I believe there is a significant error in Yamaha's instructions. As best as I can tell, the Motif ES Voice Editor can not open files in .W7A or .W7V format: only .W7E. Therefore it seems there are only a few ways to make the conversion, and all of them rely on having access to a Motif or spending some money:

• Using a Motif ES, save the files directly as .W7E, then follow Yamaha's instructions from step 4
• Or, using a Motif XS (or maybe XF) import the .W7A/.W7V files and save them as .X0V (or .X3V from the Motif XF). These files can then be imported directly into the Montage without using any PC Editor software.
• Or, purchase Chicken Systems Translator ($149.95)

Hi Kronos,

I am pretty much dealing with the same issue. I have my ES files in a .w7v format which is not readable by Yamaha editors.

One solution would be to find a Yamaha XF or XS owner, and ask him/her to load the ES file and then save it in XS/XF format. Those formats are loadable to Montage.

But, it seems that finding a collaborative XF/XS user is more challenging than expected. 🙂

I've had my post on this and some other forums asking for help in converting the ES file for a while now, and no help offered yet.

Cheers,
DT

It has been quite a while since I’ve worked with the Motif ES, but since I know that I explored/studied each transition in file formats, I have been here, I’ve converted data, and have the t-shirt.

Reviewing the corporate website post.. (Step 2 is wrong) what you need to do is load your File to a Motif ES, then SAVE as a “Voice Editor” File.
_ The Motif ES could save the internal User Voices and the User Drum Kits in a .W7E file format directly from the keyboard itself.
The Voice Editor did not deal with USER Waveforms. So the best you could hope for using the Editor transfer method was the Voices that used internal ROM Waveforms. There is really no way to transfer any User Waveforms via the Editors.

If you have Motif ES native files .W7A/.W8A or .W7V/.W8V that contain custom Waveforms, your best choice is to find a hardware Motif XS or XF, which can make the attempt to convert the Motif ES data as it loads.

Now depending on the programming of the ES data, it may or may not translate the user Waveforms to the XS/XF.

The architecture of the XS (2007-2010) is significantly different from the Motif ES (2003-2007). The original Motif (2001-2003) and Motif ES had four Elements AWM2 engines, the Motif XS introduced the eight Element AWM2 architecture. Additionally, enough changes in envelopes, effect processors, multiple Arpeggiators, Expanded Articulation Element structure, etc, etc., etc., enough to warrant most third party companies to completely redo their offerings — the upgrade in the engine was that significant - ES to XS!

The gap between the XS and the XF was the introduction of Flash expansion on non-volatile boards (user writeable memory that maintains custom waveforms between power cycles). A huge thing to those who deal in custom Wave data, not so huge if that is not your thing.

The newer architecture found in the MONTAGE/MODX, is significantly different in how Elements can now be used to build instruments and of course, the expanded controller matrix, etc.

When new synthesizers are being developed the voicing team very much stays abreast of which sounds are most liked by owners. This is how particular favorites survive from model to model. Of course, not everyone’s favorites make it... but knowing how the voicing process works, rest assured, there is awareness of what gets ‘liked’... and transferred forward to newer products.

If your Motif ES data can be properly ‘translated’ by an XS or XF, then that is your best shot at it actually arriving in a MONTAGE ... but I think if you get a Waveform that survives both “translations” you’ll be very lucky. There are always users that want to load their old sounds into the new synth. And typically, the very next model contains the appropriate “lookup tables” that make the Wave substitutions for the previous synth. But it is by no means foolproof when it comes to third party Waves and/or user created data... or in situations where more than one translation is occurring.

I’ve seen things like skipping a Keybank assignment or turning an Element Switch Off so that active Waveforms are not contiguous, and other minor programming anomalies (normally read correctly by a like model) but when being ‘translated’ by a newer model this causes an issue. Or because the third party programmer used an editor that had a default settings which they inadvertently transferred to their data for duplication which wound up pooching the translation...

I would not hold out hope that all your custom Waveform data will survive journey... certainly, the old Motif Voice data (the data that uses internal Waves) will translate. The sound is going to different (of course) the audio engine is many years improved, the Effect processing path is far superior, and all Motif ES programs have just two Knob Assignments, and just four Elements maximum... leaving plenty of room to expand on your ability to perform them.

Logistics
Finding someone to do the translation for you is best done locally / personally... call your local music store see if they have one on display. If they have someone in the synth department into synths they’ll help you
— if they have an ES you just need to load the file and then immediately Save as a Voice Editor file.
— if they have an XF bring the .W7A/.W8A or .W7V/.W8V and load it to the Flash (without a FL Board you can load 128MB) then immediately save it in Motif XF format .X3A

There are potential issues for the online volunteer — if the data still is the intellectual property of someone else, are you involving them in something that ultimately winds up in some kind of piracy battle,... now in most cases, it is nothing near being that sinister, but it would be naive to think such things don’t happen. So don’t be surprised at the lack of immediate volunteers — innocent as it may actually be...

