Thanks Gent's.

I appreciate I am a MIDI novice but the crux of my issue is that prior to performing the Montage update I was able to use Chord Pad as intended.

I have composed several completed tracks recording instruments made of multi-parts using Chord Pad consistently and never encountering this problem.

When the Montage stopped working for me as Midi controller i.e could not transmit midi note data when I pressed a key (as described in this thread) surely that should have been strong evidence in support of a change in the Montage's operational behaviour. I have since not been able to repeat the fault but I have not spent much time in front of the board because of other commitments.

I will try the below work around you mentioned as per below and hope that this fixes things.

_ If you want to use a Multi Part Performance, set the MIDI I/O mode to Single in [UTILITY] > "Settings" > "Advanced"

Chord Pad is part of my production work flow and has been for the months since its release on Cubase 8.5 pro (which is fully updated)

Would you recommend reinstalling the update or perhaps dropping back to the previous OS where I had no problems?

I have projects earmarked for a January start am happy to take advice before proceeding to reinstall ect ..

Thanks

I would recommend you contact Steinberg through your MySteinberg Account, since the most recent updates to Cubase did concern Chord Pad specifically. If indeed something did change concerning the Montage firmware update that adversely affects the way you use Chord Pad, I would let them know. Nothing in the Montage firmware update was directly concerning Chord Pad (that's for sure).

I know nothing about the CHORD PAD function, neither how it worked previously, nor how it is not working now. By reporting this to Steinberg, you will force a chain reaction that will get engineers talking - - so that's my recommendation. Please describe for them what did work and what currently does not. And while they maybe clueless about how the Montage works, they are surely on top of how Chord Pad works.

Let us know.

Thanks BM,

I've just reported to Steinberg and am awaiting response. i'll let you know what they advise.

In the interim is it advised to reinstall the previous Montage operating system where I did not experience this midi problem and if necessary also remove Montage Connect in the hope of restoring previous functionality ? I ask because I am just trying to ensure that I wont mess up the board (if that's even possible) by installing an older OS.

Cheers

I can confirm J and BM are right I use this plug-in and love it with my Montage .
The only thing the Arps don't play the same with local control on .
I just updated to 1.20 to see if it help and it kinda did because it seems the super knob is working now with local control off ,
which is great but I can't change seen or sliders 🙁
so I could use some help with that .

@ Mr. Spock,

Here are some things that will always be true concerning Arps:

_ When recording MIDI data to a DAW, LOCAL CONTROL should be OFF. This disconnects the Montage Keys from directly triggering the Montage Tone Generator. This should be the case whether you are recording normal play or recording arpeggios

_ When recording regular MIDI playing use the QUICK SETUP = "MIDI Rec on DAW". Local Control is OFF. Arp MIDI Out is OFF. Signal flow looks like this:

_ When recording Arpeggios use the "Arp Record on DAW" QUICK SETUP. This moves the location of the Arpeggiator so that it is located directly after the Keyboard. Your key presses arrive in the Arpeggiator, the output of the Arpeggiator goes Out via USB-MIDI where it is recorded to the DAW. Local Control is OFF. Arp MIDI Out is ON. Signal flow looks like this:

_ In certain situations incoming MIDI data can trigger the Arpeggiator, if you are not aware of where the Arpeggiator is located. This can present a problem if you've already recorded the Arp data to your DAW. If you use the "Arp Rec on DAW" you should be able to RECORD and PLAYBACK your recorded Arp data without conflict... because the Arpeggiator cannot be reached by incoming MIDI data.

_ added with firmware 1.20 you can Bypass the Arpeggiator by holding [SHIFT] + [ARP ON/OFF] (flashes to indicate Arps are bypassed).

_ Changing the parameter setting for "ARP MIDI OUT" changes the location of the Arpeggiator - until this is understood, it can be a head-scratcher.

Hi BM,

I am getting really stressed out with this whole thing.

As advised I contacted Yamaha and they got back to me earlier this week with the following message which I have tried out today.

''Please initialise the preferences of Cubase by performing these steps:

- Close all programs.
- Open the 'Run' command prompt.

Windows 7: Press the Windows logo key + R simultaneously.

- In the command line of the 'Run' window, enter this path: %appdata%/Steinberg
- Locate the folder which is named the same as your Steinberg program, for example 'Cubase 8'.
- Rename it (for example to "XCubase 8 ") in order to hide it from Cubase.
- Important: If you find folders of previous Cubase versions, make sure to hide or remove them, too.

Next time you start Cubase, a new folder with fresh preferences and default settings will be created - which hopefully fixes the problem you've experienced.

