way to work traditionally, or you wouldn’t be asking the question. again did I write and ask for a traditional method or if what I was suggesting would just work or not? In a quick post (I had valid reasons for it being quick n dirty post although I would have preferred different) I don't think I need to qualify why I'm asking the question surely?? I will do now though.. I have invested in many Yamaha brand pedals and I don't have lots of money to throw around on duplication. Also If I go non yamaha brand it would be doubtful that the yamaha accessories would work perfectly with the other keyboard.brand. btw I have asked this question and many others at various retailers and mostly they have answers that contradict each other. It all seems to be dependent on what they are selling as to what answer they give. Nothing to do with fact or fiction. If I could trust dealers or even manufacturers then I would never need to post a question an a forum. At the end of the day all I can do is ask away many times and try to gauge what makes sense to me most.
If your “dumb external piano keyboard” is so dumb it does not send velocity, it is an oxymoron (means: contradiction)... I highly recommend you get something smarter Hallucination on your part I think here (again?) Wherever did I say that the dumb keyboard would not send velocity messages and of course if you would have understood my question about velocity contour then you would have seen the oxymoron in that 😉
You seem to have decided on a solution without stating the initial problem. Why not have a MODX8 for the weighted action keys, and a non-weighted action “dumb external keyboard”? Why does that not work? You don’t say. I havent decided on the solution hence my questions. I am still investigating a solution. Frankly I am bemused at why I need to investigate this at all. Yamaha should have provided a satisfactory solution in the MODX8 without me having to mess around. And I am disgusted with the stance that yamaha and dealers take that if I wanted good quality I should have bought the montage! The MODX8 should be capable of living out its warranty and beyond without repeatedly becoming faulty. My experience is that this is not so. and dont go saying there are 1000s of these working perfectly mine isn't and that's what matters to me at this time.

I will not cut n paste further. there is no value (non in the previous either really) I will just say that I asked these questions from sound judgement and experience of my situation. I am still investigating my options. I do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I want the modx sounds but with great playability too. In my initial post here I was careful not to mention my issues as I did not want to be seen as Yamaha bashing. All I wanted were some answers and pointers as to what to be aware of when connecting a lowish cost external controller..

With respect Bad mister My experience reading many of your posts is that you do not answer what is being asked instead you appear to put down the poster at every opportunity and double guess like you somehow know better about what they want than they do. Asking for clarification is one thing but erroneously hallucinating the reasoning behind said questions/post is entirely different and uncalled for. That being said of course I may be hallucinating your mal-intent with these matters and if that is the case I sincerely apologize to you. We all think differently! Thank goodness!

oh I just realized you asked some specific Qs at the end so it would be impolite not to answer those.

What am I missing in your situation? Sorry, I have to ask. I’m sure you have your reasons but your question raises my questions.Yes good valid reasons. and if you are sorry you had to ask I think you know deep down that the intent is not so pure of heart.
Why can you not use the MODX8 as your piano weighted action keyboard? because it breaks. Keys become loose and rattle and this causes playability issues for me. And whilst yamaha seem happy to keep "fixing" I am not happy to keep sending it away for weeks on end only to have the issue reoccur. Oh and do stop before you consider telling me to get a louder sound system!;)
Why have you concluded the “dumb external piano controller” is the best solution? I haven't. I'm just scratching around in an attempt to find some sort of solution that includes MODX engine. Foolishly maybe.
And ...Who makes an external piano weighted non-velocity keyboard? Dumb or smart? I don't know. Why would you ask?... oh sorry you are Mr Bad Mister ...it's what you do.....my bad!
Cheers
Joab

Understood. A dedicated weighted action piano is likely going to have a premium action, I don’t know the one you mentioned... what is unknown is the experience of integrating it through MIDI. Not fully knowing your requirements we can only mention some options... MONTAGE 8 comes to mind (has the premium weighted action with Aftertouch and is the MODX’s big brother)... seems like that’s a possible solution.

awe this is a nice(ish) answer. Although with the price of montage totally unrealistic but of course towing the the party line of "What do you expect sir! If you wanted it to work you should have bought the montage - silly billy" 😉

More niceish answers like this would go a long way if only to stop idiots like me rising to the bait and wastin tons of time 😉

Thanks