Bad Mister

Your mastery of the technology that brings these sounds to life is only surpassed by your laser sharp wit and practicality...thank you!

I apologize if this is out of (topical) bounds, but might I inquire about any updates to the availability of Powergrand for the Montage?

I have literally held on to my Motif 6, in addition to the Montage, for the sole purpose of cross referencing the two, to try and build a similar sound in Montage, but sonically there appears to be a major "out of the box" difference (even at max volume, the PG in the Motif eclipses anything I have been able to model with the Montage for acoustic pianos). Therefore, I want to inquire about accessing an actual replica/derivative for the Montage before I continue to toil away.

Full Grand on the Montage is my preference thus far, but I've noticed the "warmth" of the sample is absent in the C3-C5 range...but then returns D5+. I can't seem to figure out how to apply different EQ parameters at different split points (assuming that's even possible...but is what is necessary were I to decide on a strategy to achieve my objective).

Any thoughts?

Disclaimer ... This is responding to a branch of the thread not related to the original topic. Malcom, I see you could see the future here:

I apologize if this is out of (topical) bounds

... and so you may have done better to open up a new thread to give yourself (and this thread) proper room for differentiation. Motif Classic is its own beast.

Note that the last Yamaha workstation/synth that could "directly" load Motif classic's samples was Motif XF. The stock pianos, for example, have been carried forward in expansion libraries that Motif XF could read. Montage has removed support for these formats - so Montage cannot directly deal with this waveform data.

I would say since you have the original hardware - give Sample Robot a try and see if that captures your Motif's Powergrand sufficiently. It's good to know what the various velocity layers are - I'm not too familiar with Motif classic - but I'm sure there's a way to show how Powergrand is "constructed" and tell Sample Robot to sample using these various velocity thresholds. It's also helpful to know how Powergrand is constructed in terms of notes. Which notes are individually sampled and which are not. So you can tell Sample Robot which notes to sample itself and which to leave to Montage to "stretch" (if that applies).

Early in Montage's life - there were some indications that either compatibility would be "fixed" and Montage would add support to read these formats OR the old libraries that carried forward these samples would be converted to make them compatible. SOME (very few) have been converted. Only by 3rd party vendors. None of the other suggested progress (I stop short of calling them "promises" to be generous) have materialized. And it is unlikely to change given the timeline.

Full Grand on the Montage is my preference thus far, but I've noticed the "warmth" of the sample is absent in the C3-C5 range...but then returns D5+. I can't seem to figure out how to apply different EQ parameters at different split points (assuming that's even possible...but is what is necessary were I to decide on a strategy to achieve my objective).

Of course this is possible (highly recommended, actually)... although none of the listening audience will hear what you are talking about, I completely understand the search for the ‘just right’ acoustic piano sound.

With the EQs available on the MONTAGE you can be very precise about the frequency you are affecting. The EQs provide you frequency selection every 1/3 of an octave. If you can identify the note range, you should be able to figure out exactly what frequencies to work with...
Do not underestimate the power of the onboard EQ within this engine. Each Element has its own dedicated EQ, each Part has a 3-band EQ pre-Insert Effect and a 2-band EQ post-Insert Effect... the Insert Effect could be the VCM EQ 501 (a boutique 5-band EQ) worth the effort to get into... (get a chart that shows what frequency each note is; recognize that Yamaha uses the C3 = middle C convention). As a musician you should familiarize yourself with frequency and your notes... A440 is the A in the octave above middle C (C261)

As to the PowerGrand (the 2.4MB acoustic piano from the Motif Classic) that data was previously available in promotional material for the XF and MOXF. No such promotional data that includes that particular data has been cleared for release for the MONTAGE/MODX. That’s all I can tell you.

Compare the acoustic piano sounds — you can use the Audition Phrase in addition to playing them yourself. The differences can be very subtle, often only recognizable at particular velocities. Most of the Factory pianos have EQ assigned to the Part Assign Knobs so that adjustments can be made. Using the MultiBand Compressor can also help with customizing (personalizing) your own piano sound.

Extra Credit:
Equalizers Part 1
Equalizers Part 2
Assignable Knob Study: Acoustic Piano

Hi,

I just wanted to provide a quick update ..

A fine gentleman who is a member of this forum, offered his help and we were able to convert the ES file into an XF one, without any issues. The gentleman even helped me clean up the file which contained some duplicate waveforms! Furthermore, he was willing to spend extra hours trying to download the file, which was quite challenging due to a limited internet connection. And after all that, he wanted to stay anonymous, which further emphasizes his genuine willingness to help a fellow musician without taking credit for that.
Truly a fantastic guy!

Thanks again man! Much appreciated. 😉

DT