Check your various water-lines (resource utilization).

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/sampling-instruments-from-another-keyboard-with-samplerobot-and-use-them-in-the-yamaha-montage#reply-17594

If you go to touchscreen menu "Contents" -> "Data Utility" from pressing the [UTILITY] button, then touch "Performance" You will see along the top, next to "Performance" a box "User Perform" then next line XX/640. This shows how many (XX) out of 640 user performances you have used.

Screenshots and article here: https://yamahasynth.com/resources/user-and-library

You get another 8 sets of performances (8x640) stored as library 1-8. This is read-only memory which you "install" X7L files to a library location.

Sticking with the [UTILITY] "Contents" -> "Data Utility" menu, if you touch the "> Montage" square (grey box) on the touchscreen, you can select a different area. Press "Library" and you will see the library utilization (X/8) where X=number of libraries installed out of max 8.

... press "Song" and you see you get 64 maximum of these (which can be recorded using the recorder).

... press "Waveform" and you see the amount of memory used (xxMB or GB/1.8GB)

... press "Motion Seq", then "User" and you can see you get to save up to 256 user motion sequences - (XX/256 shown where XX=number of slots used)

... press "Arp" and you can see your user arp utilization (XX/256 where XX is number of slots used out of max 256).

Hello Jason, thank you! I decided to initialise the entire User area on the grounds that everything had been copied to the USB anyway, and that went fine. Not a User file to be found! Then I repeated the loading of my Library with no problems, all 293 Pfs arriving in their respective Categories. These I then converted to User files ready for adding to the Category Libraries. No problems.

I loaded the first Category Library (Piano) and it appeared correctly in the 'Bank' listing, with the correct five Pfs therein. I then went to convert these to User files for the purpose of adding them to those already there. Major Problem. Selected the Library, and a Pf within it, then went through the 'HOME' - 'UTILITY' - 'Contents' - 'Library Import' routine, and selected the Library that appeared correctly ... but what came up was far from correct - not the five Pfs I expected to see - but ALL 560 I had loaded into the 16 Categories. I cannot begin to understand this. Is this supposed to happen? I was under the impression that each Category can be saved and re-loaded individually, but although they appeared to save alright, they seem to all load en masse. Help! Weeks of work are under threat - I can't believe it!

Assuming you have v1.50+ when you've accomplished weeks of work - periodically save off an X7A file before and after the library shuffle. The X7A will assure you can go back to any point in time should you need to.

Hello Jason, well yes, I am running v1.51.1 and do have an X7A file I took several days ago, but my real question is - should Montage save and load individual Categories? I'm trying to understand what happened, and can't believe it is intentional. So it must be something I've done, or not done? A procedural error or something like that? This is the absolutely vital question - if, for some reason, it is not possible to save and load individual Categories, my entire concept of using Montage is in ruins.

I'm not at Montage at the moment, but I also noticed that many (not all) of the Pfs were in their original form insofar as their names were concerned - I had modified large numbers of them to remove pre-fixes and suffixes which were irrelevant to me, and they're all back! I don't know about minor tweaks, like volume especially, but I would think they've all gone too. And yes, every single one was properly overwritten and stored - yet at the same time, many of my own names are also in the mix, so it seems to be a sort of hybrid collection.

I'm not at your keyboard - and have described before a disconnect that can happen when someone conveying a problem may not grasp the fundamentals enough as the ability to describe what's going on is proportional to one's understanding of the system.

However, I'll take a guess.

Perhaps when you only saw 5 performances - thinking this was all you loaded into a library - you were really looking at the result of search filtering. If you filter by category, you'll only see what's in that category. But this does not mean that all that's contained within a storage area is what you see on the screen. It just means if you cover up everything else (not a part of the category filter) - then the remaining is what you see.

When you load a library file (X7L), meaning to take an X7L from your USB drive connected to the USB device port and "burn" that data into read-only memory - you cannot selectively load parts into the library area. It will load everything stored in the library file. Maybe you know this - and this isn't where the problem is yet.

