We’d be happy to help but you provide nothing for us to work with.

Do you know how to use MONTAGE CONNECT?
Can you post a zipped .X7B or a better description of what you’re doing?

Without much to go on, I'll ask some starter questions that might help you.

Are you using the element solo feature to listen to this element in isolation while troubleshooting?

Have you tried eliminating the filter from the equation by completely opening the filter cutoff?

Is the Decay 1 Level setting lower than the Decay 2 Level in the Amplitude EG?

Last, and the most ambiguous question, do you have any control assignments that affect element AEG, filter etc mapped to mod wheel, super knob, ribbon control etc that you might accidentally bump easily while playing?

It sometimes occurs to me when I start from an existing performance, delete some parts and add new ones.
An example is starting with part-1: choir-Jazz singers, deleting part 3 and 4 and the substituting part 3 with the CFX stage piano.
It starts echoing like being in a Cathedral.
It apparently inherits settings or invocations from the first slot.
By changing the order of the build-up I can prevent this.

It sometimes occurs to me when I start from an existing performance, delete some parts and add new ones.
An example is starting with part-1: choir-Jazz singers, deleting part 3 and 4 and the substituting part 3 with the CFX stage piano.
It starts echoing like being in a Cathedral.
It apparently inherits settings or invocations from the first slot.
By changing the order of the build-up I can prevent this.

Well, if you “start from an existing Performance” and more specifically, if you *replace* an existing Part, you get to choose if you inherit settings or the settings of the selected Part are brought along.

Please see the following article on Category Search. There are three different types of searches for instrument programs.
If you enter [CATEGORY SEARCH] from the Home screen you will see “Performance Category Search”
If you enter [CATEGORY SEARCH] by adding a Part, that is, you touched “+” to add a Part, you will see “Performance Merge”
If you enter [CATEGORY SEARCH] after selecting an existing Part, you will see “Part Category Search” — and you have options called “parameter with Part” which allows you bring along or not, the settings of the selected Part.

Extra Credit:
MONTAGE Using Category Search

We are pretty far from the original poster’s issue which was adding an Element (not a Part).

so I'm trying to add an element to the a tonewheel part, and when I add the element there is a weird decay before sustaining, and I can't figure out where it's coming from, I copied all the element parameters for amplitude, pitch, filter etc, from the other elements that sustain properly. Help please! Thanks!

The Element is a basic building block within the AWM2 (Sample) engine. Each Element references a Waveform. And eight Elements are used to make a Normal Part (73 Elements are used to make Drum Kit Part).

Element parameters create a complete Synthesizer... it has an independently tuneable Oscillator (a sampled “Waveform” which can organize as many 256 individual audio samples), it has its Filter, Filter EG (18 different types available), it has its own Amplitude generator, it’s own Element LFO and a lane that lets it be controlled by the Part LFO... It has its routing to one, the other or both Part Insertion Effects, and so on.

Because the controller matrix of the Motion Control Synthesis Engine (MONTAGE/MODX) is so massive, individual simultaneous control of individual Elements can mapped to specific controllers. The list of Element controllable parameters is quite extensive... in our series of articles on “MONTAGifying Motif XF Performances” we attempt to develop your basic programming skills by exploring and expanding on these programs... specifically to find you may be inheriting from previous programming. It’s a good way to learn — looking at what’s been done.

For example, an Assign Knob or Switch might be tasked with offsetting a segment of the AEG (Amplitude Envelope Generator) - such an “inherited” parameter might be causing an unexpected behavior. Say a controller is set to lengthen Release Time... you’re trying to program a shorter Release but the controller tasked with offsetting the Release Time could be working against you.

Fortunately, the DISPLAY FILTER (if that’s a new term for you, embrace it it will help you when you want to find out what you maybe inheriting)... the “Display Filter” works inconjunction with the “Auto Select” Option found on the “Control Assign” screen. It lets explore specifically what’s assigned to what...

Select a Part
Press [EDIT] > touch “Mod/Control” > “Control Assign”
Activate the “Auto Select” box (green is active)
Now you can review each controller by moving it... the Display Filter will show what if anything is assigned to that controller.
Highlight the “Display Filter” you can manually call up a controller or set the box to “All” — this and the PAGE option will let you review all assignments. Remember there can 16 Control Sets (Source/Destination) so it’s four PAGES of four Control Sets, at maximum.

You learn in the tutorial articles to quickly scan for Element AEG assignments which might be impacting what you are trying to do.

Since it is a Tone Wheel Organ Sound, I’m wondering if the strange envelope is an XA CONTROL function. XA CONTROL is “Expanded Articulation Control” - it has a behavior called KEY-OFF which begins when lift your finger from the Key. This is how you can program a noise that happens only when the key is released. XA CONTROL is found on the individual Element’s “Osc/Tune” screen. Or it could be the unique programming that mimics the behavior of organ percussion (which on a B3 was monophonic... in other words, on a B3 you only get the pop of the Percussion if you hit-it-and-quit-it, Percussion does not sound when you play legato.

Not enough info from the original poster to determine what might be the issue.

The "best" way to build sampled (AWM2) PARTs from the ground up is to start with "Init Normal (AWM2) ". This starting point will always have zero controller offsets and normal AEG curves. Velocity sensitivity needs to be adjusted since it is set to ignore velocity. That's the only thing that's not middle-of-the-road about this Init Performance. If you start with initialized the Performance you will always know how things are set. Then use Performance Merge to integrate your new PART to another existing Performance.

You could modify an existing Performance like you already tried and learn what all the potential pitfalls are then hunt for them. Overall this may end up being a slower process than a more ground-up approach.

