I have a MODX8. Playing "Poly Hook", Arpeggio "Gate 1" on a left hand keyboard split, in connection with a Drum Rhythm on another part. Drum plays all along...fine. Not so the Poly Hook Arpeggio. My left hand is tied up to the keyboard.

That is correct. Here’s why and how to solve it:

An Arpeggio can be note-oriented or they can be controller-oriented.
Note-oriented Arpeggio Phrases are easy to understand. They are musical phrases like guitar strums, bass lines, drum grooves, piano riffs, brass flourishes, string parts, etc., etc., etc. These are easy to understand because they can be heard. Each of the Phrases you can picture the programmer having constructed them using keys of the synthesizer. All Arpeggios start as performed MIDI sequences and are converted using the “Track to Arpeggio” feature.

Controller-oriented Arpeggio Phrases require a small bit of thinking… they cannot be heard. They are not musical phrases, but are rather controller automation. The Control Arp Phrases, like “Gate 1” is an ARP Phrase that is CC11 Expression, being varied rhythmically. These are a bit more difficult to understand because although created by the programmer using the synthesizer sequencer, they do not involve pressing the keys of the keyboard to create them. No keys are pressed on Controller Arps.

CC11 is Expression and controls musical performing volume. To create the “Gate 1” Arp Phrase, the programmer plugged in an FC7 pedal and instead of touching the keyboard when recording the Phrase, all they did was record themselves pedaling the FC7 sending CC11 messages. These CC messages, that rhythmically change the output level are what get converted to the Arp Phrase.

The difficult thing to get, initially, is you cannot hear CC11 by itself. It is acting as a Modifier. A modifier changes the result, by by itself is not heard. In FM synthesis we talk about Modulators and Carriers. Modulators cannot be heard, you only hear them when they are applied to a Carrier (which carries the audible sound).

The example we use for musicians is the violin. It makes sound by dragging a horsehair bow, across cat gut strings… that is what produces the vibration that we hear as sound. The oscillation - the carrier of the audible sound. All violinists are right handed and the bow is handled by that right hand.

Meanwhile the left hands role is change the pitch and add modulation. The rolling of the wrist allows them to shorten and lengthen the area of string that is oscillating… this sharpens and flattens the pitch… we call the modulation vibrato.

Now, don’t let this hurt your head (a saying my science teacher would say before giving us the lesson)… but you remove the right hand’s contribution from this scenario… and have the violinists just work the left hand (the modifier)… the violin makes no sound. You cannot hear pitch modulation in the absence of the sound.

Control Arps that modify volume (CC11 Expression, in the case of “Gate 1” ) makes no sound… you cannot hear the volume going up and down in the absence of the sound.

Control Arpeggios require that you set the KEY MODE = Direct.
What this means is the Notes you play on the keyboard to trigger the Arpeggio will sound directly as they normal would/should, the Control Arp Phrase is then applied to modify the sound of those directly sounding notes.
Note-oriented Arp Phrases use the KEY MODE = Sort or Thru… the arpeggiator takes the keys YOU press, blocks them; it analyze them and instead of outputting what YOU played directly, they output the stored note-oriented Phrase adjusted for Major, Minor, Dominant, Augmented, or Diminished note qualities.

When you activate ARP HOLD, the CC11 messages output by the “Gate 1” Arp Phrase are, indeed, held. You will not hear them, naturally because you cannot hear a modifier in the absence of the thing it is modifying. It is that simple and that complex.

Other Control Arps include CC10 Pan, CC71 Resonance (harmonic content), CC74 Cutoff (brightness), CC17 AsKn1, CC18 AsKn2, PB.
Moving a Pan knob when nothing is sounding is not heard
Opening a Filter when no sound is happening is not heard
And so on.

The MODX/MONTAGE Motion Sequencer is very much like the Controller Arpeggio on steroids.. call up the Performance “Wax and Wane” or the SmartMorph Performance “Morphalux”… there is a Motion Sequence waiting to be triggered… much like an Arpeggio waiting to be triggered. When you do touch a Key, the Motion Sequence is triggered… this one happens to be set to the equivalent of Hold… notice even after you remove your hand (which stops the sound) the Super Knob Motion Sequence continues — you don’t hear it, because it is changing modifiers.

