Thanks for taking the time to reply, I am genuinely interested, but accept Yamaha may never wish to answer it publicly, why the marketing spin on the DX7 where your FM start point is much further up the food chain. I.e. you have far more heritage to lean on than just the DX7

If you remember the DX7 and DX FM, you're probably at least in your late forties, that's a reality. And while the vast majority of folks who buy pro synthesizers are (at least) that age, it is imperative to talk about the DX7 for those who were not alive or who were alive but just not synth-aware at the time. So that's why you have to 'talk' about it. It was a digital synthesis format that pre-dates even samples...

It comes as a shock to many that the DX7 was 33 years ago. I'm sure you remember. But if you are now just in your 20's or 30's perhaps, you've only heard rumors about how it sold almost half a million units worldwide, and how it changed everything.... but that it was "hard to program" or that six operators are better than four and eight are better than six, without actually knowing what an Operator is... (The "it's like an oscillator only different" explanation ...)

It is this and a score of other issues that need to be addressed, and readdressed... (Perhaps not for you or me, but certainly for a new generation).

Back in the day
It occurred to me that when I was first demonstrating DX7s to potential first time synth buyers back in 1983, I was showing many musicians a "menu driven" interface for the very first time! The DX7 was the first synth I remember with a screen that was more than stick figures of numbers. In 1983: very few musicians used or even owned a computer at the time - 4-track cassette units were the typical "home studio" (all hail the PortaStudio!)

The reputation of "hard to use" mostly comes from the fact that, unlike preset analog synths at the same time which allowed for guessing (often mistaken for being 'intuitive') - where if you didn't really know or like what a parameter knob did, you could move it and just put it back. Not only did one need to get used to a menu driven interface, it required you know what you wanted to change.

Today it's Child's Play
Fast forward 33 years, you'd be hard pressed to find a musician now who has not operated a "menu driven" interface. Everyone can operate a cash machine, today ... I know I was showing menus to some folks for the first time in that DX7 screen. What was deemed "rocket science" in 1983 is literally, "child's play" today. I've watched 3 year olds navigate software on a tablet device. It is literally child's play now. It was not in 1983. I'd have an easier time teaching FM to third graders now, than I did college students back then. (I don't think that's an exaggeration, do you?)
Accessing the parameters was a huge stumbling block for many back then.

Yes, there is still a lot of Math...
Now, working the DX FM was not simply working the menu driven parameters, but what I'm saying is... I saw that fact prevent many users from ever exploring the possibilities any deeper. And while many of us are confident that the "joy of FM" programming will find a new audience (I'm certain it will), we also recognize that many musicians love to amass scores and scores of pre-made libraries ('just in case'). And since the fundamental original engine is the archetype - it naturally has the broadest possible compatibility potential. A program is being written to do all the conversions necessary.

And combine the thousands of Motif ES/XS/XF with the tens of thousands of DX7 FM sounds, these can be used as basic building blocks for those who are not deep synth programmers. For those who do not get into actually "how" the synth makes sound... But wish to start with building blocks that already have some expertise built-in. If all you do is take pre-made sounds and apply the Motion Control Synth Engine features, that's one level of programming on this synth.

I'm not sure what to call them, but there are factory setups in Montage that are complete interactive musical compositions. They are like this bottled potential energy that you turn into kinetic energy by playing a single chord or note! Different rhythmic interactions are setup, and as the 'player' you set these components in motion in a variety of ways. And you shape the outcome via the array of controllers. It's real time, it's performance art, it's impossible to repeat it exactly the same ever again, it's real time. It's not for everyone but you owe it to yourself to explore the possibilities.

Now, it is one thing to sit down and 'perform' (interact) with these as-they-are, but when you begin to explore the potential by putting your own creative energy into creating these rhythmic interaction compositions/constructions, that's when you know... Or begin to see the Montage potential.

I see Montage as the first of a new class of synthesizer. My esteemed co-worker Nate, put it like this... For those who can already swim, get out your scuba gear, you can dive very deep. But if you are new to all of this and only want to snorkel (stay near the surface) you can thoroughly enjoy the experience.

