Can I use a device simultaneously as a MIDI slave and a MIDI master at the same time? (sic) That is what you are asking. The trouble should be fairly obvious when stated without product names. I believe the framers of the MIDI spec used the terminology "master-slave" to imply that in numbers there should be one master but any number of slaves. The ideal situation would be to have one device send each slaved device its instructions.

I think you will find most products are designed to be one, the other but not both at the same time.

That said, you can go into your solving your problem with a realistic hope of actually solving your issue (which might involve you buying additional gear to act as your single master) rather than waiting for a fix that no one is really looking to create (basic master-slave concept in MIDI assumes one master, multiple slaves). Not to say that in the future things may actually change in that direction. (MIDI 2.0 to the rescue!)

When you select MIDI I/O mode = Single you have created a situation where you can play all KBD CTRL linked Parts simultaneously from an external controller. This is especially useful if your external master keyboard can only transmit out on one MIDI channel. Single mode let's you play a Multi-Part Montage Performance using just one input channel, this also means that the Montage will Output data on a single MIDI channel as well (it is Input/Output) mode.

Much like any single timbral Synth, or single MIDI Keyboard, it receives/transmits on a single channel.
You can perform all Parts of a Multi Part Performance exactly as if you were playing the Montage keys.
That statement should have you understanding that this means the Montage is no longer capable of transmitting on more than one channel. Any mention of using Zones is negated (Zone, by definition, is creating separate Note and/or Velocity regions to transmit Out via). Simple deduction here, once Zones are activated within a Performance you have negated (overridden) the Single I/O Mode.

If you were attempting to use the Montage as a slave and you also want to use it as a master (against the design concept) nothing but logic and the way the product works prevents you from attempting what you are attempting... in order for the Montage to send Program Changes, you need to activate a Zone within the Performance. That means Single I/O mode is overridden whenever a Zone Switch is activated within the current Performance.

To use the Montage as a master to send Program Changes you must use the Zone function.
This does not prevent you from also using the Montage as a slave.
You simply are going to be in a Multi MIDI I/O mode when that happens.

This does however, call into question, your "master keyboard" - we assume it is able to effectively act as a master controller... for example, if your external controller was a Motif XF (an ideal master keyboard capable of transmitting on 8 Zones)... this makes the ideal external controller for a Montage (because of the 8 simultaneous Zones). Not that you will always need 8 Zones, but it does cover every possible contingency that would arise with a Montage as slave while in "MIDI I/O Mode = Multi".

The solution:
Based on how Montage works, here's one way to get this to work for you:

To be clear... to send Program Change messages Out via MIDI, the Montage must be in Zone Master "On" condition, and you must activate the Zone Switch locally within the Performance and setup the transmit functions.
If you have selected SINGLE as your global I/O mode, it will apply in all situations except when you activate a Zone Switch. Recognize that the act of turning a Zone Switch On within a Performance, by definition, overrides SINGLE mode for the current Performance set.

Although it is not clear to me what you are doing (or why) this info should present a solution. You can use a "dummy" setup to *send* the Program Change Out, then simply advance to the next Montage Performance to actually play. The Montage only Outputs a Program Change when you have programmed it to do so.

The "dummy" Performance can be a single Part slot setup to route the PC Out on whatever Channel you desire. The Montage can be set so that when it receives the PC for this dummy Performance, it sends the appropriate message Out on the channel you set. We are calling it "dummy" because this is not going to be the Performance you play. You will manually advance to the adjacent Performance, which because no Zone Switches are On, reverts to MIDI I/O Mode = SINGLE, and is set to be played as you were doing.

If you need help setting this up, let us know.

Thanks bad mister so if I undestood well there is no way to us a stage piano with montage (currently only rd2000 have 8 zones and it is expensive). I'm looking for Cp4 but it doesn't reach 8 zone controller so I can't use montage in multi midi mode with cp4. Before montage 7 I had montage 8 and I sell it because weight and dimensions too big....xf8 has the same dimensions and weight of montage so it is excluded to me. Max about 20kg to gig it.
I ask for possibility to send midi program change in single mode so that I can recall program in CP4 from montage and drive both montage and CP4 engine from CP4 keyboard. For example I want recall a program where cp4 play piano and montage play strings. I think that this is a common needing.
I think that this is a need of a lot of amatour player that can't have a service that transport very high weight keyboard.....so that I think that it should be very usefull and asked from users. For me it is not so unusuall that a keyboard may act like master and slave at the same time, expeciali if, like montage have, there is a keyboard with a good control surface (montage) coupled with a "light" stage piano with a good keybed (cp4)

I ask for possibility to send midi program change in single mode so that I can recall program in CP4 from montage and drive both montage and CP4 engine from CP4 keyboard. For example I want recall a program where cp4 play piano and montage play strings. I think that this is a common needing.

Yes, we agree. But we would solve this issue in a much simpler manner than you have concluded you need. In fact, your conclusion that you can't do this is completely untrue.

