@patrick
Being an ignorant is not necessarily a shame, but neither a reason to be proud of or something you should practice in public.

Polyphony is something that has to do with music and not with science. Besides that, here are different people, making different music in different ways and with different priorities and tools. It requires a minimal mental and social effort to understand and respect this before you ask other whether they make music or not.

NOW TO THE POLYPHONY "PROBLEM"

I just tried it on my Montage. I took an initialized performance, I turned all effects on the performance level (reverb) off to assure that there will be no effect tails which still use one oscillator even you don't hear it.
I activated all the elements on the first part. You hear the piano samples which are there set by factory. I copied the first part with all elements set on up to the 8th part. So, I ended up with 8 parts, each part having 8 elements being active.
Therefor, pressing one key activates 64 elements.

I was/am able to play two notes at once without hearing any problems or polyphony being cut off. However, playing legato two notes to another two notes, turned one or two parts off which can be clearly seen because the meter indicator for the certain part doesn't go up. I suppose that this happens because when playing legato, playing the next two notes partially overlaps with the release tail of the previous pressed notes and therefor polyphony reduction occurs. It didn't occur at all when I played two notes staccato.
Conclusion:
To me it seems that the Montage works as advertised with a max polyphony being 128 mono/stereo waveforms.

Sladjan wrote:

I just tried it on my Montage. I took an initialized performance, I turned all effects on the performance level (reverb) off to assure that there will be no effect tails which still use one oscillator even you don't hear it.
I activated all the elements on the first part. You hear the piano samples which are there set by factory. I copied the first part with all elements set on up to the 8th part. So, I ended up with 8 parts, each part having 8 elements being active.
Therefor, pressing one key activates 64 elements.

I was/am able to play two notes at once without hearing any problems or polyphony being cut off.

Did u turn down all Elements/parts except Part 8 Element 8? Doing so will make it absolutely clear if there are any dropouts as I described. Not doing this may make it hard to notice/hear the drop outs (if you're triggering and hearing the distorted mess of all the Init Waveforms playing together and not isolating things by turning everything else down). Remembering that you have to turn them down with the faders, not mute/solo anything in order to properly test it.

@sladjan Ok you need to lighten up. This is essentially a science experiment, which is fine and i commend your efforts cause i would never have the patience.

patrick wrote:
Do you guys actually make music, or are you just here for science?

Do you actually make music? Or are you just here for:

patrick wrote:
yamaha's official response

:p

patrick wrote:
This is essentially a science experiment, which is fine and i commend your efforts cause i would never have the patience.

Jokes/teasing aside, for anyone concerned about needing patience to do this, this experiment literally takes 30 seconds or less to set up and not much longer than that to test out.

The only reason I care about it or discovered these issues is because I'm attempting to learn and discover what is and what isn't possible with this outstanding instrument in the endless pursuit of new music 🙂

Joe, you seem reasonable and like you have a sense of humor. I like that. I dont think there is anything wrong with trying to figure out the exact polyphony. i would just get caught up in writing and playing half way through setting up this experiment, i dont have the attention span. I am glad others do. i was just commenting on the dire tone in this thread and the mention of class action law suits, etc... as i said tho i think we are all interested in hearing what Phil has to say on the issue: if we are noticing that polyphony isn't living up to the specs.

this is the result of my test :
part 1 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 8th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*7 key))
part 2 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 5th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*4 key))
part 3 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 4th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*3 key))
part 4 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 3th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*2 key))
part 5 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 3th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*2 key))
part 6 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 3th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*2 key))
part 7 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 2th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*1 key))
part 8 (all other parts put to zero by volume slider) voice cut on the 2th key pressed (so poly 8(elements)*1 key))

I use sustain pedal to keep the low note pressed and then play higher notes in order to hear th low note cut.

it seems that lower parts have more polyphony priority.

patrick wrote:
Joe, you seem reasonable and like you have a sense of humor.

Yes 🙂

patrick wrote:
i was just commenting on the dire tone in this thread and the mention of class action law suits, etc...

Yes I know. The tone at times is quite distracting from getting to the bottom of the questions of the OP. Unless you don’t get distracted of course :p

@pattrick
You do not have a 1 minute attention span? Sorry.
Apparently You can not read correctly either.(periods aside.)
As You took it totally out of context 'It would then Take a Class Action'.
No one was suggesting one. Just How it. Would have to play out. Here in The USA.
And it also said 7 to 10 years to settle. Meaning. The Uselessness of it
And there have been plenty of them won. Over Smaller Items than this.
Me If I want. Because I have a M6. At The price I paid. I Can go to Small Claims. And it will be over in 6 months.
And I will win. Just over the MIDI not being disclosed. As Non-Standard.
The Poly. If not true 128. Is very disconcerting. Not Exactly a deal breaker on it's own.
But I really do not want to return the Montage. I want Answers.
Especially. About Future Flash Drive Replacement policy.
A $5.00 part. What is it going to cost to replace in a out of Warranty Montage? What Is The loaded Chip going to cost me? Not a repair shop.
It is a chip and a socket. Not brain surgery.
How Are We going to Keep This Keyboard Running Past 15 years?(That is figuring 2 replacements. of the Flash Mem. part).
*Starting. The Day it is First Charged. Flash Memory. Has a 10 year total life expectancy. This means. You can not. Buy Backups And store Them. They have to come from Yamaha Freshly Charged and With the OS loaded.