When you import performances from a library to the user area you have the choice of importing only performances you've "checked" (marked for import). This is one way to end up with a tidy user area with only what you want - or you could import the whole thing (all performances in the library) then manually clean up the user area yourself using the UTILITY method you've described to someone else.

After you've setup your user performances so all that's in the user performances are the few performances that were in the library (500+), check to see that there is really just a short list of your new performances by [CATEGORY SEARCH], set Bank=User (not All), set Main category to All and Sub Category to All - and you should only see the short list (maybe a few pages - depends on how many you're keeping) of performances you want to keep. When the user area is cleaned up - you're not done yet. The batter is "on deck" but not yet at the plate.

Last, SAVE a library file to your USB stick. This will turn everything in your user area (what you checked above with [CATEGORY SEARCH]) as a new X7L file. Name the file something you can recognize as the slimmed down version of what was previously in the larger library file.

Once you finally pear down a library file that started with 500+ performances, you can later load your newly created library file that has less performances. Maybe keep the large library for safe keeping if your needs ever change and you need something you've tossed aside.

Hello Jason - I'm sorry, but I'm not making myself clear! My question is - can I save a single 'Category' (say Piano) as a Library file? That's all I want to do. I don't want the other 15 as well, which is what is happening when I try to save JUST the Pfs in the 'Piano' Category.

What I am doing is select the 'User' file in Bank select - then tap 'Piano' in the Category section and 'All' in the Sub section - select a Pf, then press 'UTILITY' - 'Contents' - 'Store/Save' - then select 'Library File' under Content Type - then tap 'the box 'Save as New File'.

When I do that, it saves all 16 Categories as one Library to USB - NOT just the 'Piano' category. So what am I doing wrong, please? Or is that what is supposed to happen? I will be dumbfounded if it is!

You made yourself pretty clear. When you filtered by category - you're filtering a list. When you save a library - you save all performances in the user area no matter what you previously filtered. This was what I had gathered.

When at the user performance level - you're going to have to delete performances from the user area in order to prevent them from being saved as a library.

This would be easier with a librarian (some PC or MAC or iOS or Android based app that manages assembling performances into libraries or user files) - but it doesn't exist yet.

I guess Rod is now dumbfounded :p

This is "what is supposed to happen".

But I 100% agree with you that you should be able to save whatever you select to save from your USER section as a Library. Instead of how it currently works where >everything< is saved.

As far as making Library files on the Montage goes, it is a very annoying workflow and would be much more a joy to use and much more practical to use if it could save only files as a Library.

The current system makes it incredibly difficult to organise your work into Libraries unless you focus on one thing only at a time with the Montage. Clear out your schedule and spend all your time doing that only without anything else.

The impression I'm getting from Yamaha is that Libraries can contain so many patches and that this is a good thing. But all it seems to do is make it harder to organise your work.

Montage is not well organised for organising your own patch designs with your own waveforms etc. Of course it works, and I know how to do it, but it requires that you either don't organise your work at all and save a whole bunch of random unrelated things (ie everything)... or..... you clear out everything to work on only one thing at a time.

It is not a very practical solution considering the amount of time it takes to load, save, import, delete, Libraries and User files. It inhibits what could be a much more streamlined workflow if Montage users could, using the synth, save Library files to their USB stick that contain only Performances and Waveforms etc (all other Library data) that is selected to be saved.

Please consider this strongly and understand the benefits if you are reading this and you have any say in future development of the Montage.

Joe

A possible workaround would be to take all the performances you want to keep in the user area - and put them at the top of the "Name" sorted list by prefixing the current performance name with "00". A performance called "My fav piano" would be renamed "00My fav piano". After naming what you want to keep ...

0 ) Save what you need to (anything you want to keep - user file, all file, etc)

1 ) [UTILITY] "Contents" -> "Data Utility", > Montage > Performance, press the "Job" switch

2) Sort by name - all the performances you want to keep prefixed with 00 will be at the top. Don't delete those

3) Delete all others, selecting those now they are sorted past the ones you want to keep

4) Save as a library

The previous suggestion to prefix user performances with a category code like "JGP Myfav piano" (Jackie Gleason saving something using "P" after JG as a category for acoustic piano) would work for this "save by category" desire since all user performances of the same category would be bunched together when sorting by name making selection in the above 0-4 suggestion also work except use the initial+category ("JGP", for example) prefix instead of 00 to make selecting which performances to delete easier.