Preferences that you have grown accustomed to and that have taken a lot of time to configure - the key commands (Key Commands.xml) for instance - can be copied from the inactive folder to the newly created active preferences folder at a later point.''

The above has not helped and the reason why I am back to this forum without getting back to Steinberg is because their suggested work around has caused latency (about 0.5 seconds) on the Montage sounds. VST's respond normally. VST record normally using the Montage as a midi controller.

When I initialize the Montage and select an instrument there is significant lag (0.5 secs) when striking a key.

I am then unable to select another instrument using the touch screen. It will simply keep playing the originally selected sound.

Do you think perhaps I should try and reinstall the current OS ? Perhaps the install was not done properly ?

I cannot really see how this is a Steinberg problem. These issues have happened since the update and I have not been advised to reinstall since opening this ticket.

The Steinberg advice has now meant that I have to manually search and locate all of my previous projects which is a massive waste of my time, which has been made all the more frustrating because it has not actually addressed the reported midi problem.

I am convinced the hardware is fine but the actual software is where my issue lies.

Please help.

On a side note If there is anyone out there in two minds whether to buy a Montage I have one for sale search 'Tyron L' on FaceBook and we can discuss a price.

It's hard to tell - you didn't say if the original problem was fixed after the re-install. I understand the new problem of latency - although I'm not sure if that is rendering audio or MIDI where you hear the latency. That aside - is your chord pad feature now working (ignoring latency)?

The latency issue has a few 1,2,3 steps to follow to reduce - but I want to table that for the moment and learn if your original problem is fixed (ignoring latency).

Keep in mind that, for software support, re-install is often a first step meant to get all settings back to "square one". Giving up after the first step may be premature.

I do need a 2nd Montage just to keep in the studio so there is no "down time".

Hi Jason,

The original problem was issues with MIDI. The expected MIDI behavior of the Montage changed after I updated to the latest OS.

Chord Pad did not work as previously when using Montage internal instruments.
Multiple notes played when I pressed a single note - I can't remember if this was specifically isolated to Montage sounds.
There has been an occasion when the Montage failed to respond to keys being pressed and Cubase transport panel did not register any midi information being sent. I had to reboot the system.

After the Steinberg recommended fix there is now noticeable lag and I cannot change sounds using the Montage touch screen. After initialization I am only able to select one patch and then the Montage remains on this patch - i.e. even when I try to change by selecting another sound in a different category.

VST's are working with no latency and Chord pad is also works with VST.

The Montage now has less internal functionality then prior to the Steinberg recommended fix . Any suggestions ?

You sound as though the Montage works well within your set up, once I get it integrated in my studio (again) and complete an outstanding project, I will return to working completely in the box and use high quality VST's for professional sampled instruments. A further analog synth with some good outboard processing gear and I will part company the Montage. Add me up on Facebook and we can do business.

Hi B.M,

So I heard back from Steinberg with the following

''Thank your for your email.

Reseating Cubase preferences is not a work-around, we need to initialise Cubase to factory default for troubleshooting purposes.

If after this procedure you still experience problems you need to contact the manufacturer of your hardware, considering that the hardware was working as supposed before the new firmware.

We can recommend the following article for better real time performance:
https://www.steinberg.net/nc/nl/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/optimizing-windows-for-daws.htm l''

I then went and undid the initialization process they had advised because of the induced latency and my Native instruments library went AWOL even when I tried to manually search for.

I have just fired up the Montage.

Initialized to 'Init Normal (AWM2)'

Went to utility and selected 'Midi' rec on DAW'

I fired up Cubase and opened a new 'empty' project.

I opened up an instance of 'Montage Connect'.

By default Montage connect opened to Midi port '1'

I then created a Midi channel and named it 'Montage'

This opened to Midi channel '1' and there was no latency when i played. Also there were NO double notes played.

The Montage responded as I would expect using Midi port '1'.

However as I know that Montage Midi channel should be set to 'Any' I set it to 'Any'

The Montage works perfectly set to 'Any' channel in so much that there is NO latency or double notes.

I open an 'CFX Concert' in the performance category search.

There is no latency and the performance responds to velocity information.

However when I record a phrase there are multiple notes recorded where one would expect only one. I use the 'rubber' tool to remove and count

2 times of having to press the mouse button until the note has been deleted.

I am able to select new performances and they respond to velocity in formation(how hard I press the key) and try again using 'American 12 string'

to record some Midi info. Again double notes are recorded.

I open an instance of Chordpad and am able to play chords using 'American 12 String'

The performance was velocity sensitive and NO latency. I played and recorded a midi chord data.

The chord pattern played back as expected. Interestingly this time double notes were not played i.e. I could delete a note after only pressing the rubber tool once over the note.

