The short answer is, yes. The functions of the Montage can be triggered via MIDI, be it the Motif XF or a computer DAW. Selecting a Scene (which can recall both a Motion Sequence and/or an Arpeggio), moving the Super Knob, or any of Montage's controls can be documented and/or automated through MIDI.

Excellent. Thanks a lot:)

This is a great question I hope it can be expanded on even more about
How to get this to work (workflow).
My Motif XF 8 has been sitting next to my Montage 6 very humbly and gracefully .
I just wonder could the two together be some type of super set up ?
One workflow that comes to mind is
1. Record midi data into Motif sequencer send to Montage
2.Record results into Montage performance recorder .
3. Send the recorded performance to Cubase by Montage Connect for mix and master etc ....
What do you think ?
Match made in heaven or overkill ?
Just looking for possibilities and perspective for those of us who own both beast.

What are the pros and cons of using the motif XF sequencer vs Cubase ?
If I use the Motif sequencer would that allow me to not have to use Rec to daw mode on the Montage making the super knob and scenes always active and available instead of needing a midi loop back for them to work .
How would this work

There is also nothing preventing you from using Montage with Local Control = ON while connected to a DAW if you perceive some problem, in your workflow, with having the DAW feed back MIDI to complete the setting update on Montage. Depends on what you're trying to accomplish - the setups are flexible.

One benefit may be familiarity - if you know the ins/outs of Motif XF - what it does with MIDI - how to interface external devices - etc. Maybe Cubase would have some learning curve. The flexibility and general GUI interface is better with Cubase since you have a mouse, keyboard, and standard OS.

Motif XF has all the "left out" pieces (sampler, sequencer) from Montage - so it's complementary in that regard. In-hardware sampling and sequencing if you really must eschew a computer. However, the weight/bulk of the Motif XF is much more than a laptop if these were the only reason to keep a Motif XF around.

Since there is so much overlap between the two boards' samples - it may not be the most complementary setup. For the enhanced dynamic granularity, modeling, and different engine - a CP series stage piano may be more complementary. Probably even more complementary would be a different manufacturer's keyboard due to the uncommon sample set or synthesis techniques. Downside there is cost.

Hi Jason, thanks for your reply.

It seems like Montage is designed to work with a DAW, but in my case I use external mixers and rack gear before tracking into a DAW. I do most of the writing and production OTB. After reading the synth parameter pdf it is still unclear to me how one would trigger scenes, sequenced from the Motif. Since scenes can be layers of sound, those sounds would have to be all on one MIDI channel on the Montage to be sequenced on a track by track basis on the Motif. If someone could chime in and describe the MIDI implementation on Montage in more detail it would really help with workflow decisions.

The bottom line is: some people would like to create a performance on the Montage, then sequence the scenes of that performance from the Motif and build songs by arranging scenes - triggered by the Motif sequencer.
And also, have the Motif automate the parameter changes by getting those changes tracked into a sequence on the Motif.

Ideally, you would press play on the Motif and it would play back the scenes from a performance in the order you had sequenced them, as well as the Superknob movements.

I'm hoping someone has tried this or will try this.

First, maybe we should clear up what a Scene is... as this will be necessary for you to conclude what it can and cannot do. It is a "snapshot" type memory that can recall both synth and mix settings.

Each Scene, there are eight available, has an ON/OFF switch for each of the following functions:
Arp - the currently active Arp 1-8, if the main ArpSw is active
MS - the currently active Motion Seq, if the main MS Sw is active
Super Knob - the current position of the Super Knob
Mixing 1 - RevSend, VarSend, Dry Level, Pan, Volume
Mixing 2 - Cutoff, Resonance, FEG Depth, Mute
AEG - Attack, Decay, Sustain Release of the amplifier
Arp/MS FX 1/2 - offset to feel of Arps and Motion Sequences

The currently selected Scene can be documented on MIDI CH 1 either as a System Exclusive message or a CC (Control Change) message. Think of it as an automated event that can be recalled at any moment, either by physically pressing a Scene button, or by an event placed in your sequence data.

The problem with attempting to design a personal workflow with a piece of gear you have not interfaced with is you cannot be sure if what you envision is even possible or more importantly is even a useful workflow.

The bottom line is: some people would like to create a performance on the Montage, then sequence the scenes of that performance from the Motif and build songs by arranging scenes - triggered by the Motif sequencer.

I think those people are thinking that without an understanding of how Montage actually functions. You don't need a Motif to trigger Montage Scenes. Sure you could... but you may decide that the Motif XF sequencer might not serve you as you are thinking. Undoubtedly these people understand how the Motif XF works but perhaps have little to no experience with how the Montage works.

If I sound some what discouraging of the idea, I am only being cautious that you understand that the Motif XF type sequencer is not in the Montage because all of a sudden Yamaha "forgot" how to create a Pattern and Song sequencer, it's not there because the Recorder that is in Montage best serves (as hard as this may be to grok) what Montage does!