BTW: I was looking at how the Organimation demos show how scenes are used to set percussion between 2nd/3rd harmonic and fast vs slow (4 scene buttons). I kind of liked that approach, so I started to set up a Performance like that starting with "All 9 Bars! ". Listening to the percussion sound this preset supplies (PART 2, I believe element 2) - All 9 only has the 3rd harmonic percussion and not 2nd. So I can see why someone would want to add an element. All I did to add the 2nd harmonic was copy PART 2 to PART 3. I then turn off all elements except for element 2. And edited element 2 to pitch shift by -7 semi-tones which places the percussion as the 1st harmonic (1st octave above the fundamental aka unison note). I did first mill around to see if there was another percussion sample already sampled at the 2nd harmonic and didn't see it. Probably would also work by using the 4' drawbar and using AEG to shape the response for fast or slow decay modes. It doesn't have the extra "grit" added like the sampled percussion has. I'm not sure I like that percussion itself has this noise considering I can already add this kind of noise elsewhere with the keyclick, leakage, and other noises available. So I may change out the percussion to something more pristine.

This doesn't really help anything - other than walk you through what I did. I have no problems. I would have probably had problems if I used some random element that was intended originally for some other use and tried to retro-fit percussion into it. Or, conversely, tried to place a long sustaining type sound into this percussion's element slot - because this AEG is setup to decay fast. Even if long non-decaying samples (with loops) are placed here.

... and - unused elements in PART 2 look like some custom "pipe" lengths. For what I was doing - it was just easier to copy the PART and "add" an element that way. It would be kind of nice to have an element copy feature on-board (copy within same PART or choose any other PART as destination for copy). So far the instrument doesn't have great cut/paste ability for elements.

Jason: It would be kind of nice to have an element copy feature on-board (copy within same PART or choose any other PART as destination for copy).
I second that.

@Badmister: Thanks for you eloquent answers. Always great to have your in depth knowledge available.

Suggestion: When building a sound “from scratch” using the AWM2 engine you would naturally start with Element 1. The strength of the single Element needs to be spotlighted a bit more. As I mentioned above, the Element can be a complete Synthesizer Sound all by itself. Often in an attempt to ‘speed ahead’ when constructing sounds, I find those new to programming tend to miss some of the important details within the solitary Element.

Among the 6,347 factory Waveforms are individual sounds that are complete acoustic pianos, full string orchestra, full brass ensemble, etc. A Waveform is a collection of as many as 256 samples.
An Element is the set of parameters that are applied to the Waveform.

Playing a single Element sound can be enlightening.

A little knowledge about how Sound is logarithmic in nature can help you avoid some silly programming... if you take a single Element that references a Stereo Waveform of the full string orchestra and copy it to the adjacent Element, thinking this will make it twice as full or twice as loud... you will discover that sound doesn’t stack up like that... our ears tend to compress sound.

In order to make it seem twice as loud you’d need to use ten Elements. But had you taken that second Element and altered it... either delayed it ever so slightly, or if you change the envelope ever so slightly, or panned the Element to a different location in the stereo field... any of these or a combination of them will change the listener’s perception of fullness and volume far more than simply layering the same exact sound on top of itself (let’s just say, if that is how you program, you won’t get hired to do professional sound designing).

Effects do not have to be obvious and dramatic. The subtle changes are huge when it comes down to a sense of size/fullness. By delaying the sound arriving at the one channel different from the other by as little as 0.1ms is detectable by the listener; delaying one side by 50.0ms has a profound effect on the perception of the size of the source. And has the added benefit of not trading polyphony to achieve something that is better done with knowledge of acoustics... knowing that it would take multiplying by 10 to double the loudness perception, learning to use a delay line and the use of the stereo field will get you better results. I should also mention “detuning” as a way to affect the perception of fullness. String orchestras are never in perfect tune, but “less is more” so a little bit goes a long way. I prefer the slight time delay, as it mimics sound in an actual environment... and time delay does it’s own subtle pitch alteration thing (with actually detuning the sound).

Before you start layering Parts, an understanding of how the layering of Elements works on our perception... this would be a good place to start.

The Workflow...
When starting with an Element, you naturally begin to shape it into the sound or instrument you are building. This includes the Filters, the Envelope Generators, etc., etc... only after you have these fundamentals programmed would you “+” (add) a new Element. If this is your first rodeo, you wind up thinking you need to do all that work again on Element 2... once you have refined the behavior of the first Element *this* is when you want to “copy” the Element parameters. Most times, in instrument building, there is a strict similarity in these fundamental settings, at least far more than they would be different. The soft-medium- and hard strike Waveforms of the Acoustic piano will share everything but the source samples... it’s not like the medium strike Element is going to need a different Effect routing or Filter assignment... (of course, if that is the goal, then by all means don’t use the Copy Element function.

[SHIFT] + [EDIT] while editing your Element will let you copy all your Element 1 parameters to Element 2... then you can change the (Oscillator) Waveform.
Element parameters are applied to whatever Waveform you point them to. So (I guess what I’m saying is, there is no copying of just the AEG from this source to that destination by itself built-in to the firmware... but when building a sound you learn to work around that... it’s a non-issue, in practice. You actually want in most cases to copy the entire Element set of parameters and then simply assign them to the second selected Waveform. Element parameters are applied to whatever Waveform you place in the Osc slot).

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be nice in certain situations, say you want to borrow from the programming of the world-class programmers that worked on the synths... but the above is about starting “from scratch”... when “borrowing any such direct copy shortcuts are great. And if this would make life easier for you... then that is a good reason to invest in the John Melas Editors — it allows such surgical copying and pasting of select individual parameters! Just FYI.

Hope that helps.