I then selected another performance to see if i can change sounds mid session (previously could not). I change to 'CFX + FM EP' and the sound changes to the selected performance however there is unexpected behaviour.

Even though chord pad is selected only one note sounds at a time and the velocity information is now confused e.g pressing the lowest C octave (Montage 6) is equivalent to pressing the C above middle C.

Pressing the lowest C very gently plays the excepted low C octave. I record using chord-pad and the chord midi data (4 notes of each chord I am using)) IS recorded in the midi editor with velocity information but this information is not recognized on playback. The notes recorded are also played multiple times. In fact there are 4 notes played for every note on recorded on the Midi editor.

The Keys around middle C work sporadically mostly not sounding. If i continually press them (think newbie on a piano) they may play once in every 7 attempts. The last 3 white keys at the right end of the piano work as expected and respond to midi velocity data as expected.

I change the Montage Midi channel to '1' and chord pad works triggering the assigned chords however there is no velocity sensitivity for the gentler presses i.e if i press the key gently no note plays. It seems to play at about average velocity.

I then record a phrase using chord pad with the above settings. The chords play back as expected and sound like the chosen chords. However the lowest keys of the chord on the midi editor have been recorded 5 times whilst the rest have been recorded only once. Hope I have explained that properly.

I open up an instance of Kontact Berlin Piano (VST) and it is velocity sensitive with no latency. I can record a chord sequence using chord pad however the lowest note of the chord sequence is played 4 times whilst the rest are recorded once.

I am not the most midi literate but i think its a problem with midi and Steinberg doesn't seem to think it has anything to do with them.

I have also reinstalled all new OS updates for the Montage.

Please could you advise any more trouble shooting ?

Thanks very much

"CFX Concert" transmits on four MIDI channels simultaneously... this is completely normal! The four PARTS play different Velocity Ranges and/or different Key Ranges so this explains your intermittent results.

"American 12 String" transmits on two MIDI channel simultaneously... this is completely normal! The two PARTS each are a six string guitar and become a 12 string when played combined.

My guess is that the plugin is only designed to work with one MIDI channel at a time.

My recommendation - use "CFX PopStudioGrand" - that's the one PART version of the CFX Concert Grand piano.
Use "Big 12 Strings" or "Wide 12 String AF"

And then document your results.

Hi BM,

I actually started to question whether I had been mistaken in my confidence of how well the Chord Pad worked for me prior to its dysfunction. I went back and listened to a track that I had written based around the C major 7 chord using Chord Pad. I had a copy because I bounced the track to Audio and sent it off as a demo. At that time of writing, I was not sure how to use the Montage multi-timbrally and so I was bouncing each midi pattern / chord progression I had written to audio to free up the Montage for another recording. I was using Chord Pad to write chord progressions then changing performances and listening to the result before committing. I would then route the audio out and record the result as audio in the DAW. During this period I did not encounter any midi issues - It was pretty seamless for me. Currently because of the issues I am experiencing that previously described workflow would not have been possible. I am therefore quite confident that the Chord Pad midi plugin was at one stage working well for me whilst using the Montage internal sounds.

So I went to utility and selected 'record midi to DAW'
I initialized Montage to 'Init Normal (AWM2)'
I fired up Cubase and selected 'empty' project
I created an instance of Montage connect which defaulted to midi channel '1'
I create a MIDI channel called Montage and set the Midi channel to 'ANY'
I play a note and there is no latency. The piano sound is as expected. I can record a midi patter and play back as expected. There are no duplicate notes.
I open up chord pad and play. Only single notes play no mater the chord. Of the C/F chord only the note C3 play. All notes in the chord (F1, E2, G2, C3) are recorded as midi data in the midi edit screen. There are no duplicates i.e. notes under notes.
I remove Chord Pad and I am able to play C1 and all notes as expected in respect to their position on the piano

As advised I load up performance 'CFXPopStudioGrand.
It is velocity sensitive. There is no latency. All keys play on the full range of the board as expected.
I then load the same Chord Pad again. There is no latency. Only a single note of the chord plays. Of the C/F chord only C3 plays.
I record a progression and even though only one note of the chord plays all notes of the chord are recorded as midi data. There are no duplicates - checked by using the eraser tool.

As advised I load up performance 'Wide 12 Strings AF'
It is velocity sensitive. There is no latency. All keys play on the full range of the board as expected.
I then load the same Chord Pad again. There is no latency. Only a single note of the chord plays. Of the C/F chord only C3 plays. Only the top note of ANY chord plays.
I record a progression and all notes of the chord are recorded as midi data. There are no duplicates - checked by using the eraser tool.