And it's still a creative enjoyable experience.

Tone Wheel Organ constructions
For example, if in your head you limit your thinking in building a tone wheel organ sound to just the AWM2 sample of a specific drawbar, or even if you know that an FM sine wave could easily approximate a tone wheel (simply another type of sine wave generator), you've only looked at the surface of what Montage is constructed to allow.

Each FM-X Part has eight Operators, as many as eight FM-X Parts can make up a "Keyboard Controlled" Performance. So if you think you are limited to eight drawbars, you're still missing a big portion of the Montage picture. Each Part could be a single component in building the entire sound!

Building a B3 sound could use a combination of AWM2 samples and FM-X operators... Things like "leakage" and "key clicks" certainly the domain of the audio sample; while the fundamental tones can be built with (new) and fascinating character with just FM-X or by combing AWM2+FM-X. (Think 64 components).

(There's an example where they use the equivalent of an entire Motif XF Voice (where 8 Elements are available) to construct a detailed noise component). The detailed Rhodes e.piano "noise" is priceless. If you've ever played a Suitcase73 with the amplifier section off you can't help but laugh out loud when you recall this "component". What it does when mixed in with the body of the sound not only makes it sound right, it makes it "feel right".

The fact that a playable (8 Part) Performance can be a TX816 built from 8-Operator modules, should not be lost, forgotten, or minimized. There are far more FM data available in DX7 format, than any of the other iterations... so it makes sense to concentrate focus starting there for conversions. The new engine will immediately improve them. (I think a tutorial series on "two-operator" programming is in order, because every one of those sounds will have two yet unused Operators!)

Sum it up, Phil
We can't wait to set this beast free. Everything to everyone? Probably not, nothing ever is.. But there are synths before Montage, and there are going to be synth after this point in time, but this one is going to mark a shift in direction.

Being able to pull off musical articulations in a computer with a massive library and a mouse, is a legitimate way to work (especially in music-for-hire situations) but a synth that deals with being able to actually "perform" advanced articulations, as a real time thing, is where this instrument is going... "Let's take it to the stage..."

Sorry, I run on ... But just wanted to give some additional real world reaction based on sitting with this new synth for a few months now. Thanks for the question. Bear with the DX7 references/spin, but rest assured this isn't your grand dad's synth 🙂 (ouch!)

I'm old enough to remember the launch of the DX7 and reading the brochures with great excitement. I'd still love to own a DX1 but the Montage 8 might have to suffice - even though it lacks polyphonic aftertouch. 🙂

However, a lot of people forget that the DX7 also launched a generation of synthesizers that had close to impenetrable user interfaces. Even today, we still find many synths (including some from Yamaha) that are soul destroying to programme so I am hoping that the display on the Montage makes this process a lot easier otherwise we might have just another 'rompler' on our hands. That would be a real shame.

M

My point was, yes, menu driven musical instruments were new to everyone in 1983. Menu driven interfaces are mostly child's play today. One HUGE stumbling block has been removed through familiarity and passage of time.

Programming is an art. Anyone can do it, but only a few can do it really well. It's like Audio Mixing. That is true whether you are dealing with analog or digital gear.

More people think they can program analog because they have a finite set of parameters that they can experiment with and you can just freely experiment (once you know and get down the basics) ... Now that the menu-driven interface isn't NEW, perhaps the basics will be easier to get down. In FM, for example, knowing how to build a Sawtooth wave, or build a Square or Pulse wave, is a fundamental... On an analog synth you simply select it. But once you can construct the basic wave shapes, you're on your way.

Programming on any synth is a matter of 'focused' experimentation... And finding a level of interacting that doesn't hurt your head. I'm confident that with all the different levels of programming available on Montage, many will find their own level of satisfaction.

natalini
Online
MICROSCALE IMPLEMENTATION SAME THAN THE XF? NO PERFORMANCE LEVEL.......
have we to use multiple copy of the same voice for can play it in different temperament ? as this function in the xf is only implemented in voice parmeter, not in performance mode. can not store a perf with its own scales tuning setting? that is so illogical. i hope that will be not the case..