Modifiers make no sound on their own, they are applied to the current sound.

Nevertheless I'm looking forward to getting a hint here, why NONE of my prefered (preset) Arpeggios is held.

They are being held. You just can’t hear them. Hope that makes sense now.

The sustain pedal is keyboard HOLD.
Use the Sustain pedal to sustain your left hand notes… it works like normal in that it is taking the place of YOU holding down the keys.
You can set the Receive Switch, on a per Part basis, to respond or ignore the Sustain pedal commands.

Play the “Poly Hook” sound, turn the Arp On/Off = Off.
Notice if you play an Fm7 chord, you hear just what you played (this is Key Mode = Direct)
Activate the Arp On/Off = On, play the same Fm7 chord, the only difference is the CC11 message is turning the volume up and down… there are no Notes in this Arp Phrase. It modifies the volume of what you play.
When you set Arp Hold = On, trust me, the CC11 message is still being sent

Change the Arp Type from “Gate” to one of the Control Arps that does Pan (CC10) — just for the sake of understanding what is really happening.
For example, Arp Type = Pan Efx4CRL (#10141)

This Control-oriented Arp Phrase is CC10 Pan (Center Right Left) movement…

When you assign this and activate Arp Hold…
You can see how it is held as follows:
From the HOME screen
Tap “Motion Control” > “Quick Edit”

Here you can see the parameters available for quick access…
Set “Part” = Part 1
Notice the Pan Knob icon …it starts by standing still Center, as soon as you touch a key the Right - Left back to Center movement begins.

If Arp Hold is not On it just stops when you release keys
If Arp Hold is On it will continue……….

To continue to feed it notes without having to hold the keys with your left hand…
Use the Sustain pedal.

Hope that helps.

Extra Credit:
Link — Arpeggio KEY MODES Explained

Thanx again!!!

Was allready one of my ideas ... controller based arp 😉 Thank you; I understand. But those sounds is, what I like. So, what is the message? What can I do?

Is it not possible to play this gate-sound automatically? Track it, replay it? Create something, that sounds like that and holds?

You will have to agree that the automation of such accompaniment things is urgently needed! Whithout that I don't want to have the MODX! What else shall I do with a Super-Knob, if I have no hand free to operate it??? And a sound pattern in front of my nose, I will never be able to automate.
Today I tried more than an hour to experiment with "pattern" ... brutally failed in chaos. Something is going badly wrong here.

Be serious! Could it be, that I have the false instrument to play, what I want to play? I'm seriously thinking about giving the MODX back to the dealer and take a keyboard instead that is able to play fine accompaniments. Even my old organ can do so ... and me changing things with my free left hand till the next chord.

Kind regards

P.S.: I have a FC. Can I use it for that sustain-thing?? Or is it this pedal, that piano players use?

Is it not possible to play this gate-sound automatically? Track it, replay it? Create something, that sounds like that and holds?

I described in detail that the “Gate” thing is NOT sound. Take your time.
You can record to the Pattern Sequencer. It is designed for exactly these kinds of things. Track it, replay it. Spend some time studying the Pattern Sequencer.

What else shall I do with a Super-Knob, if I have no hand free to operate it???

For this invest in a Yamaha FC7… It is a sweep type pedal that can move the Super Knob, hands-free! Plug it into the Foot Controller 2 jack on the MONTAGE back panel.

Or is it this pedal, that piano players use?

For the Arp Hold thing — It’s the pedal like piano players use. It is used to hold notes when you don’t want to keep your hand there holding the keys down. Yamaha FC3A, FC4A or FC5 - any of these; plug it into the dedicated Sustain jack on the MONTAGE back panel.

Pedals allow you to control your music, hands-free. You have options for two FC7 sweep-type pedals, plus a Sustain pedal, and an Assignable Foot Switch.

... or Yamaha integrates a "key hold" function ... send the machine the signal "this key is pressed until another key is pressed" ... switchable between "single" (chord or single note) or "chords" (multiple keys pressed). It could be soooo simple 😉

Agreed. It's a total mystery why there's no chord and chord hold function, no step sequencer for the arps and no brightness control for the screen.

