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I'm putting this reply in a new thread so as to not derail the other one.
Nothing wrong with this workflow but, the MONTAGE was built out of the concept of ... what if we took the power of the Motif XF and instead of just playing one at a time, allowed the player to link as many as eight Motif XF’s to build a basic playable sound.
I want to ask for clarification on this point because it doesn't add up to me, but maybe I'm missing something about the architecture of the Montage/MODX or maybe I'm misunderstanding.
The Motif XS/XF has 8 elements per part and 16 parts in a performance. The Montage/MODX have the same of each.
As I understand it, what the Montage added to this particular recipe is the following:
- A shortcut to link multiple parts under keyboard control
- Organizational support in the software architecture for loading multiple parts as a single "voice", via storing every part inside of a performance and adding the capability to merge performances
While the Montage "keyboard control" paradigm for linking together parts is new in some ways, the Motif XS/XF also has this ability though it requires menu diving: you have to edit each part and set its MIDI channel to the same number. As far as I understand the Montage method, the Motif method is more powerful in some ways:
- There is no 8-part limit: all 16 parts can be set to respond on Channel 1 and thus 16 parts can be under keyboard control simultaneously
- Several separate groups of parts can be linked and then switched between keyboard control within a single performance. So parts 1 and 2 are on MIDI channel 1, parts 3 and 4 are on MIDI channel 2, etc. Thus for example you can switch between keyboard control of up to 8 "2-part voices" inside a single performance using a single button press, by selecting between parts 1, 3, 5, 7, or 9, etc.
In order to replicate Montage multi-part performances like the CFX and Imperial Grand pianos in the Motif XS/XF, what is required is something that could seem contrary to the usual "philosophy" of the Motif: the creation of parts/voices that are never meant to be played in isolation. But, there is no limitation in the hardware or software that prevents it.
Excepting the control set programming associated with the super knob and 6 additional assignable knobs, as well as excepting any use of the motion sequencer or envelope follower, it is my understanding that the Motif XS sound engine could readily handle the loading of (non FM-X) Montage multi-part performances if Yamaha chose to offer them as a commercial sample pack in that format.
That is, in its core architecture, the Montage is a Motif XS/XF with new software that helps users load and organize "multi-part voices" and more quickly chain up to 8 parts together. Of course outside of AWM2 it adds the significant FM-X engine, motion sequencing, envelope follower, a bevy of flexibility in the knob department, and the pure analog circuit. It's hard to understate the additional value that the Montage adds, to be sure. But when it comes to its core engine, I think it's more accurate to say that there is at most a single Motif inside rather than eight of them. That would involve 128 parts per performance (1024 elements!), all playable simultaneously under keyboard control, and we aren't there... yet.
Posted : 08/12/2019 3:21 am
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Adding a point here in response to a different post in a different thread:
The MONTAGE/MODX relationship is different... they very much are built around the same concept (Motion Control), and they can share sounds in a similar way as the S and Motif-series. Because you can build sounds that go beyond the 4 oscillator, or 8 oscillator limits of the past AWM2 engines, a new controller matrix was developed to address the additional oscillators in a direct and unique fashion.
The oscillator limit for a single sound in past AWM2 engines, at least in the case of the Motif XS/XF, is 128. Unless I have misunderstood the Montage, it appears that it and the MODX brought a reduction in the number of oscillators simultaneously addressable from the keybed, down to 64.
I believe that this may be the reason why the Montage and MODX were not granted the ability to import 16-part Motif "Mixes" (the equivalent of a Montage/MODX Performance) even though the Montage and MODX act like Motifs that are always in a Mixing mode; to one or two significant degrees, a Motif Mix represents a superset of a Montage Performance's capabilities rather than a subset or complete equivalence.
Posted : 09/12/2019 6:11 pm
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From here:
Next, add to this each Part of the MONTAGE/MODX Performance, can be a complete instrument (as in previous models) or you can use several Parts to construct a massive lay detailed instrument with enough segments to do exactly what you need. To get a handle on this, it is important to talk about the changes in the AWM2 engine found here. You are no longer limited to a maximum of eight Oscillators (Elements) per the instrument you might be constructing.
The XS/XF introduced XA CONTROL, a way the AWM2 engine could switch Elements to expand the range of articulations available to the performer. You could bring in a guitar harmonic, or pitch slide, etc. You could have repeated notes change slightly (or dramatically) in timbre to make it more natural sounding. You could have a mono legato phrase automatically/seamlessly switch to a sample set without a new attack portion. The MONTAGE/MODX allow the programmer to add additional articulation, additional velocity switching... a piano with 17 different Waveforms reconstructing the soft-thru-loud changes, an 18th Waveform to articulate Key-Off sound.
You can easily construct your sounds without limiting yourself to just eight oscillators. Say you’re in a band and you need to be the “horn section” (from the keyboard)... with a multiple Part MONTAGE/MODX Performance, I can assemble and *perform* standard full horn section, just the saxes, just the brass horns, sforzando articulation, a “doit”, a fall-off, a shake, bring in a bevy of high trumpets on-demand, etc. This engine allows you real time access to a variety of high-quality horn gestures, that can be assembled in one Performance.
You can control the equivalent of eight Motif XF (8 Element) Voices, simultaneously. Doesn’t mean they all sound together (they can) but the concept is to have a palette of sounds, a bigger vocabulary of musical articulation per the sound you are tasked with emulating. You determine *when*/*how* each articulation or segment plays. Assign Switches, Assign Knobs, the Super Knob, the MW, Foot pedals, velocity/note ranges, etc.,etc.
This is an inaccurate description of the Motif XS/XF. As I've described above, the Motif XS & XF are capable of addressing up to sixteen (8 Element) Voices simultaneously from the keybed. It is entirely possible for an XS/XF to have a piano with 17 different waveforms and an 18th to articulate Key-Off. Yamaha only started advertising and utilizing this with the Montage, but the capability has been there since the XS in 2007.
Posted : 16/12/2019 10:50 pm
That is, in its core architecture, the Montage is a Motif XS/XF with new software that helps users load and organize "multi-part voices" and more quickly chain up to 8 parts together. Of course outside of AWM2 it adds the significant FM-X engine, motion sequencing, envelope follower, a bevy of flexibility in the knob department, and the pure analog circuit. It's hard to understate the additional value that the Montage adds, to be sure. But when it comes to its core engine, I think it's more accurate to say that there is at most a single Motif inside rather than eight of them. That would involve 128 parts per performance (1024 elements!), all playable simultaneously under keyboard control, and we aren't there... yet.
I think you hit the nail in the head with your conclusion. OK, I'm not considering myself an expert, and I have MOXF and MODX, but generally speaking, what you say is true. The AWM2 engine, spare for enhanced LFO, is basically verbatim the same. The same limitations were carried out from XF, which is infuriating for me as I cannot replicate a very simple sounds I've been doing for years with my other synthesizers and sampler I aimed MOXF and then MODX to replace.
Posted : 17/12/2019 4:23 pm