Bangleos - I just read your 3 articles (extremely informative/exciting) and also read the keyboard magazine review today. I would like to very briefly describe my current Motif usage, then ask a few questions as I contemplate a Montage in my future . . .

I operate a full-time jingle house with Cubase 8, and a Motif XS 6, making extensive use of audio routing and channel grouping with the mLan/Firewire.

Additionally with this rig, I prepare MIDI sequences of pop tunes, and/or "jam" tunes which I then load into my Motif XF6, (usually the pattern sequencer) - - which is only used in a wide variety of live gigs.

There is a variety of reasons why I'll eventually own a Montage . . (I can afford it, it looks like a riot, more access to sounds, etc.)

Here are some questions:

- - Is there a VST Editor for the Montage that I can use with Cubase?

- - If yes, and I were to replace the Motif XS6 with a Montage, would the VST Editor be reasonably backward compatible with the 100s of past jingle projects I've produced the last several years?

- - Could I use BOTH my Motif XS6 (mLAN / FIREWIRE) - - And a new Montage (USB interface) with Cubase simultaneosly? (overkill, I know, but it sounds like a party, eh?LOL)

Thanks in advance for any/all input. - Pete Radd

To some degree but, not often, the montage's feature set is described as having a vastly or greatly improved AWM2 engine!
Really? It's not AWM3 or other. In fact Yamaha is often describing Montage's AWM2 engine as the same one that we all know. The only difference Yamaha has noted , is that there is more memory of sounds, waveform samples, etc. This fact does not by default change the synth engine simply because it has more memory.
So, if I am incorrect, please state clearly what exactly has changed regarding AWM2, I havent heard even the the remotest wording to anything different re AWM2 except EFX processor and insert efx but those are not the AMP,FILT ENV, LFO etc, etc which comprise the actual synth engine

@ Phil,
AWM2, for the pure geeky technical folks, is Yamaha's proprietary method of storing and retrieving audio (sampled) data. This technology was introduced close to 29 years ago - back in the first decade of audio sampling as a technology. This is not AWM3(sic) because the fundamental storage and retrieval of audio has not changed. (It's not broke, no need to fix it!) What certainly has changed is the synth engine. So simply put: the method of storing audio and the method of retrieving audio has not changed; what has changed is the synth engine ... Speed of the EGs, for example, routing functions of the controllers, and certainly the program architecture.

By "breaking open" the old Voice architecture which was limited to 8 Elements, the implementation of AWM2 in Montage allows a Normal program to access more Elements... The more Elements you have realtime access to, the more musical gestures you have access to during a realtime performance. Instead of just having arco (bowed) strings available, Expanded Articulation Control (XA CONTROL), introduced in 2007 on the Motif XS, allows you to introduce different string "gestures" by how you play or by activating a controller... You can instantly switch to pizzicato (plucked) or spicato (quick bow), all within one sound.

The Motif (classic) and Motif ES did not have XA CONTROL, and both were AWM2, but XA CONTROL certainly was something new and different from what you could accomplish previously. The storage and retrieval of the sampled audio did not change, but what you could do with it changed dramatically. Well, take that and multiply it by a huge factor with Montage.

The ability to smoothly morph between ensemble size, room size, listening position, etc., as well as changing to a variety of articulations is new, (not a change in the storage or retrieval of the sampled audio, but more what can be done with it post that retrieval). AWM2 is, contrary to popular belief, not a marketing term that is incremented to impress the 'technically unwashed' but more a registered, proprietary method of handling sampled audio in a musical instrument.

Back to breaking open the Voice architecture: the "CFX Concert", as an example, is a meticulously sampled acoustic piano sound with eighteen Elements... Assembled so that it speaks well at the inner levels of velocity... Instead of just a triple strike (soft, medium, loud) which has been fairly standard in previous Motif-series sample playback engines, the eighteen Elements here allow more behavior in the way it responds.