These three things baffle by their absence.

Babba's Quote:

... or Yamaha integrates a "key hold" function ... send the machine the signal "this key is pressed until another key is pressed" ... switchable between "single" (chord or single note) or "chords" (multiple keys pressed). It could be soooo simple 😉

In Response:

Each Performance has a specific intent as envisioned by the preset's programmer. Some are more traditional and require no light-bulb moments. A synth bass sound maybe sounds like mud at C-2 (C negative 2 octave = lowest pitch available) but is still making a synth bass sound of sorts up to the range where it sounds "good" and further up when it starts to get too high for any bass work - but still sounds like a higher pitched version of the "good" sound. And the whole range to G8 makes some form of a noise that fits "synth bass". Easy enough. Other dials do normal things. Maybe the mod wheel applies an automatic vibrato pitch modulation. Maybe the ribbon open and closes a filter. And on down the line.

A Performance like any one of the Vocoder Performances, on the other hand, is different. If you didn't know what a Vocoder was - you'd think your keyboard was broken on these Performances. Pressing keys doesn't make any sounds. This one is not like the others. In order to hear anything - you need to have a modulation source and plugging in a compatible microphone to the A/D input is one step in this process. The other step would be to talk/sing/grunt/etc. into the microphone at the same time you press piano keys. Then you can start to realize the intent of this Performance.

For the Vocoder example we could say that we wish there was an automatic way to press a button to supply some stimulus to the modulation "source" (A/D input). So you could automate part of the intent of this Performance and "get around" the requirement of either having a real modulation source or get around having to re-program the preset Performance to match your own intended use (such as maybe using another Part as the modulation source).

If the Preset doesn't do exactly what you want isn't really a fault of the Preset (this assumes you know how to "properly" use the Preset in question). It's an opportunity for your programming.

Although there's not a button or setting to take any note or chord and have it sound as if there was an automatic sustain that continues until the next note - it is possible to make notes work like this under FM with less work than AWM2. AWM2 you may be able to get there by using arpeggios - but not at the same time as this control arpeggio. So you'd have to make some choices.

Having "automatic sustained chords" doesn't necessarily help this Performance - the Performance is what it is. It'd be good to learn why and how it works as an exercise in gaining an understanding of your keyboard. Learning limits is as important as learning features.

I can, however, see you may want these automatic chords for some other use. For your own creation. And not have to press the sustain pedal. And not use FM-X. And/or not have to get too deep in programming the keyboard. For such a thing I'd suggest requesting the feature at Ideascale.

@Jason

I don't really know, what you are refering to or talking about.

But ONE THING!
I am neither limited by brain nor by will!!!

The Problem is, that there is NO INFORMATION about practical application of all those features. And I searched THE WHOLE INTERNET and read all manuals!!! E.g. Pattern Sequencer. Descriptions everywhere, how to record; including all those 1000 things one can adjust. But not the slightest information of HOW TO USE it in a performance. How to implement this in an song arrangement. B.t.w. "Performance" for me is the "live playing of a song-arrangement".

I saw a video of a person triggering different rhythm setting with the keys (on an extra key-split) ... on the MODX ... but from where does he know how to do such things? By the way ... he doesn't play anything other. Just like the persons in all those Yamaha-Videos. Nobody is ever playing complex song arrangements. I guess: for good reason!

"extravagant i/o device for a DAW" ... I didn't know this.

I've added some context to my earlier response if it wasn't clear.

Not knowing the intent is different from needing automatic chords. In that regard, I wholeheartedly agree. My suggestion was that the programmers of preset content for the keyboard would do a write-up that would include notes of more of the "why" and "how" of these Performances. I've previously referenced the documentation included with the Chick Corea sound library as the gold standard for how these would look. Some pushback is that "it's too hard" or "too much" or ... I think maybe there's some "security through obscurity" gong on here. That's a bit of a conspiracy theory, though. At any rate - I think users would benefit greatly from this kind of reference. In building their own Performances based off the available technology of the keyboard and also in using presets.