When you first posted the question it struck me as one of those questions that is a Frequently Asked Question... it ususally starts with a wish for the XF type sequencer in the Montage. (It inspired me to write an article, which I hope to post, because the subject does come up quite often). As I am attempting to point out, the one track, one Part, on one channel paradigm does not always fit the Montage. And that's the issue. It's not that you couldn't - you most certainly could make it work.

But: Say you want to use one of Montage string or brass ensemble sounds that occupy 4 or 5 MIDI Channels. The XF sequencer can't record that as MIDI, you'd need to record your Montage, in this case, as an audio sample using the XF's Integrated Sampler. Whether that is an anticipated part of your workflow, only you can know. Montage at times transmits on as many as eight channels.

Motif XF transmitted in the SEQUENCER modes on one channel at a time. Big difference, not often appreciated by those "people", particularly those who have not played and experienced this importance difference in the Montage.

Ahhhhhh, ok. Thanks for the explanation BM. So now that I know Scenes are snapshots of parameter setups, can 'motion sequences' recorded on the Montage be triggered by the Motif sequencer track by track as well as Superknob movements made throughout the motion sequence?

Since I own and use a Motif XF extensively, I was hoping to be able to arrange the Montage's motion sequences and Superknob movements on the Motif, since it's sequencer has editing options.

If the only way to arrange and edit your song is by DAW, that isn't a deal breaker for me, but it seems like an oversight since the Motif and Montage would seemingly make a great duo for music production, working seamlessly together.

can 'motion sequences' recorded on the Montage be triggered by the Motif sequencer track by track as well as Superknob movements made throughout the motion sequence?

Again the question is problematic because you are not appreciating the difference. If the Montage Scene is addressing multiple Parts, recording track-by-track is possible, but may not capture what you are thinking. Your playing three dimensional chess with two dimensional understanding (if I can exaggerate just a bit)! 🙂

If the only way to arrange your song is by DAW, that isn't a deal breaker for me, but it seems like an oversight since the Motif and Montage would seemingly make a great duo for music production, working seamlessly together

It's not the only way, and there is no oversight. And certainly no one was looking to make these two synthesizers work seamlessly together... why would that be a good thing? why would Yamaha make people own both? seems very unrealistic, even if it had some benefit for the company (not logical thinking to plan that way)...

I'll repeat: understand that the Motif XF type sequencer is not in the Montage because all of a sudden Yamaha "forgot" how to create a Pattern and Song sequencer, it's not there because the Recorder that is in Montage best serves (as hard as this may be to grok) what Montage does!

That said, I could design you a killer workflow using both the XF and Montage. There are definitely ways to use them both, but I don't want to promote unrealistic expectations. You can design your own workflow, but buy Montage because you find it a compelling music synthesizer. Not for it being a traditional Standalone workstation... it clearly is not. It is designed to work how it's target audience works... with a DAW. Even the on-board Recorder makes it easy to compose Montage Performances and literally drag n drop all of that into your favorite DAW. BAM! in one operation.

What I am trying to get across is once you build your own Performance, your understanding of the on-board Recorder comes into better focus. Once you've create your own Motion Sequence, with its multi dimensional/multi destination Control, boy do you appreciate how different Montage is and it all starts to fall into place.

BM, I appreciate the difference:) . I don't need another workstation, believe me. I understand Montage is a synth and for producers we need to be able to sequence and arrange/edit whatever we play. I am not looking to use the Montage as a workstation but I am looking to interface it with an external sequencer if possible. The first sequencer that came to mind was the Motif obviously. And what is wrong with making two products that work together? People buy two or three tools to get the job done from the same manufacturer all the time. There has never been a 'do it all' workstation or synth and there probably never will be. It's in a company's best interest to sell as many things as possible isn't it? Isn't that good business?

If the Montage Scene is addressing multiple Parts, recording track-by-track is possible, but may not capture what you are thinking. Your playing three dimensional chess with two dimensional understanding (if I can exaggerate just a bit)! 🙂

Ok, so can each part of a scene on Montage be assigned the same MIDI channel? Therefore when sequencing on the Motif Channel 1, track 1 would trigger Scene 1 with all of it's parts at once. Is that possible?

I'm still getting the Montage regardless. I already have it on order and I'm not changing my mind. I've heard enough, seen enough and have read enough to know it's a valuable addition to any producer's arsenal of weapons-including mine. It's a serious synth. I could care less about it not having a deep sequencer but I am just wondering how it will play with the Motif.

Guess I'll find out soon enough:)

And you're gonna love. Just wait, you'll see. I'm just concerned you go into it eyes wide open. I find myself designing sounds for the particular thing I need to accomplish... and because there are so many things you can automate- this becomes a part of the creative process. You'll see.