It does not mean this piano is appropriate in all situation, or that you will even like it as your favorite, but what it definitely does is open the door to a new level of detail that can be explored... Calling this piano up and beating out a Jerry Lee Lewis piano assault would miss the subtleties of how it speaks at low velocities... But performing a solo rubato introduction on-stage leading the band into a delicate ballad, well, this might be your go-to piano.

The "Seattle Section" string Performance is made from seven Parts...
3 Elements velocity switching Violin section
3 Elements velocity switching Violin section
3 Elements velocity switching Viola section
3 Elements velocity switching Cello section
3 Elements velocity switching Contra Bass
4 Elements XA Controlled composite string section and spicato bow stroke articulation
3 Element solo strings: a solo violin, a solo viola, a solo cello

Performing this Seattle Section using the Super Knob (assigned to an FC7 pedal so you can keep your hands on the keyboard) allows the live performer the kind of control over their performance that until now required a huge gigabyte sample library, a mouse, and the patience of Job (as you manually event-edit in your articulations). And for music-for-hire, sure, you do that, because the results are often awesome, but say, you're on stage, the band needs YOU to pull off a convincing string section performance with your synth, in real time... That's where you need MONTAGE!

That's the big deal about this instrument - realtime. And what's new about this implementation of AWM2, thanks for the question. Hope that helps and is clear enough.

@Peter

Here are some questions:

- - Is there a VST Editor for the Montage that I can use with Cubase?

There is a VST/AU Editor in the works. It probably will not be available until Summer time. Until that time, if you are using Cubase Pro 8 (or any of the top of the line versions of Cubase) you can address it using VST routing by creating an EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT. You can expect a tutorial here on YAMAHASYNTH that will step you through setting this up until the VST Editor is completed and released.

Those using just Cubase AI, will need to wait for the VST Editor to take advantage of advanced routing.

- - If yes, and I were to replace the Motif XS6 with a Montage, would the VST Editor be reasonably backward compatible with the 100s of past jingle projects I've produced the last several years?

One would assume so... But the old saying about "assuming" comes to mind. Until we actually see it, we cannot give you a definitive answer. However, Motif XS data can be converted and loaded to Montage, that much is certain. The devil, as they say, will be in the details. The SoundBrowser uses bulk dumps to move data, I seriously doubt you will simply be able to "fool" the Montage by bulking in the data, it will need to converted offline - using the XS Editor. Again, we do not have all the details quite yet.

- - Could I use BOTH my Motif XS6 (mLAN / FIREWIRE) - - And a new Montage (USB interface) with Cubase simultaneosly? (overkill, I know, but it sounds like a party, eh?LOL)

16 + 32 = 48 inputs... Sure, why not... You will need to use a Mac, you will need to build an Aggregate Audio Device... Not sure how your computer will like all of that simultaneously... But in theory, absolutely. I've recorded both FW and USB audio simultaneously to a Mac.

Giving your computer a bit of a break, Cubase does (always has) allow you to "hot swap" drivers mid-session. So switching between them should not be an issue, you will not have to close or power down anything. Yamaha Steinberg FW audio and Midi supports hot swapping, so does the Yamaha Steinberg USB audio/Midi.

Hope that helps. It's a bit early... On the VST/AU Editor... As we get closer we'll have more info on a projected date for the Editor and other Montage utilities. Check back here for news and details... Thanks for the questions.

Thanks for the answers and help BM. (btw - I'm "raddtunes" from the previous forum).

Your answer regarding using both drivers brings up one other question. Using a Mac is not an option for me, but:

On my Windows machine, could I use my current Motif XS6 (mLAN/firewire), and the Montage (USB) together in Cubase 8.5, but not use the USB for audio with the Montage - - just MIDI. I'm sure it would sound equally awesome to just route the analog stereo mix out of the Montage into the input of the Motif XS6 and get great results.

(I'm aware that the Montage, or any MIDI keyboard could be addressed from the Motif XS6 MIDI out in my rig, but I prefer the USB for MIDI if possible for obvious reasons).