Hi, and if you go to Edit Part, Arpeggio, individual and you set an arpeggio if there is no one, does it change on Home view?

Posted by: Joel

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Hi, and if you go to Edit Part, Arpeggio, individual and you set an arpeggio if there is no one, does it change on Home view?

so it was that there were arpeggio in part 9/16 and made more than 8 arpeggio. But something is strange to me, I explain: I use arpeggio in this performance along part 1/8 but they show up in motion control/ arpeggio page in part 9/16 so in fact I had to disengage all arpeggio (in motion control/ arpeggio page) of part 1/8 but it should have be 9/16. This performance is intended to use only 1/8 part, I did not care about the  9/16 another part. Thanks Joel for help.

Working on a performance, adding a new part, I discover I cannot engage arpeggio in some part of this performance, only remain arpeggios part I programmed before? 

Arpeggios are configured for each part. So if you add a new INIT part it won't have any arpeggios configured - you have to add them.

If you add a part from an existing performance the part you add may not have any arps configured either - if not you have to add them.

If the part you add DOES have one, or more, arps then the way you trigger them depends on how those arps are configured. The arps may need to be triggered by pressing a key in a particular note range or with a particular velocity value.

There is a global 'Arp Select' setting which you, the user, can set from 1-8. But parts don't always have all 8 arps. If that setting is 7 and the part you added doesn't have an arp configured for slot 7 then there is no arp to trigger.

Check to see which arps (1-8), if any, the part you added has. See page 36 of the ops doc for how to check. 

By pressing the [QUICK EDIT] button to select SELECTED PART and then using the Tab
selection buttons to select the ARP/MS tab, you can then use Knobs 1 to 7 to change the
Arpeggios.
Modify the Arpeggios by turning the knobs and listening to the Arpeggio playback. Check the
names of the parameters assigned to Knobs 1 to 7 on the Sub display.
If you wish to fine-tune the settings, press the [PAGE JUMP] button to switch to the Main display
to continue editing.

Go to the 'Edit Part -> Arpeggio' display.

As Joel suggested use the 'Individual' tab to see which of the 1-8 arps, if any, the part has.

Then check the 'Advanced' screen to see what the current 'Arp Select' setting is.

Finally check the 'Common' screen to see what the 'Arp Note Limit' and 'Arp Vel Limit' settings are.

Post the info you found for ALL THREE of those checks and tell use which arp you are trying to 'engage' and how you are trying to engage it.

Also see Joel's video about how to search for arps

https://youtu.be/a2pfgd9tFgg?t=135

If you reread what you posted you will see that you haven't given us any of the specifics of what you are doing. The more info you provide the easier it is to help you.

so it was that there were arpeggio in part 9/16 and made more than 8 arpeggio.

Sorry - but I don't understand what you are saying.

Every part, 1-16, can have up to 8 arps configured. But only 8 arps (for 8 parts) can be active at any one time.

Parts 9-16 don't have keyboard control so you, the user, can't play them unless you actually select ONE of those parts. And then you will only be playing one part which can only play one arp.

Is there an external controller that is playing parts 9-16? If so the parts could be playing arps and those arps will count against the limit of 8.

I use arpeggio in this performance along part 1/8 but they show up in motion control/ arpeggio page in part 9/16

Please explain that - 1) what 'motion control/ arpeggio' page are you referring to? I don't see any such page on my M8X.

2) How can arps for parts 1/8 show up on a page for parts 9/16?

so in fact I had to disengage all arpeggio (in motion control/ arpeggio page) of part 1/8 but it should have be 9/16.

I'm afraid I don't understand that either.

This performance is intended to use only 1/8 part, I did not care about the  9/16 another part. Thanks Joel for help.

Then you might consider deleting parts 9-16 and saving the result as a new user performance. Then it won't be possible for parts 9-16 to interfere.

Posted by: Toby

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Working on a performance, adding a new part, I discover I cannot engage arpeggio in some part of this performance, only remain arpeggios part I programmed before? 

Arpeggios are configured for each part. So if you add a new INIT part it won't have any arpeggios configured - you have to add them.