I think really if this is going to happen - someone (a 3rd party, not Yamaha) is going to have to painstakingly write the book as a supplemental manual and possibly interview the programmers to get additional insight into the "why" part.

For now your first clue to what the sound programmer is trying to get at would be to press the [AUDITION] button and see what's being demo'd. Watch for controllers moving (LEDs and/or on-screen indications) to get some sense of what can shape the sound. There's not an on-screen or LED indication for some physical controllers: ribbon, aftertouch, modwheel, pitch bend, maybe others. The rest you can "see".

And then next you've got to dig into the Performance and start looking at Mod/Control -> Control Assign, listing all destinations, and look at the source controllers to get a sense of what can shape the sound. And dig and dig. Do some inference. It's not the "best" story - but it's what we have. Not the worst either.

Still, I would love to see a Performance book with notes from the original content providers.

The same documentation opportunity exists for arpeggios as well.

@ Jason

Forgot to thank you for your efforts. Thank you.

One excuse: I have some problems with amercan english... learnt british. In addition we Germans use "," for better understanding;) Will show you:D

I assume, we are talking about two pairs of shoes. You are right: my studies enable me step by step to analysize effects; e. g. my favorite arp. But that is not my problem.
40 years ago I learnt something that was "in" those times: organ single entertainer. If you want: I learnt to press many knobs during playing. And allthough I played nearly everything with keys, I am not a professionell!! And I don't have the ambition to get one. And I could not really distance from those learnt playing techniques. Would be like learning guitar... no need... another world. E.g. sustain pedal. I don't know playing piano. Therefore I learnt to play with my feet. B.t.w. could be a nice additional device for Synthis 😀

Until this MODX I came along very fine and could play, whatever I wanted to play (also piano).

Nevertheless... I have no problems to "program"... one time perhaps this MODX. I am in deep need of an "automated acompaniment" to a certain degree, so to use my left hand for manipulations. For me it makes no sense to record everything, using a mouse and at the end press play button. I want to perform live. With some features of the machine my arrangements sound like a "pro" playing? So simple is it.

So I took the advice of Bad Mister: study "pattern (sequencer)". After an Odyssee I found something new. Author: Bad Mister.
Sorry... with all my respect!!! ... with him it is like asking a quantum physician how to operate a TV. Of course modern TVs function with quantum physics (btw I know a bit of those theories). And it all was born with the big bang. But who cares!? I take my remote control... tip tip... done.
Of course some understanding is fine and interesting. But when I ask how to control the (master) volume with my FC (not functioning with arp) I am not really interested in a (half true) explanation of swellers, expression pedal or whatever. It is unlikely, that I have a 200-register pipe organ in my living room.
A Pro exlaining to a Pro. But I am not a pro. I don't know things, and ask for them... and some things I don't need to be explained (e. g. how expression padals manipulate flaps on a church organ). Or the fundamental theories behind MIDI signals. I want something... and simple "tip here, tip there" could be sufficient.
In this article ("Learn") he explains a (strange) way of arranging a song. Don't know, if professionals like he, do it that way. Me not. Once again: I am not a professional. And I still play the melody in realtime.
With all my modesty I play some covers... live. What can be recorded, are what you call "pattern" or "arpeggio". Short pieces for intro, fill in, bridge or whatever. With the MODX (asumed) also the rhythmical accompaniment. Those things should be triggered by pressing a button/key.

Another example of confusing information: "scenes". "scenes", "pattern scenes", numbers of "scenes". Maybe I am not as clever as I want to be. I have 8 scene buttons I can press ... record 100??? HÄ??? What??? And no word of how to "trigger" them. Excuse me ... why recording 87 "patterns", if I cannot play them? Only to merge them like in a DAW? I understand nothing! If I want to arrange a song in that way, I use a DAW. There I can SEE the notes! And cheaper also.

It's really frustrating. I come to know more and more "what to find where" and "how to record". But it all remains the same to me. Nearly no live-abilities.

kind regards

You're right, Babba, it's frustrating.

Side note, love your sense of humour!

The frustration is mostly a very natural reaction, because much of the Montage is inconsiderately "designed". Those keen on arbitrary and needless complexity either can't or won't see that simple fact.