There are a few extra steps involved to manage some lack of elegance in the filesystem interface.

And then you have to load all your patches back in to save the next library file. This takes timeeeeeee. So much time.

It is incredibly inelegant I'm sad to say.

Hello Joe and Jason - OK, I'm not only dumbfounded, but my flabber is totally ghasted as well. How could such an experienced and competent company like Yamaha be so short-sighted? It is truly astonishing, and I hope that the very next update will include a change so that only what is selected is saved as a Library. As you say Joe, it destroys workflow altogether, loading and converting and deleting and just waiting ... like you and no doubt others, I've worked out a workaround which is slow and cumbersome, and doesn't do the job nearly as well as a simple Library save and load would do. My estimation of Montage has dropped several points, just as I thought I was getting to grips with it in its true form as a sound synthesiser. I outlined my plan over a month ago, and nobody told me I couldn't do it! Maybe we're all just finding out as we go along! But I freely admit some learn much faster than others!

Jason, I've tried your suggestion, and whereas it can be made to work, it's even more trouble than what I'm doing, unhappily. I've felt all along that a small number of huge libraries is much less use than a large number of small libraries - at least to me and those like me - so I'll pin my faith to a change coming along - simply making a Library out of ONLY what is selected will do, actually, as the USB makes a good store - even better if it was directly accessible as a store ... but we've been there ...

A related problem is that I mix sounds a hundred different ways - most are discarded immediately(!) but a fair few make it to the next stage. Now I have 'full' libraries there's nowhere for them to go, I find. I'll have to scale back from the 630 I was allowing, which have to be in the User area and not in the Library because I can't edit Library files. This does seem odd for a synthesiser. Plus because some sounds I want are in a different Library ... you wouldn't believe the rigmarole to fish out a sound or two ...

Apart from all that, it's a nice day ... stay well ...

Rod wrote:

Hello Joe and Jason - OK, I'm not only dumbfounded, but my flabber is totally ghasted as well. How could such an experienced and competent company like Yamaha be so short-sighted? It is truly astonishing, and I hope that the very next update will include a change so that only what is selected is saved as a Library. As you say Joe, it destroys workflow altogether, loading and converting and deleting and just waiting ... like you and no doubt others, I've worked out a workaround which is slow and cumbersome, and doesn't do the job nearly as well as a simple Library save and load would do. My estimation of Montage has dropped several points, just as I thought I was getting to grips with it in its true form as a sound synthesiser. I outlined my plan over a month ago, and nobody told me I couldn't do it! Maybe we're all just finding out as we go along! But I freely admit some learn much faster than others!

Yes I am learning too. To master, tame and control this chaos beast of a thing!

EDIT: Thanks to the help of Bad Mister and this fine forum and primarily just spending time with the synth. 🙂

(I think valuable feedback about possible improvements (if they're easy enough to achieve) should be put forward where they exist because the chaos beast doesn't end with the Montage but extends to the company in the current process of thinking about and refining their product after it has hit the shelves and people have used it for a while).

Rod wrote:
I've felt all along that a small number of huge libraries is much less use than a large number of small libraries - at least to me and those like me - so I'll pin my faith to a change coming along - simply making a Library out of ONLY what is selected will do, actually, as the USB makes a good store - even better if it was directly accessible as a store ... but we've been there ...

Totally agree.

Rod wrote:
A related problem is that I mix sounds a hundred different ways - most are discarded immediately(!) but a fair few make it to the next stage. Now I have 'full' libraries there's nowhere for them to go, I find. I'll have to scale back from the 630 I was allowing, which have to be in the User area and not in the Library because I can't edit Library files. This does seem odd for a synthesiser. Plus because some sounds I want are in a different Library ... you wouldn't believe the rigmarole to fish out a sound or two ...

Apart from all that, it's a nice day ... stay well ...

Here's cheers