If you add a part from an existing performance the part you add may not have any arps configured either - if not you have to add them.

If the part you add DOES have one, or more, arps then the way you trigger them depends on how those arps are configured. The arps may need to be triggered by pressing a key in a particular note range or with a particular velocity value.

There is a global 'Arp Select' setting which you, the user, can set from 1-8. But parts don't always have all 8 arps. If that setting is 7 and the part you added doesn't have an arp configured for slot 7 then there is no arp to trigger.

Check to see which arps (1-8), if any, the part you added has. See page 36 of the ops doc for how to check. 

By pressing the [QUICK EDIT] button to select SELECTED PART and then using the Tab
selection buttons to select the ARP/MS tab, you can then use Knobs 1 to 7 to change the
Arpeggios.
Modify the Arpeggios by turning the knobs and listening to the Arpeggio playback. Check the
names of the parameters assigned to Knobs 1 to 7 on the Sub display.
If you wish to fine-tune the settings, press the [PAGE JUMP] button to switch to the Main display
to continue editing.

Go to the 'Edit Part -> Arpeggio' display.

As Joel suggested use the 'Individual' tab to see which of the 1-8 arps, if any, the part has.

Then check the 'Advanced' screen to see what the current 'Arp Select' setting is.

Finally check the 'Common' screen to see what the 'Arp Note Limit' and 'Arp Vel Limit' settings are.

Post the info you found for ALL THREE of those checks and tell use which arp you are trying to 'engage' and how you are trying to engage it.

Also see Joel's video about how to search for arps

https://youtu.be/a2pfgd9tFgg?t=135

If you reread what you posted you will see that you haven't given us any of the specifics of what you are doing. The more info you provide the easier it is to help you.

hi Toby 

as you can see on the first attach photo, it was not possible to engage more arpeggio in this performance. And this because there were more arpeggio on parts 9/16. So my issue was solved but for that the strange thing is that in motion control/ arpeggio tab, arpeggio from Part1/8 show up in parts 9/16? You can see on photo.

as you can see on the first attach photo, it was not possible to engage more arpeggio in this performance.

Thanks for that photo - I apologize for wrongly assuming you were using a Montage M but the photo shows you are not. 

And this because there were more arpeggio on parts 9/16.

Ok - the photo shows an 'Arp' column that has ON/OFF switches for each part. If the switch is ON it means that part will participate in using arps. You can only have 8 parts participate. Each part can actually use 8 different arps depending on the 'Arp Select' value of 1-8.

the strange thing is that in motion control/ arpeggio tab, arpeggio from Part1/8 show up in parts 9/16? You can see on photo.

Please double-check that. What I see in the photo is that the cursor is on a button that currently says 'Part 9-16' but you haven't actually selected that button - you just moved the cursor to it.

I bet if you actually press that button with your finger two things will happen:

1. the text will change to 'Part 1-8'

2. the part list will change to parts 9-16

Check the graphic on p. 3 of the reference manual and it looks just like your image.

The below relates to the Montage M models only (p.234 of the ops doc):

The Montage M has changed that common Arp section. There is no 'Motion Control -> Arpeggio' screen - the info on the M's is on 'Edit Common -> Arp / MS -> Arp Overview' and there is new functionality for creating arp 'Groups' that can share the same arp settings.

Switches and other settings operate and change together for all parts in the same group.

The screen on the M has separate selections for 'Part 1-8' and 'Part 9-16' that makes it clearer which group you are working with.

Testing on my M8X shows that only * part switches can be set to ON at the same time. That limit has NOTHING to do with whether ANY of the parts actually assign or use any arps.

As far as I can tell if the switch is ON it means nothing more than 'this part MAY, at some point, use one or more arps'.

as you can see on the first attach photo, it was not possible to engage more arpeggio in this performance. And this because there were more arpeggio on parts 9/16. So my issue was solved but for that the strange thing is that in motion control/ arpeggio tab, arpeggio from Part1/8 show up in parts 9/16? You can see on photo.

