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DAW multiple track midi note chaos: how do people manage to work with these?

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Gabi
 Gabi
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I think I am about to go back to the old way of track by track recording. I am curious how others here handle editing the split up midi tracks of a multitrack recording when each of these tracks contains around 50% notes from other parts that aren´t even played by that track.
I personally cannot edit this. See attached screenshot - I find just looking at this completely overwhelming.

Attached files

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 1:54 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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so how do I set this up? I have a performance with 5 parts, I want to record one part after the other, each on a different cubase track and a different in and out midi channel. do I have to change the midi out channel in utility after each recording or can each part be assigned to a separate midi channel? the receive channels are fixed, is that correct? part 1 should receive only midi 1, part 2 midi 2 and so on?

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 2:01 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

First, from your posted MIDI file (your other thread) I can see you are recording Aftertouch. Not recommended unless the sound you are recording specifically responds to it. You should probably filter Aftertouch until you need it. It clutters up your tracks with unnecessary events. Recording a MULTI PART Performance as MIDI data, requires you understand what needs to be routed to separate tracks and what does not. This can vary depending on the Performance you have built/selected.

If you wish to record one-track-at-a-time, where each Part occupies a channel, start with the INIT "Multi/GM" Performance and substitute Single Parts for each of the sixteen Parts.

so how do I set this up? I have a performance with 5 parts, I want to record one part after the other, each on a different cubase track and a different in and out midi channel. do I have to change the midi out channel in utility after each recording or can each part be assigned to a separate midi channel? the receive channels are fixed, is that correct? part 1 should receive only midi 1, part 2 midi 2 and so on?

Turn off the KBD CTRL (green) icon on each of your five Parts. This will allow you address each one separately when you Select it.

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 2:22 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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ok, wasn´t aware of aftertouch but I will filter that out.

the performance I need to record is already set, I cannot start all over with a multi GM performance. It´s a complete song with drums, bass arps, guitars arps, and 2 more instruments. I tried to play this all at once on a single multitrack, then split that track up. and there are so many notes there - I can´t even quickly figure out which track is which instrument. For example there´s a single synth part that´s only in the intro, but the rest of the track has all the (silent) notes from the guitar arps in it...

so I want to record one track after the other, but I need to also hear what´s already recorded, I need to record the drums first and then the bass arp while playing back the recorded drum arp. and so on. If I only chose one instrument at a time with KBD CTRL I won´t hear what I´ve recorded, right?

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 2:36 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

so I want to record one track after the other, but I need to also hear what´s already recorded, I need to record the drums first and then the bass arp while playing back the recorded drum arp. and so on. If I only chose one instrument at a time with KBD CTRL I won´t hear what I´ve recorded, right?

Wrong.
Again, turn all of the KBD CTRL icons OFF. This allows you to directly select just the Part that you will be interacting with and recording.
Activate the ARP on the Part only when you are ready to transfer its data. Then turn it off.

Set the QUICK SETUP to "Arp Rec on DAW"
Record one track at a time as you would normally.

You'll need to Send MIDI clock from the DAW, and you will need to trigger playback of the Arps after the count-in.
You will be able to playback your drums while you transfer the bass arps
You will be able to playback both the drums and bass as you add the next Part, and so on.

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 2:52 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

HI Im trying to create a step by step tutorial on this for you.

Sorry Chris, you should start your own thread. This is not quite accurate. Gabi is having a bit of a time and if we go off on a tangent, it is simply not fair.

 
Posted : 19/11/2016 5:11 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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Thank you Bad Mister, with KBD CTR off it works, but I get some issues:

- as soon as I correct a note in the cubase midi editor, or even sometimes when I move parts around, I get a continous hum on the montage that can only be stopped by changing to another performance and back.

- I made a copy of my performance and set all the scenes to the same settings because I no longer needed them (how do you completely delete scenes by the way, so that the blue light goes away?)
one of the important parts now no longer plays it´s arp. not in standalone mode either. I have not changed any settings on the part and the arps are all there but won´t play.

 
Posted : 20/11/2016 9:43 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

- as soon as I correct a note in the cubase midi editor, or even sometimes when I move parts around, I get a continous hum on the montage that can only be stopped by changing to another performance and back.

That is a mystery or I don't understand what you mean by HUM. Hum to me is an electrical noise that has nothing to do with the synth sounds that are selected, perhaps you mean you hear a note "hanging" - in which case you will want to check your MIDI routing. A hung note can be caused by sending MIDI data in a loop (to and back from an external device).

- I made a copy of my performance and set all the scenes to the same settings because I no longer needed them (how do you completely delete scenes by the way, so that the blue light goes away?).

Easy... from the main HOME screen, touch SCENE turn each MEMORY to OFF. All but the very first Blue light will extinguish because there is always one BLUE Light at position 1

 
Posted : 23/11/2016 2:45 pm
Gabi
 Gabi
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Hi Bad Mister, yes, the hum is most likely a hanging note. But my midi setup couldn´t be more basic. Montage USB out to PC USB in, Cubase settings exactly as described in your tutorials. what am I supposed to check on my midi routing?

