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External Master Keyboard with Firmware 1.2

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I've bought a Montage 7 some days ago.
Previously I've played a Motif XS together with a Master Keyboard. I've mainly used the song mode because I can assign any sound to the external Keyboard.
With Montage this setup is not possible anymore. Indeed, with firmware update 1.2 it's a little bit better. If I use Midi Single Mode I can play Multipart Performances with my external keyboard and I can play one single sound on the Montage by turning Keyboard Control off and selecting the part. But this solution is rather more a workaround than a solution.
First of all I can play only one part! No layers! That's a big problem! Secondly the part selection is not stored. So when I call the performance the Montage has no sound.
This is also not very practical for using it live.
My request to Yamaha: Please implement custom midi channel assignment for parts and many live keyboarders are happy. I think this would be only a little software change!

Another useful feature would be seemless scene switching (of course configurable). If I select a scene where a part will be muted and another becomes active it would be great if the change becomes active once a new key will be pressed. At the moment when I change the scenes I have a sudden sound switch which does not sound good. And so I have to use two performances for one song.

These two features and I'm totally happy! Great product!

 
Posted : 28/11/2016 10:45 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Typically within the context of a single performance the assignable switches can be used to reproduce SSS type behavior.

With a properly prepared performance I think this may be done using an external MIDI controller.

No longer at the keyboard so I cannot take a look at the MIDI receive channel options and I do not use MIDI extensively to have an off the cuff answer.

This is not the first request for more me nu settings for controlling the MIDI receive channel of various specific sound combinations. I believe there is sufficient configuration available to get the results you want. Cue BM.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 2:17 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

As you work with the Montage, you will begin to see that it is based on addressing multiple Parts and is capable of outputting data on as many as eight channels simultaneously. This is probably easy enough to understand, I believe it's the implications that has many requesting, as you have, for some kind Montage 'solution'. Frankly, I don't know if that is possible...but I leave that to the engineers. I can only help folks work with the options as they exist here, now.

If your external controller transmitted on multiple MIDI channels, you would not be looking for the solution you've requested. I say this because you would be able to configure it in a similar manner to how Montage's own internal architecture works. In other words, the MIDI I/O mode = single ("workaround") you described would not be your only method of addressing the Montage.

Now you can understand why we often use the example here that playing the Montage can be like playing eight Motif XF's. Each a complete Motif XF (Voice), each on a separate MIDI Channel. The advantages are many. The KBD CTRL feature allows you to link them to take advantage of all this power - in real time.

It's like addressing eight separate synthesizers. It's that simple and that complex. If your external keyboard controller *only* transmits on a single or two MIDI channels, it is obviously not the optimum controller to take advantage of the Montage's "Multi" mode architecture.

When you set MIDI I/O mode to "single" you can control the multiple Parts of the Montage on that single selected channel.
You can view this as the reason you are limited in what else you can accomplish. You've turned the Montage from being truly multi-timbal into a single entity synth. If your external controller could transmit on eight Zones (say you were using a Motif XS or XF which both are capable 8-Zone MIDI controllers) you would then have all the benefits of addressing the Montage and its other capabilities... utilizing the multiple channels.

Let's view this from a different angle:
When in MIDI I/O single, ALL data transmitted Out to a sequencer would appear on a single channel... if any arpeggios are involved, obviously only the trigger notes would be Output, (not the individual MIDI note data from the Arpeggiators). The data recorded would have to look exactly like you playing the keys.

When in MIDI I/O multi, data played on the Montage is routed Out on the channel matching the Part... if any arpeggios are involved, they can be streamed separately on their respective MIDI channel. So the individual MIDI note data from each Arpeggiator can be documented and fed back to the Montage and trigger the corresponding Part. The data recorded would be exactly like you playing the keys on certain Parts, and would be just the notes generated by the Arpeggiators on other Parts.

This is not offered as anything but to help you understand what is going on, and perhaps this will help you understand your options. If you wish to trigger multiple Parts of a Montage from an external device, you get optimum results when your controller can transmit on multiple channels, with configurable Zones. If not, your forced to seeking workarounds or fixes.

If you need to take advantage of Montage in MIDI I/O mode = "multi", trigger sounds via Montage and other sounds triggered by an external controller, then you will need to enlist the Zone Master setup to help you configure your setup. Of course, getting a controller that has multiple Zones means you can solve your issue (where it should be solved) at the transmitting device.

Anyway, that's what's different about Montage. It truly is, at times, multiple synthesizers.

Thanks for your input and request. I'm sure engineering is considering all reasonable suggestions, so we'll just have to wait and see. Until then, enjoy. And if you have questions setting up internal sounds and external devices, please post your questions here.

About Scenes:
A SCENE is a specific Montage function. Scene changes do not necessarily cutoff a sound, it depends on what you are doing within that Scene. One of the functions memorized in a Scene is the MUTE status of a Part. The act of Muting (disconnecting the Part from outputting audio) is just that: Quick, immediate and absolute, like a light switch with two conditions. If you are using the MUTE status to seamlessly move between sounds, that's an improper use of the function... more than a problem with Scenes.

Better would be an Assignable Switch controlling XA CONTROL. This is one of several functions designed to transition sounds and remain sonically invisible... seamless. It can switch between sounding Elements without cutting off the currently sounding Waveform but the next press of the key will trigger the newly selected Waveform.

Better would be the AssignKnobs and the ability to "morph" one sound into another.

Better would be using individual [PART SELECT] buttons to transition between sounds within a Performance. The currently sounding Part will continue even after you've activated and start playing a new one. The Super Knob can be used to independently address both the original and the new transition sound (as it can be assigned to control any of the Parts in a Performance).

Scenes can indeed allow you change sounds by memorizing MUTE status but it does necessarily end the current sound, by definition... making it a poor choice if seamless is your goal.

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 6:51 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Stefan,

It may also help to document what your external keyboard is and what features it uses (MIDI OUT) that would take advantage of being able to configure the Montage to assign each part a configurable MIDI channel.

Although it's work you would have to do - you could use the part exchange feature to move the part from one part number to another. Part number (for MIDI receive) would map to (equal the) MIDI channel in multi-mode.

If you had the ability to assign a MIDI receive channel - that's work you would have to do as well. I'm not sure if the scene settings, common-to-part assignable knob associations, etc "follow" the parts when they are exchanged - so this may be extra work to have to "patch up". Maybe someone else can chime in if this is "automagically" handled through the exchange feature. If not, it would be a reasonable feature enhancement request.

Providing MIDI channel overrides to the part # so any arbitrary assignment can be made (even two parts with the same MIDI channel) seems like a good way to ensure all of the scene/assignable knob/etc. settings which connect strings between "global" and "part" remain intact. Also, if you have a keyboard which transmits in 2-4 zones (not 8) - the flexibility to "merge" two (or more) parts to a single MIDI channel in order to match your external controller's limitations may be beneficial. Although you could always slice/dice a PERFORMANCE to fit the external controller - you may (for whatever reason) still want the local control surface (Montage) to keep the PARTs separated.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 03/12/2016 2:00 pm
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