I power down the Montage 🙂

Thanks for taking the time to help and hopefully the above gets you Yamaha guys going 'I see what the problem is .. he needs to ...'

Hi BM,

So life has gotten in the way of music but I finally had a chance to fire up the Montage and trouble shoot again.

This time around I was thinking that I am probably having some setting issues so I decided to go to 'System' and select 'Initialize All Settings' and 'Initialize User data'.

I then turned the Montage off and rebooted the PC and then switched the Montage back on.

I played the Montage in stand alone selecting 'Rd 1 Gallery' and played some chords at different velocity. The notes were velocity sensitive and worked as expected.

I then set the Montage to 'Midi record in DAW' , initialized the preset to 'Init Normal (AWM2)' and loaded up Cubase.

In Cubase I created an empty session. I then added an instance of Montage Connect. It defaulted to midi channel'1' and displayed the message 'Online'

Below Montage Connect I created an empty Midi Channel, named it 'Montage Midi' and set the channel to 'ANY'.

I play some chords and each note sounds. There is no latency. It behaves as expected.

I record a midi pattern and play it back. The pattern records and plays back as expected. I use the eraser tool to check for any duplicate notes. There are none. I delete the midi pattern.

Next I load 'CFX+FM EP' performance. It plays as expected and is velocity sensitive.

I record a midi pattern playing chords at different velocities.

The pattern records as expected and the different velocities have also been recorded.

I use the eraser tool tool to check for duplicate notes. I find that every note of each chord has been recorded as midi 5 times.

This duplicate midi note functionality is relatively new to me. Certainly when I first got the Montage late May / early June I did not experience this behavior.

I delete the midi pattern.

I add the midi plugin 'Chordpad' to the 'Montage Midi' channel.

The ChordPad chord is only partially played when the associated key is pressed gently.

I record a pattern playing ChordPad trigger notes gently.

The 4 notes of the chords for C maj, D min & Emin are all recorded as midi data however not all of the notes are active on playback

C major --> Only C1, & C3 are active

D min --> Only D1 and C3 are active

E min --> b2, and E1 are active

Using the erase tool I can see that each midi note is duplicated 5 times. Again, previously I could delete a midi note with one click of the erase tool no matter how many parts in the performance.

When using ChordPad and trying to trigger the associated chord with C1 at normal velocity the associated chord does not sound but instead a note around B2 can be heard.

I remove ChordPad. I then record and play some chords manually. The recorded midi data is velocity sensitive as expected. I playback the midi data and it sounds as expected.

I use the erase tool to check for duplicate notes. Each midi note has been duplicated 5 times i.e. one on top of the other. Can I ask if that is normal behavior ?

Can I ask if there is a way I can run some type of Yamaha diagnostic to see if the Midi data is being handled appropriately ?

If the experiences I have detailed above are unique i.e.. that's not how the Montage is supposed to process midi data in Cubase please could you advise how I could get this flagship synth back

Like how I first had it 🙂

Thanks

The difference between "Init Normal (AWM2)" and "CFX + FM EP" is you are transmitting on one MIDI channel in the former and 5 MIDI channels in the later. This has been how Montage works since it was a bread board. It is able to transmit on Multiple MIDI channels - most synths simply transmit one PART on one MIDI channel.

It is completely normal that when you call up "CFX + FM EP" that each PART sends on a different MIDI channel and since each track is set to record MIDI data naturally it looks like the same data is recorded five times. But if you go through that data you will discover that only the notes within the specific VELOCITY range actually trigger the Tone Generator.

If you are recording a MULTIPLE PART sound (like "CFX + FM EP" ) and your goal is to edit the data as MIDI, you may wish to set the MIDI I/O mode = Single. This will allow you to record and view just a single stream of data in your DAW. You can then EDIT the data as you require -

Press [UTILITY]
Touch "Settings" > "Advanced"
Find the MIDI I/O mode and select "SINGLE", then select a single MIDI channel on which to output the data.

This will send a single stream of MIDI event to your DAW, you can edit the data, then render the track to AUDIO. By rendering your edited track to AUDIO you can simply play back the AUDIO (keep the MIDI data in a Folder and MUTE the data)... use the Audio - now you free up your entire Montage to do more Tracks.

That is the workflow that will work.

the CHORD PAD Plugin does not like multi MIDI Channels, as best I can tell, Try using it with the Montage in MIDI I/O Mode = Single and let me know. I'm sorry I've had no previous experience with this plug-in so I'm not aware of when it is working properly on external input - but I'm fairly certain that it does not like the multiple MIDI channels coming at it.

Big BM,

You have solved my problems!!

I have also upgraded to Cubase 9.0 pro. Let the good times roll.

Thanks very much 🙂