Again, the ideal situation is to have one master keyboard, and any number of slave devices. Why send the Program Change from the Montage, if you are using the CP4 Stage as your master keyboard? Why not just use the Master Keyboard functions of the CP4 Stage?

Setup the CP4 Stage to be your Master Keyboard, sending Bank Select and Program Changes from the CP4 Stage Performance, this will recall whatever Performance you require in the Montage. There is no need to use the Montage as the instrument that recalls the setup... Use the CP4 Stage, as it is fully capable of acting as a master keyboard controller for your stated purpose.

How to setup CP4 Stage with Montage
Set the Montage to "MIDI I/O Mode = Single"
Select a MIDI Channel on which you want to communicate between your CP4 Stage Zone and the Montage. For my example, Ch 11 you can choose any channel you desire 1-16.
Set "Super Knob CC = 95"

Setup the CP4 Stage
Recall the CP4 Stage Performance with your Piano _ I'll use Performance 001(A01): "CFX Grand"
From the main "Performance Select" screen
Press [EDIT]
Advance to 03: Master Keyboard > Enter
Turn the "MasterKbdSw" = On

Cursor Down
Activate Zone 1 = On
Set MIDI CHANNEL = Montage MIDI I/O channel (Ch 11 in my example)

Cursor Down
Set Oct and Transpose for the Zone

Cursor Down
Set "NOTE LIMIT" * if you do not want the Montage to sound in response to key presses on the CP4 Stage, set the Range = G8~G8

Cursor Down
Set the Bank Select and Program Change for your desired Montage Performance... for example: Bank MSB = 63, Bank LSB = 66, PgmNo = 27 would recall Montage Performance "Seattle Sections".

Cursor Down
Set the Controller Response Switches as desired
You can even assign one of the CP4 Stage "Sliders" to control Montage Volume, if you desire.

Setup Foot Controller 2 to send CC95 to make it your remote Super Knob.

We agree this is a very common setup request... and is fully accounted for in the firmware's of both Montage and CP4 Stage, just as it is now. In a similar fashion to the Montage, when you activate the Zone Switch within a CP4 Stage Performance, it will override what is transmitted Out via MIDI, and will follow what you setup and STORE to this Performance. There are 4 Zones... as soon as any one of them is active, the CP4 Stage follows what you setup under MASTER KEYBOARD.

You would reverse the situation if you wanted to use the Montage as the keys you want to play on... in general, the Master Keyboard is the one you are playing on. It should, therefore, also be the one sending the program changes.

Anticipating the next question....

CP4 Stage controlling the Montage while the Montage is in "MIDI I/O Mode = MULTI"
When the Montage is in "MIDI I/O Mode = Multi" you should consider that it occupies channels 1 through 8. We say that because this is the maximum number of Parts that a KBD CTRL Performance will occupy, and because the Montage will receive MIDI Program Change commands on any of the eight linked channels. That means sending the "Seattle Sections" Program Change message (63/66, PC 27) to Montage on Channel 1 or Channel 8 will get the same results while I/O Mode is Multi.

However, because the CP4 Stage only transmits on 4 MIDI Channels simultaneously (maximum) that means trying to play a 7-Part Montage Performance from the CP4 Stage would only allow you to play the 1st violins, 2nd violins, violas, and cellos - if you selected to transmit channels 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Therefore, it would be inappropriate to attempt to use the CP4 Stage to control a Montage in "MIDI I/O Mode = Multi" (at least without knowing the controller needs to transmit on all the channels used in the particular Montage Performance.

Remember, Montage (as a feature) lets you build these humongous Synth sounds that combine, literally, the power of eight Motif XF Voices into a single playable sound (apologies to the FM-X engine which can be substituted for one or more of those eight sounds). To play all of that as Montage allows, you need a controller that transmits on as many channels... or you must select SINGLE.

If you do not have such a controller (and this is a very important, but often mistaken point): selecting "MIDI I/O Mode = Single" allows an external keyboard, transmitting on just a single MIDI channel, to do EVERYTHING you can do playing the Montage Keys! The big difference is what Montage is then able to Send Out via MIDI. This is an important point to understand.

___ When set to SINGLE, you can have your external keyboard play all parts of the "Seattle Sections", you can trigger all Parts of "Moving Floor", you can play all parts of the "CFX + FM EP" on the single channel. What goes Out via MIDI is just what you press on the keys.

___ When MULTI is selected, if you play the Montage keys, what goes Out via MIDI is similarly just what you press on the keys with the difference being... if you are triggering two Parts what you play goes Out on both channels...(most MIDI folks would accomplish this by placing two Tone Generator Parts on the same channel... Yamaha is not doing that, we are transmitting simultaneously to each channel going Out) why? .... if one of those Parts has an Arpeggiator, the data generated by that device replaces your key presses. So on a Performance, like "Moving Floor" instead of 6-Parts on a single MIDI channel Out, 5 of the Parts are under control of their own separate arpeggiator, only one Part is played directly. In Multi each streams its own data.