Once you grok this failure of management to oversee the design process and see that this is systemic to Yamaha, you're able to understand the Yamaha way. It is one steeped in a lore of its own, and a strong dose of imposter syndrome stemming from being nothing more than replicators gifted the FM tech as their only "divine inspired" moment.

Sadly, this prevents them from the self assessment and reflection required to truly consider end users. So they posture, a lot, instead.

THERE IS SOMEWHAT OF A SOLUTION.

Both of these responding to you have forgotten a much simpler hack to solve your problem with this one sound... and that is to permanently forget about controller arpeggios, and consign them to the secondary category they would have been if, in a secondary mechanism (not arpeggios, but controller arps, instead) such that you could play an actual note driven arpeggio and a controller arp at the same time.

But that's too sensible, so it wasn't even considered.

Instead, the difference is another layer of arbitrary complexity and limitations you should not have to face.

So, how to get back to some sanity?

Go to Arpeggio -> Common, for your Hook part, and turn Direct to Sort or Thru. These names, you're lucky. VERY lucky. If English was your native language you'd rage at these naming "conventions"... but as a German, you can assign their Yamaha-meaning to them without having to continually suffer dissonance between their common english usage and meanings.

Here they are, explained, in Bad Mister's writerly way: https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/moxf/arpeggiator-key-modes-moxf

Personally, I had to read these three or four times, and I'm still not sure what they mean, and won't be able to recall their meaning or confer or infer them from their naming, so will continue trialing and errorring until it buries itself in my head.

Lucky for us, in this case, it doesn't matter.

Just pick one of them... Sort or Thru.

Now you can play keys and not hear anything. More Yamaha design brilliance.

Nevermind that, head into the Arp Category selection process and search for Chord, and start trying these out. You'll hopefully find some you like and serve to replace the use of Gate to play chords.

Now, when you find one you like, you can alter timing and set it to loop via the Hold feature of arpeggios.

GOOD LUCK!!!

It's also worth mentioning that the Genos is this generation's "auto accompaniment" platform while MODX is meant to be more under manual control.

As an aside ...

Yamaha has a well deserved reputation for complexity. Sometimes there is very little between the hardware and the user interface in terms of abstraction and elegance. This creates a device more engineer driven and less musician driven. And then there are sometimes (maybe I'm being generous) unfortunate choices in the terms. Overloading terms (same term with different meanings), tricky rules sometimes only revealed through this forum (not even in documentation), or otherwise a less than elegant user experience. I think it would be great to have Tantacrul do a UI design review video for Montage. I think he'd hit on a lot of critique I (and others) have mentioned before but would present it in a more clear, humorous, and entertaining way than I ever could.

All that said - Montage/MODX is still a step in the right direction. Less things, on balance, are as "technical" as before. There's a long road of possible usability improvements still left.

It's also worth mentioning that the Genos is this generation's "auto accompaniment" platform while MODX is meant to be more under manual control.

Please stop using this extremely disingenuous strawman for every person asking about a chord or hold feature that makes absolute sense for a device with more parts than a human has fingers and 192 note polyphony.

He is not asking for much. And certainly not to give up on sound creativity in order to have a chord hold. He, and every other user, is quite within their rights to expect, perhaps even demand, that Yamaha consider programming a chord hold feature into something so heavily flavoured towards arpeggios and live performance across multiple zones of splits AND layers and unique parts when it only has one keyboard.

I agreed that it's a good idea and suggested officially registering the idea which was done. I'm an advocate for the idea.

The "its worth mentioning" comment has nothing to do with what to feature in the synthesizer line -- just that the sum of what Babba has been describing from both previous gear and current wishes aligns best with the arranger side of the fence. Genos is the flagship - but there are other less arm-and-leg. I'm not sure if Babba wants something out-of-the-box closer to what he's describing or wants to try to spend lots of time programming his MODX to approximate the features asked for (which would be a shorter timelime) or wait for features to arrive that may or may not materialize if these are must-haves. I'm fine with powering through and crossing fingers. I'm in that camp myself. Most of my fingers crossed are that wishes make it into future generations.