Joe wrote:
Did u turn down all Elements/parts except Part 8 Element 8? Doing so will make it absolutely clear if there are any dropouts as I described. Not doing this may make it hard to notice/hear the drop outs (if you're triggering and hearing the distorted mess of all the Init Waveforms playing together and not isolating things by turning everything else down). Remembering that you have to turn them down with the faders, not mute/solo anything in order to properly test it.

As I said before, the drop out can be heard and seen on the screen because the volume meter stops working, indicating that the part doesn't produce a sound any more. Of course, I turned the volume down, otherwise a nasty overload would appear.
However, I was able to play two notes at once, I pressed c3 and e3 at the same time and no drop out appeared. A drop out appeared when I tried to play the next two notes. As I described, I guess that in that case the new notes stepped into the release tail of the previously pressed notes, so the 128 polyphony was exceeded.

The most simple test IMHO is to have 8 active parts with 8 active elements. If pressing two notes at the same time doesn't produce a cut off, the keyboard works according to its specs.

(deleted double post)

Sladjan wrote:
The most simple test IMHO is to have 8 active parts with 8 active elements. If pressing two notes at the same time doesn't produce a cut off, the keyboard works according to its specs.

Yes that is the test I described above. But it doesn't isolate the potential problematic Elements and therefore the only thing added to your most simple test is to turn down all other Elements besides Part 8 Element 8 and work backwards from there. Because this truly isolates the potential drop out which could be hidden from ears (and eyes) if other Elements are turned up and sounding/working within that Part (we don't have a meter view for the Part's Elements, only the Parts).

So far we've had 3 reported Montages that don't do what they should, and one (yours Sladjan) that apparently can, although I'd really like you to follow the steps exactly (turning down all Elements besides Part 8 Element 8) to really know for sure. (Your comments/responses/details given suggest that you haven't done this part of the test).

Anybody else?

If you don't want to (or can't) set up the test as described please follow the below steps:

1) download attached Performance "POLYPHONY_TEST.X7B".
2) load it onto your Montage via Montage Connect app.
3) play two notes at the same time on your Montage.
4) let us know if you can hear the two notes or if one drops out.

Ok.
I did the test again.

I selected the init performance, turned the reverb and master eq off.
In the first init. part I set the volume (level) of all elements to zero (0).

I copied the first part up to the eighth part. On the eight part I set the level of the 8th element to 127 so I could hear the init. piano sound.

Result:
In that way I was able to produce only one monophonic sound. I would still expect to hear two voices but I heard just one.
However, when I turned the level up of any element in part 1 to 7, I would hear two voices at once.

Maybe it has something to do how the keyboard handles polyphony. I don't know and it doesn't seem logical. However, it doesn't impact me because this test worked with 63 elements which level is set to zero and that is a performance I will certainly not use in my musical work.

Ok, so 4 out of 4 tests so far say we don't have 128 polyphony.

Sladjan wrote:
However, when I turned the level up of any element in part 1 to 7, I would hear two voices at once.

In the above (and attached) test, I only get two notes sounding from Part 1-6 (and with that slight delay between the two of them as mentioned previously). Part 7 behaves like Part 8 (only one note sounds) for me on the two Montages I've tested. Your result suggests that there are differences between Montages regarding polyphony.

Sladjan wrote:
However, it doesn't impact me because this test worked with 63 elements which level is set to zero and that is a performance I will certainly not use in my musical work.

Well this is a polyphony test, not a musical one. However, I am working with triggering 64 Elements at a time and making some very musical creations. At this stage however, it can only be monophonic and not duophonic if I want to be able to dive into the territory of the higher numbered Parts. Not only that, I also have to make sure I be careful that I don't play notes that are higher than X because this also makes them drop out. Which is, in fact, what made me start this thread and ask questions about the true polyphony of the Montage.

Whatever the case is with the instrument, whatever its actual polyphony, whatever it can actually do is what I'll work with and it'll be more than enough to do wondrous things with. (I absolutely love the Montage). But I'm here to ask what the real deal is with the polyphony because I was confused and disappointed to not be able to actually achieve 128 polyphony when I set out to make use of it in a creative (and musical) way.

@Bad Mister, can you do the above test and let us know what happens on your Montage when you try it? Or if there is some fault with the test, something I am missing, to let me/us know? I am very happy to be proven wrong and to be shown the right way. Can we have some input from you or anyone at Yamaha?

Hello, I just made the test on my Montage 8 and I'm unable to play two notes at the same time!