This is been addressed, but I'll basically summarize the same things.   The screenshot you show lists arpeggios of Parts 1-8.  There's a button 9-16 that's there in case you wanted to display Parts 9-16.  It is not showing the current range of Parts displayed.

Any arpeggios in Parts 9-16, no matter how many arpeggios you have in use (there's a limit), are difficult to trigger since Parts 9-16 cannot simultaneously be triggered by the local keyboard and won't trigger at all if Parts 1-8 or no Parts are selected.  

Here's your picture upside-up since it was upside down for me ...

Any arpeggios in Parts 9-16, no matter how many arpeggios you have in use (there's a limit), are difficult to trigger since Parts 9-16 cannot simultaneously be triggered by the local keyboard and won't trigger at all if Parts 1-8 or no Parts are selected.  

But isn't that what the 'gotcha' is? It isn't a question of whether the arps in parts 9-16 can be, or will be, triggered.

It is the fact that 7 of the part arp switches are ON and the limit is 8. 

So with parts 9-16 in the configuration shown only 1 part from 1-8 can have its arp switch ON.

The question it raises for me is  why a setting of ON acts as a 'hard count' against the limit of 8. It is my understanding that the limit of 8 is more a limit on the simultaneous usage of arps. 

Why couldn't they allow the ON setting to mean 'it is ok to use this arp' with OFF being a way for the user to remove the arp from any possible use (similar to the element ON/OFF switch)? The software clearly knows how many arps are actually in use at any given time so I would think it could easily prevent the starting of a 9th arp no matter which of the other arps is actually being used.

This would sort of be an arp 'polyphony' limit. If conditions are such that a 9th arp should be started then the software could: 1) prevent the 9th arp from starting or 2) stop one of the currently executing arps and allow the new one to start.

Currently scenes can only remember the 'Arp Select' number. It would get really ugly, quickly, to add code to allow scene memory to alter the actual arp configuration for all 16 parts. 

Sounds like something for IdeaScale maybe. 

I could be wrong, but my take is that Daniel is not wanting to use Parts 9-16. 

I only commented about this case because if you want to use these Parts 9-16 with arps then triggering would be as limited as playing actual notes on these Parts for the same reasons.

I could be wrong, but my take is that Daniel is not wanting to use Parts 9-16. 

No - you are right - I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with your comment - I was just trying to add value.

That is why I said it is a 'gotcha' that the part Arp ON switches count towards the 8 limit whether you use the parts or not. Since he wasn't going to use an external controller he likely wasn't even thinking about parts 9-16 since he knew his keyboard playing wouldn't involve them.

The OS clearly knows if a currently unused part is about to be used - that is why, IMO, that would be the time for that new parts arp switch, if ON, to be checked against the limit of 8. What difference does it make how many part arp switches are ON if the parts aren't even being used?

if you want to use these Parts 9-16 with arps then triggering would be as limited as playing actual notes on these Parts for the same reasons.

So for the morph scenario it doesn't make sense for a user to intentionally configure arps for parts 9-16 since they won't get used anyway. I suppose a user could grab preset parts to use for morphing and those parts might have already have arps whose arp switches being ON would count towards the limit of 8. But the morph thing is really getting away from the core issue Daniel presented.

Sorry, I was confused how it display arpeggio part, feel myself quite silly. For the starting point, I did not think arpeggio part 9/16 could interfere and also I forget about the 8 limitation. I never care about the 9/16 and I  reached always the polyphony limitation with the 8 parts anyway. but  The 9/16 are there even if silenced. Thank you everybody. 😍 

Thank you for your feeback and Toby and Jason answers, great that the solution have been found to help you!

I just posted an IdeaScale suggestion to have the limit of 8 refer to the max number of ACTIVE arpeggios rather than the number of parts that have their 'Arp Switch' set to ON.

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/campaigns/289/stage/Ideate/ideas/unspecified

Support moved the 'allow 8 active arps' idea to ASSESSMENT.

 

The stage of this idea has changed from "Ideate" to "Assessment" : Idea: Allow 8 ACTIVE arps rather than just 8 arps with their 'Arp Switch' set to ON

 

Potentially this could be added to the Modx, Modx+, Montage as well as the Montage M models.