___ When set to SINGLE, you can play all linked Parts by transmitting IN on the selected Channel.
___ When set to MULTI, you can only play the one part on the one channel you are transmitting IN on.

Please try the above... stop thinking it is not possible. Let us know.

Thanks bad mister...I understood everything....but:

"Why send the Program Change from the Montage, if you are using the CP4 Stage as your master keyboard? Why not just use the Master Keyboard functions of the CP4 Stage?"

The answers is very easy. Because montage have live set list that is fantastic and I can choose program from touch screen choosing from 16 programs x page. This is why I wañt use montage to recall programs. Cp4 doesn't have this kind of very good interface.
So the only way to use montage like master, in terms of program change, and a 88 master keyboard to play montage7 is finding out a controller that work on at least 8 channels at the same time.
Are you agree with me that if on montage will be added a feature that send to midi out program change also when montage is in single mode my problem is solved? :--) may I suggest for it? I don't want to buy rd2000 or viscount pk4 :--).

You've been offered a way to send MSB+LSB+PC from Montage to the CP4 to accomplish just what you want.

1) ("Dummy" performance idea from BM) Performance with Master/PART Zone = ON and MIDI zone parameters set to MSB+LSB+PC of what CP4 needs for its program change - this can be in your live set one slot preceding your Montage PART Zone = OFF (MIDI mode = single, not overridden) so you can use live set. This performance's only role will be to send MIDI data from Montage to your CP4 and has no function of making noises.

2) Press the next live set button (touchscreen) or use a footswitch to advance one slot through live set (which footswitch can be assigned to).

Although it's an extra step - you get Montage to send the CP4 a program change and retain use of the CP4 as a keyboard input to control Montage utilizing the MIDI mode = single channel.

Or you can slave everything to some Android or iOS device and use a bluetooth MIDI connector and target both devices using a tablet with an APP having the ability to replace the live set feature. I'm sure there's something that organizes MIDI MSB+LSB+PC on a tablet that allows a touch interface similar to live set and labeling each with text / colors.

For iOS there's something called "Set List Maker". It's just the first hit I got from a search. Has MIDI capabilities. Android has a port of this app.

I'm not saying this 3rd suggestion is better - just another one to throw on the pile of options. With iOS - you don't need bluetooth since you can go the wired route (although I think you still need the camera kit or some such thing -- not an iOS user here -- do your own research if you want to go this route). Android doesn't have as much support in this regard and bluetooth is a suggestion for universal connectivity. Although I have not looked into if "Set List Maker" and bluetooth MIDI work together for Android.

Thanks guys but using dummy performance is not good to me. That means make double of programs, and worst can't have immediately change in sound and also looking Ssd (in rapid change of 3 program SSS doesn't work), so no good. Using a extra gear like tablet is not for me. Too mach complicated thinks. I prefer use montage in single mode and lost engine of 88master keyboard or use only montage without masterkeyboard.
I like easy solutions because my aim is music and not complication. So to me suggestion of Pc for single midi mode is most easy and smart solution to this kind of (I think common) use of montage coupled with stage piano.
Best regards.

Fair enough - inserting a non-active performance change between two active performances does kill SSS. So that's a true downside if SSS is valued in this scenario. There are probably creative ways around this - like not sending program changes back to the CP4 every time and instead "lining up" voice splits on the CP4 so that you can "dummy" at the start of the tune to load up the CP4's program which can be used THROUGH Montage SSS in a single tune. After all - you SSS within the context of a single tune (or single true performance - melody) so you need not send MSB+LSB+PC except at the beginning of a tune.... meaning you're not playing anything when you send this (no SSS). And the CP4 should be "lined up" with all of its sounds, splits, etc. for that tune to cover what it needs to do from the single program change. So you would have the dummy - then two or three or a hundred (if you need that many for a single "tune") live set slots which can all SSS from one to the other until you reach the end of the tune and land on your next dummy.

This may not be preferable because it takes less effort to program and setup than most things -- but still more effort than using your (non-existant) future firmware -- which may not come for some time (if ever).

I think it's constructive to point out where things can be improved. And so I don't mind your outlining a use case where this can help your setup where you have a poorly matched keyboard (for multi-part control over dedicated MIDI channels) with the Montage. Korg and Kurzweil, and Roland have better matches. The Motif XF, although works fine, may not be the best match because there's too much overlap in the tone department. There's some cost - either programming and your button pressing (free/no cost) -- or throw hardware at it (cost) -- or wait around (time) for something that may not come.

It's a reasonable suggestion. Although be prepared to wait or be put into a low priority queue.

The "now" suggestions are to give you something to work with until then.

The other thing you can do is just make sure you only address 4 PARTs at a time -- so you can use MIDI mode = multi channel. If you use SSS instead of splits - this is do-able. You will lose something - but you are in the driver's seat of what is the lesser of all evils you perceive (to compromise on).