 
Posted : 23/11/2016 7:39 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

The tutorials describe several different scenarios. I mean you need to check you are using the appropriate setup for what you are trying to accomplish. For example, are your recording Arpeggios, are you recording normally, are you playing back arpeggios, are you recording audio, etc.

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 2:07 am
Gabi
 Gabi
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today I don´t get the hum. we´ll see what happens. BUT I still can´t get a track to record only the notes I play for that track consistently. Sometimes it works, sometimes there are way too many notes. I still don´t get it.

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 9:44 am
Jason
Posts: 8260
Illustrious Member
 

You can turn off ARP out.

The quick setup for ARP REC on DAW auto configs the board to send ARP data out to the DAW which is what you are saying you do not want.

"MIDI RECORD ON DAW - Use this when you are recording standard MIDI data to the DAW. You will notice the following differences in the SIGNAL FLOW Local Control (that is the Keyboard going to MIDI OUT does not include the ARPEGGIATOR (more on that later). Use this when you recording and no arpeggio data need to be documented."

Source: https://www.yamahasynth.com/blog/montage-and-cubase-setup-guide

There's an individual menu setting to turn on/off sending ARP out - I'm not finding a picture of it just yet and I don't have my board setup yet. If you mill around - you'll find the ARP MIDI out option to turn off if you don't want to go the quick setup route.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 9:51 am
Gabi
 Gabi
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Topic starter
 

I do need to record the arps. But each arp should only have its notes and not other notes in it. This is what happens when I record everything to one track and then split that track up. I get tracks that have silent notes from other tracks in them. I can´t edit anything that has silent notes in it. I need to only see the notes that are part of that track or it´s useless.

So now with the method of track by track recording it works but not always. I just recorded the bass arp with the exact same settings. The first recording had silent notes from some other arp in it. The second recording was ok. Trying to figure out why and how to get this to be consistent.

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 9:57 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Trying to figure out why and how to get this to be consistent.

We can help you understand what you are seeing and why (we can't make you like it) but we can certain reveal to you exactly why you are seeing more data than you want (what you call "silent notes") - having done this now for twenty years (helping others tackle technology through typing) I've found specific examples the best way to start.

Please pick (an experimental) Performance, one factory Performance that is similar to the layout of what you want to do and we'll start there. There are several different scenarios as you'll see. But to get started - here's an example:

Here's what you'll ultimately learn: the "silent notes" are MIDI Note-ons not intended for the Part you are viewing. Say you hit a big chord using SEATTLE SECTIONS. While any sequencer "sees" all the keys you press (and will document them) only some of those note-on events will actually cause some Parts to make sound (this depends on the "mapping" of that sound).

Say you now then drop into edit the MIDI data of that big chord. SEATTLE SECTIONS places:
the 1st violins on MIDI channel 1
the 2nd violins on MIDI channel 2
the violas on MIDI channel 3
the cellos on MIDI channel 4
the contrabasses on MIDI channel 5
the spicato bow stroke articulation on MIDI channel 6
the SOLO violin, solo Viola and solo cello on MIDI channel 7

You need to know if you want to edit the Cello data it's on the track with channel 4 data.

You played all this on a single keyboard, Montage magic is to separate it so your data triggers the different sections of the string orchestra.... notes below G2 have no bearing on the violin sections. Notes below C2 have no bearing on the viola section. They are "silent notes"

Violins make no sound below G2... violas, cellos and contra basses do, however
Violas make no sound below C2... cellos and contra basses do.

So in correcting "wrong" notes, if you hit D1 instead of Eb1, the violins, violas did not make that mistake, only your cellos and contra basses did? So correcting the notes would need to be done on the Cello track and the Contrabass track.

When you play Multi Parts you must be aware that the data is generated, not by seven keyboards, but all on the one single keyboard... it is the musical response of the tone engine (the mapping of the receiving Part) that determines if it is silent or sounds. Dynamically morphing could mean, yes, sometimes certain Parts do not respond .. either because the Note Range or the Velocity Range requirements are not met by that particular note-on data... thus "silent notes".

Summary:
It's the difference between MIDI (which triggers audio) and Audio (which is the world we live in and we should understand by experience). MIDI data has requirements (key mapping, velocity mapping) that must be met in order to trigger audio.
Had you routed each of the "Sections" to their own STEREO USB audio bus output and recorded as audio, this would all be clear. The 1st violins could be on their own discreet stereo output, the 2nd violins on their own discreet stereo output... and so on. Correcting mistakes would not be confusing because "silent notes" are simply not heard, they are actually silent. The D1 mistake that should have been an Eb1 would only be heard on the Cello and Contrabass tracks.

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 10:49 am
Gabi
 Gabi
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OK, I´ll have to live with that then. Not easy to edit tracks that are loaded with "silent" data thow. I´ll have to practice...

 
Posted : 24/11/2016 3:51 pm
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